What's the hottest 9x19 +p factory load available?

Riomouse911 said:
Israeli black-tip 9mm, Egyptian 9mm, Turkish 8x57.. those Eastern Mediterranean armies sure liked their ammo hot! :oops:

Stay safe.
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Good call on the Israeli Black-tip, I forgot about that one!

That round was fairly exotic and expensive stuff but seemed to come in in batches and the price would fluctuate based on the quantity imported.

I remember that the local SWAT guys would keep a spare magazine loaded with that for barrier penetration. Us young and impressionables thought that was very cool.
 
N555 said:
That stuff is so rare anymore it belongs in a museum.
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Not true. Many Police Departments use it. Some that switched from .40 to 9mm adopted it recently.

It tends to clog on clothing and is not a reliable expander. But it's a decent load.
 
Steve762us said:
Ahh...dusty cobwebbed memories--was that the"TZZ" stuff??
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I don’t recall offhand the headstamps, but that sounds about right. I just remember being told by the Vietnam-era range master way back then, “That crazy UZI stuff will batter your 5906 to pieces” or something to that effect. 🤪

Who knows if it would or wouldn’t be bad for it, I never fired it in that issued gun. 🤔 ( Maybe I should have, I hated that thing!!)

Stay safe.
 
FWIW, I used to buy as much of the IMI black tip, and some brown or maroon tip, as I could afford, when I could find it. Chronographed velocities were very similar to Winchester and IMI 9mm NATO. Also used the Israeli TZZ head stamped 9mm that came in a square 64 round box. It's ballistics were also similar to current NATO. A few years ago, I got a case or two of the IMI 124 grain NATO. Velocities with the IMI NATO averaged about 3 to 5% more than the Winchester Q4318 NATO, depending on the particular firearm used. I used one or another of the warmer stuff in all manner of 9mm pistols, including alloy framed S&Ws and SIGs, without issue. I no longer know of a source for the excellent IMI NATO. I'm guessing Israel needs it a lot more than I do right now..
 
Riomouse911 said:
I just remember being told by the Vietnam-era range master way back then, “That crazy UZI stuff will batter your 5906 to pieces” or something to that effect. 🤪

Who knows if it would or wouldn’t be bad for it, I never fired it in that issued gun. 🤔 ( Maybe I should have, I hated that thing!!)
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Yeah I recall your unfavorable experience with 5906 ;) ...but it probably would have held up ok. Illinois SP used +P+ Winchester and 9BPLE for
years (decades?) in alloy frame S&Ws, some giving reported round counts over 20K. Just needed periodic recoil spring replacement.
 
Steve762us said:
Yeah I recall your unfavorable experience with 5906 ;) ...but it probably would have held up ok. Illinois SP used +P+ Winchester and 9BPLE for
years (decades?) in alloy frame S&Ws, some giving reported round counts over 20K. Just needed periodic recoil spring replacement.
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Ya, I was being silly. Those all-steel S&W 3rd Generation autos were built like tanks. ;)

Stay safe.
 
I have some Underwood stuff that's +P+, really smokin' hot! In a couple of my sidearms the slide velocity is so high it rips the case heads off. It runs fine in my HKs (except my USP with a Match trigger) and works in my BHP with an 18lb Wolf spring but the stuff is just loaded too hot to be practical IMO. FWIW, I've stopped chasing the hi-pressure stuff and gone to 147gr HST.
 
ECVMatt said:
I'm not sure if you can still find it, but back in the day this stuff was out of control crazy!

I think it was made for submachine guns. I shot tons of it out of my Glock with no ill effects but it was powerful enough to break plate racks at the range.

Good old Egyptian 9mm.

View attachment 1186440
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I still have about half a case of that down in the basement. Had it since the late 80's. Its "hot" and corrosive as crap. 2000 or so rounds of it trashed the upper on my MAC and on the one time I didn't clean right away after I got home late, the next morning, the gun was covered in a light, powdery, bright orange rust.

The MAC ran great on that stuff and you really felt it in your cheek from the stock. It sheard the charging handle off and cracked the tube.

That stuff was made for the Egyptian "Port Said" M45 (Swedish K) SMG copy, hence the 36 rounds to the boxes.
 
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Riomouse911 said:
Israeli black-tip 9mm, Egyptian 9mm, Turkish 8x57.. those Eastern Mediterranean armies sure liked their ammo hot! :oops:

Stay safe.
Click to expand...
Had to kick the bolt open after every shot with my Argentinian Mauser using that ammo. Didn't take too long to realize the problem probably wasn't the rifle.
 
Phaedrus, The Underwood +P+ "rips the case heads off"? Wow! I've used some of the hotter ammo I mentioned in various types of 9mm pistols. In using Winchester, Federal and Remington +P+, I never saw anything like that, no matter the firearm manufacturer or breech locking system. I have used Underwood .38 Super and 10MM in several guns with no issues to report. May have to order some Underwood +P+ to test, in the interest of science;)

BTW, If you wouldn't mind sharing it, what was the bullet weight and type of that Underwood +P+ that ripped off the case heads? Thank you
 
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N555 said:
I would like to know more.
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CMP used to offer it for sale, but they received feedback of over pressure from their customers and they dropped the line. That's what I know of it, I'm sure there are instances of recorded issues.
 
To me, the Winchester 127gr +p+ SXT Black Talon is the "Hottest" 9mm round that ever has been produced to date. Why?
1- They perform excellent, as good as anything out today. Or at least I Believe they do.
2- 127 grains? Sounds like the ideal weight to me. How brilliant.
3- They're elusive and hard to find. I think most people by them to just collect them.
4- If I ever see any in person, I blush just being in their presence, especially if they're black Lubalox on Shiny nickle and come in a Black Box.
Or did you mean something else by being the "Hottest"?
 
Years ago, I shot and chronographed the Winchester 127+P+; got to hunt up my old notes on that. But after Winchester cracked down on commercial sales of +P+ LE type ammo, hadn't seen it available anywhere. I recently acquired a case of the stuff, in the black boxes as shown in Riomouse's photo. The case heads indicate '23 production. Soon as the snow melts, and the range dries out enough, I'm going to try out some of the new stuff..
 
Rock185 said:
Years ago, I shot and chronographed the Winchester 127+P+; got to hunt up my old notes on that. But after Winchester cracked down on commercial sales of +P+ LE type ammo, hadn't seen it available anywhere. I recently acquired a case of the stuff, in the black boxes as shown in Riomouse's photo. The case heads indicate '23 production. Soon as the snow melts, and the range dries out enough, I'm going to try out some of the new stuff..
Click to expand...
Looks like Win still calls it by the identical code of RA9TA. That's the first good sign it's the same spec as the old stuff. Maybe..
 
Palladan44 said:
Looks like Win still calls it by the identical code of RA9TA. That's the first good sign it's the same spec as the old stuff. Maybe..
Click to expand...

It's the same except not colored black. Still hot, still sharp, still low-flash, still doesn't open up or only partially when it encounters more than a layer of fabric.
 
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