Whats with an LEO asking how much cash you are carrying during a traffic stop?

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It sounds as if you work for a Sheriff's Department. My experience is that Sheriff's Deputies tend to be more or less decent human beings than officers in a metro department. The reason may be that SDs tend to be country boys{or gals} and have had a better upbringing.

I tend to agree that the sheriff's departments tend to be more decent. I am not sure it is a rural/urban thing so much as the sheriff has to get elected and he knows he cannot afford to annoy too many of the citizenry or they will find reason to elect someone else.

Any kind of oversight of most municipal police departments from the voters is very far removed, if it exists at all.

OTOH, with a couple of notable exceptions, most state police agencies seem to sport a higher percentage of decent human beings. Not really sure why, or if my sample is just so too low to be meaningful.
 
Ed Ames said "You are seriously behind the times if you don't know this. For the past 10 years or so local PDs have been seizing any amount of cash over a few hundred bucks as "probable drug money"... no charges are needed and it's up to you to fight to get it back... and guess what, it'll cost you years and thousands of dollars to get your property/cash returned."

You can't confiscate drug money unless you can directly link it with drugs...don't know where you heard that but in NY that won't fly.

Asking how much money you have on you is a way to build Probable Cause with a non pointed question....legal and allowable. The more PC you build the pointer your questions may become to develope the proper amount for arrest.
 
Actually, "None of your business" is O.K. Personally, I think the way to answer to any question from an LEO is to do the following:

1. Ignore the content of the LEO's question.
2. Ask the LEO, "Am I free to go?"


If the LEO asks you another question,

1. Ignore the content of the LEO's question.
2. Ask the LEO, "Am I free to go?"


If the LEO asks you another question,

1. Ignore the content of the LEO's question.
2. Ask the LEO, "Am I free to go?"


You get the idea...

Sounds good to me. FLEX YOUR RIGHTS
 
Maybe the cop IS a friend. And maybe he is NOT.

The answer is if he is doing cop stuff he is doing cop stuff and that means he is definitely NOT your friend. He would not be interacting with you in the first place if he was your buddy.

It does not make him your enemy though.

You need to remember that nothing he says or does during an official interaction with him is being done for your benefit and act accordingly.
 
OK, ok, ok. I apologize for offending some of your tender sensibilities. So, the next time I see Homey and his G's cruising through someone's neighborhood in the middle of the night, looking at the fairly high priced homes, I won't get proactive, find a reason to stop them and get their names in the system. No, I'll just smile and wave them on. Surely, I will.


Sounds like racial profiling to me...


You have just turned what was more than likely going to be a warning into felony eluding. Have a good day.

Last time I READ his post, he never said anything about about driving off...


Until then, screw off. And if I get whacked off of this board for saying so, so be it. You folks just take the cake.

Real High Road, and real professional for a police officer.
 
You can't confiscate drug money unless you can directly link it with drugs...don't know where you heard that but in NY that won't fly.
YES, they CAN. You get to contest the seizure in court... if you can afford a lawyer. Strangely, they tend to target those whom they perceive as unable to. It's reminiscent of the IRS "zipcode fishing" during the Clinton administration. IRS agents would target people for FRAUDULENT collections actions for taxes and penalties NOT owed. They'd pick victims by perusing zipcode maps to find people in poor minority communities who they didn't think could afford lawyers to contest the actions.
 
The cop may not be your best friend, but all of them aren't out to get you by a long shot.

Absolutely wrong! It is his job to compile any evidence he can find of a crime. No, he's probably not targeting me specifically, because he doesn't know me. But he is targeting me if he interacts with me because he's required to gather all the evidence he can. I don't take it personal.

What the hell, I'm a JBT, a taillight chaser and a road nazi. I'm brutal. I might as well be a liar and a thief too
Noone EVER implied you personally were a bad guy cop. Why are you so defensive if you have nothing to hide? See how inflamatory that logic is? (And it's used by LEOs pretty often)

I won't get proactive, find a reason to stop them and get their names in the system.
Guilty until proven innocent huh? LEOs should be reactive, not proactive. Unless you have an error-proof crystal ball to tell the future, then you will will end up targeting innocent people AND criminals. Are the innocent people just acceptable casualties to you?

I am detaining you for the purpose of investigating why you committed the traffic infraction that I observed
Doesn't matter why, YOU DON'T NEED TO KNOW my motivation. All you need to know is that you saw me commit a crime, and I'm guilty. There is no reason to get further information from me, except that you are trying to collect further evidence against me. People need to be aware of that.

That's why I get out of my nice warm car to walk through your neighborhoods on foot, to make sure someone isn't trying to burglarize your home.
That's why I go out on patrol when I could be spending time with my wife.
Because I don't care.
Nice try. You do these things because they are part of your job. You have a job because you want a paycheck. Taxpayers are paying you to do the job they don't want to do. If it was such a wonderful job, no PDs would ever hafta pay anyone. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate some of the things law enforcement does for us, but to pretend your only motivation is care is simply an untrue smokescreen.

I usually arrange rides for people who are driving while suspended,
Maybe sometimes you just don't want to book 'em, 'eh Danno?

change your tire for you, in the rain, mud, snow or wind while you sit in my car and keep warm.
It's not about my comfort, so don't pretend it is. My car is equally as warm as yours. It's about the public's safety of me rolling around on the ground on the side of the road. Mine and the other drivers on the road. By maintaining safety you are "doing your job", not "being nice to me". Although you love it when the any media makes you out to be the hero right?

this garbage that paints me--and the other good, honest cops out here--as a thief, a druggie and a LIAR, crosses the line.
Again, noone said you specifically. Why are you so defensive if you have nothing to hide? That seems suspicious to me...I guess we have PC and RS to believe you're crooked. (THIS STATEMENT WAS ONLY SARCASM DESIGNED TO SHOW THE STUPIDITY OF THE REASONING.):rolleyes:

Personally I have nothing against LEOs. I've been treated better AND worse than I deserved. I'll give you guys the benefit of believing that you guys are doing your job to find evidence of every crime you can. But as long as you are trained to "build a case", (and LEOs always will be), than Deanimator said it best:

Here's the bottom line, Powderman:

What's the worst thing that can happen from me assuming the worst about all cops? I can prolong an encounter, maybe even be falsely arrested on a charge that probably won't stick. I might end up suing the city.

What's the worst thing that can happen if I DON'T? I can incriminate myself for something I DIDN'T do. I can end up in jail based on my own words, which the police and prosecutors will cheerfully use against me.
 
OK, ok, ok. I apologize for offending some of your tender sensibilities. So, the next time I see Homey and his G's cruising through someone's neighborhood in the middle of the night, looking at the fairly high priced homes, I won't get proactive, find a reason to stop them and get their names in the system. No, I'll just smile and wave them on. Surely, I will.

Just waving at them and making them know you are aware of their presence could well be as effective at preventing a potential crime as stopping them and deliberately violating their constitutional rights, so everything else being equal, I vote for waving at them.
 
Asking how much money you have on you is a way to build Probable Cause with a non pointed question....legal and allowable. The more PC you build the pointer your questions may become to develope the proper amount for arrest.

And the legal and allowable answer is a dumb look, mouth shut or ask Am I free to go?

Note: legal and allowable to build probable cause======== Police is not your friend.
 
Good cops ask questions that you don't have to answer. A lot of bad guys are in jail because they are stupid enough to answer questions when they don't have too.

There's nothing wrong with LEO's doing a little fishing, as long as it remains within Constitutional boundaries. And asking a few questions during traffic stops is well within Constitutional boundaries.

As pointed out above with a number of clever examples, it is easy enough to politely decline to answer intrusive questions, or to answer in a way that is polite enough but that conveys no meaningful information without overtly seeming evasive.

LEOs have a right to ask about anything they wish, and sometimes they even have a duty to ask certain questions if things seem suspicious but don't quite reach the level of probable cause. A citizen has the right to refuse to talk without such refusal itself being interpreted as probable cause.

In the same way that LEOs should not interpret refusals to answer as some kind of guilt, citizens should not interpret getting asked as some kind of guilt on the part of the LEO. LEOs have freedom of speech too.

Michael Courtney
 
"I'm not a vagrant - However, if I'm receiving a ticket, I will need access to an ATM to pay it."

The cop just learned everything that he needs to know. I'm -not- gonna hit the money belt for a traffic ticket, but since when I'm on the road, I'm usually travelling to matches, etc., I really don't want the guy getting into the back of the van or the trailer, and getting a lot more stuff to ask questions about - Like "why do you have four sniper rifles, 40 pounds of gunpowder, and what's with all these toolboxes?"
 
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OK, ok, ok. I apologize for offending some of your tender sensibilities. So, the next time I see Homey and his G's cruising through someone's neighborhood in the middle of the night, looking at the fairly high priced homes, I won't get proactive, find a reason to stop them and get their names in the system. No, I'll just smile and wave them on. Surely, I will.

Sounds like racial profiling to me...

Actually no. In addition to a car with occupants that seem out of place, you've got behavior that amounts to casing of properties. A car has to drive pretty slowly to get a good look at high-priced homes. Combined with easily observable actions of obviously checking out the houses, this definitely makes for a reasonable articulable suspicion. If this is insufficient for a stop, following for a few blocks will most likely provide a traffic violation to give PC for a stop.

It is much better police work to make the stop and get the names recorded, both to reduce the potential for future crimes, as well as to have some possible suspects if there is a crime committed in the same neighborhood in the near future.

Michael Courtney
 
strings

about that link?
"No arrest is necessary for forfeitures of more than $5,000, as long as the money can be linked to drug activity, said Agent Bill Grant, a DEA spokesman in Washington"

did you miss that? and i gotta wonder about someone gets 654 k confiscated who leaves town and never comes back to make a claim. so far i've not seen anything more than anecdotal about a wrongful confiscation. maybe i missed that one
 
I live in a gated community with many multi-million dollar homes. The kids like to dress in the popular way shown in music videos and TV, and cruise around at night. We have a police station 5 miles away. It's a nice and extremely low crime neighborhood overall, even though I've personally had a car vandalized. Still, I don't want you to "find a reason" to stop and detain people because you don't like the way they look. If they're doing something illegal, then yes. But if they're not breaking any laws, it's objectionable that you will find an excuse to stop and detain people because you don't like their dress and such... as long as they're acting within their rights, they should be able to act freely and not worry about persecution because of it. There are few things even important than safety.


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Can you get in trouble if you tell a cop to **** off?

Nope. You sure can't. Go right ahead if it makes you feel good, I've heard it about five thousand times anyway.

You shouldn't, as it's your 1st amendment right. But you know he will "find a reason" to stop and fine you, if he decides he doesn't like you.

Until then, screw off.

Good to know someone of that temperament is another even handed agent of fairness and justice.
 
On the one hand, many here say, "The laws aren't the cops' fault."

That's true.
That's false. Every time I'm at the state legislature I see rows of police lobbyists and police union lobbyists testifying for or against laws (often, but limited to, against relaxing various gun prohibitions).

As for the money not going to the cop who confiscates it, that's true, only in a literal sense (assuming the cop doesn't take it "illegally). My cousin is an Arizona DPS officer who several years ago was the winner of the DPS Officer of the Year in his district. On his nomination letter his commander wrote why he shoud be so honored. Traffic stops, traffic convictions, drug confiscations, currency confiscations. He was later promoted.

In Arizona the money from traffic fines goes to the general fund. But those same lobbyists go to the legislature every year and tell the legislators how much money they bring the general fund, "therefore -- give us more money."

Rick
 
can anyone

give me a reference or link to some of these wrongful confiscations? not a blog not anecdotal but a real life courtcase and ruling with some detail
 
newspaper article

was a bust it does mention two fine guys who when they got caught with 650 k settled for 500 cash and left town in a bus. i'm finding it hard to feel for em must be my cynical nature
 
Ah yes, "Homey and his friends". A little fear of the Evil Negro should make us all cower. Combine it with a threat that you'll leave us to the tender mercies of Rufus and his band of bloodthirsty subhumans who will do drivebys firing 'gangsta' style, rape our precious White Women and steal everything we own to buy crack cocaine if we don't shut up.

Again, nice try. It's next on the all-time cop arguing with "civilian" hit parade. If you can't buffalo them then threaten them. "There are bad people out there. If you don't do everything I want you to I'll let them have you." If you act true to form you'll be invoking the threat of Terrorists next.

The emotional manipulation is not working. And you haven't actually answered or even discussed any of the serious arguments people have made. Try facts and logic and you might have a little more success. Seriously.
 
The proper response?

When an officer asks how much money you have. Mozambique him...

Two to the chest, one to the head.

After all he is armed, and he's gonna rob you.
When people start to post about killing officers of the law, it's time to close the thread and start removing memberships.
 
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