Whats your go to 9mm load?

[ArchAngelCD]

150gr SWCs from Bayou Bullets over 3.0gr of W231/HP38.

Its a super soft shooter, barely cycles my action and pretty darn accurate to boot. A bit of a warm load (somewhat flattened primers) thanks to the bullets taking up half my case capacity but I can't go any lower otherwise it probably won't cycle.

That's confusing??? How can that load be so light it barely cycles the slide and be "a bit of a warm load" that is flattening primers both at the same time? If the pressures are so low the slide is sluggish the same low pressures can't be flattening primers too.

Your pressures will be way over the SAAMI limits before you see flat primers and if they are that high the slide would be slamming back with excessive force, not barely cycling.

 

[sexybeast]

124 gr. FMJ 4.4 gr. Titegroup for IDPA
125 gr. LRN 3.8 gr. Titegroup for paper
125 gr. LTC 3.2 gr. Titegroup for paper
124 gr. Rem. Golden Saber 4.4 gr. Titegroup for IDPA, paper, and Carry
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Hey Kimbernut; My load for 125 LRN and lead truncated is 3.5gr of titegroup. I notice yours is spread out quite a bit and I was wondering why?
I have found that mass is mass and bullet shape has little effect on light loads like this.
Please advise as that is quite a spread.

 

[Potatohead]

That's confusing??? How can that load be so light it barely cycles the slide and be "a bit of a warm load" that is flattening primers both at the same time? If the pressures are so low the slide is sluggish the same low pressures can't be flattening primers too.

Your pressures will be way over the SAAMI limits before you see flat primers and if they are that high the slide would be slamming back with excessive force, not barely cycling.

I wondered about that post from RuthZep myself, ArchAngel.

Also, You guys are more experienced than I and can make more accurate comments on this but if you're seeing flattened primers aren't you most likely WAY overpowered already?

 

[J_McLeod]

115gr FMJ, 4.8-9gr of 231 at 1.135"

or

147gr Lead, 4.8gr HS-6 at 1.080"

95 gr FMJ, 7.6gr of HS-6 at 1.020"

 

[ETXhiker]

I've been experimenting with a lot of different powders lately - Ramshot Silhouette, True Blue, HS-6, Power Pistol, etc. But when I just want to bang out some range ammo, I usually just load 5.0 grains of Unique behind some 124 gr Berry's. Boring, but it gets the job done.

 

[grogetr]

This is interesting. Being new to reloading I don't know all the differences to all the different components. Maybe add in what gun you are using too that the loads work good in. I would assume that can make a difference Thanks

 

[sbrader]

My plinking load is 4.3 grains of W231/HP-38 behind 124 grain FMJ in my XD9sc. As always, work up your loads for your guns.

 

[kimbernut]

sexybeast, the LTC 125 I'm using is actually labeled LFN by Hunter Supply and if I seat it to my normal OAL of 1.095-1.115 will not plunk into my case gauge or seat deep enough in my Colt Pocket Nine to allow it to fully go into battery. It sits about 1/8" high in the case gauge. I tried for a week to get a response from Hunter Supply. The response I finally received did not address my problem. I began experimenting with OAL and at 1.010 the cartridge bottoms out in both my case gauge and chamber. With such a deeply set bullet I did not want an overpressure problem so I tested from 3 gr. Titegroup and upwards until I settled on 3.2 gr for that load. I have since also used 3.2 gr on 124 gr. LRN and have been pleased with the accuracy and light recoil in both the Pocket Nine and my Sig 228. The BHP seems to prefer full power 124 JHP however.

 

[slim 67]

Welcome LKLive13 I live just 45 miles south of you.
I love unique in 9 mm but I recently purchased a carbine that is recoil operated that
Just is not snappy enough to operate the bolt consistently. I'm experimenting with 231 and title group to see if they work any better.

 

[kimbernut]

LKLive13, Edited original post to include OAL and added another load.

 

[Dr.Zubrato]

124gr LCN 3.8gr Titegroup
I can't remember the OAL, since my load book is about 800 miles away, but I seat the Lee TL-356-124-TC with about two tumble lube grooves showing.

 

[sexybeast]

sexybeast, the LTC 125 I'm using is actually labeled LFN by Hunter Supply and if I seat it to my normal OAL of 1.095-1.115 will not plunk into my case gauge or seat deep enough in my Colt Pocket Nine to allow it to fully go into battery. It sits about 1/8" high in the case gauge. I tried for a week to get a response from Hunter Supply. The response I finally received did not address my problem. I began experimenting with OAL and at 1.010 the cartridge bottoms out in both my case gauge and chamber. With such a deeply set bullet I did not want an overpressure problem so I tested from 3 gr. Titegroup and upwards until I settled on 3.2 gr for that load. I have since also used 3.2 gr on 124 gr. LRN and have been pleased with the accuracy and light recoil in both the Pocket Nine and my Sig 228. The BHP seems to prefer full power 124 JHP however.
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Interesting. My m&p 9 pro and 1911 chambered in 9 would not cycle with 3.2. For me 3.5gr of titegroup is both accurate and will cycle every gun except the 1911 longslide. At 3.8gr the group starts to open up.
I think OAL is secondary and not a primary consideration. Like you found out first the bullets have to fit, then you go for function.
I also have a 228 and Browning Hi-Power. Great minds think alike!

 

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by Rushthezeppelin
150gr SWCs from Bayou Bullets over 3.0gr of W231/HP38.

Its a super soft shooter, barely cycles my action and pretty darn accurate to boot. A bit of a warm load (somewhat flattened primers) thanks to the bullets taking up half my case capacity but I can't go any lower otherwise it probably won't cycle.

As I understand it this bullet takes up so much case capacity that the load with 3.0gr of win 231/hp38 has high pressure, due to the low case capacity that is left after seating the bullet. Remember a SWC will have more bullet length in the case than a regular rn bullet design, since it will have to be seated deeper. Also it's most likely not being shot through a gas operated gun so gas pressure level has no bearing on the action cycling. The velocity of the round determines the cyclic rate. So a heavy round seated deeper means less case capacity which means you put less of a given powder in the case. This means you can only get the bullet going so fast before you over pressure the round. Your pressure will still be up there but the velocity will be lower. Think of it as using a fast for caliber/ bullet weight powder. You still have plenty of pressure but with a lower velocity due to the lighter powder charge of a faster powder. Think about target loads. Light charges of fast powder gives you less velocity and less actual recoiling forces. The area of preceived or snappy recoil is another matter.

 

[Rushthezeppelin]

That's confusing??? How can that load be so light it barely cycles the slide and be "a bit of a warm load" that is flattening primers both at the same time? If the pressures are so low the slide is sluggish the same low pressures can't be flattening primers too.

Your pressures will be way over the SAAMI limits before you see flat primers and if they are that high the slide would be slamming back with excessive force, not barely cycling.

I'm not going to pretend to know. All I know is the primers come out a bit flatter than my 147gr load, but it has very light recoil and only spits the brass out about 3 or 4 feet away into a nice neat pile. Oddly enough I've had a few light charges with the 147 that stovepiped but never a single issue with the 150s. I just assumed it was the fact that it seated so deep in the case reducing case capacity and the fact that my neck tension was through the roof seating so deep (I have since backed my FL sizing die out about a quarter inch so that I'm not swaging the base of the bullets). Granted I haven't stared closely at the primers in a while....let me go see if I can sort out the brass from my last trip and check the primers, pretty sure I don't have it in the To Be Processed bin yet.

Update: Well after comparing stuff I'm almost positive was fired out of my gun to stuff that was obviously fired from a glock that i picked up (rectangles on the primer) they are noticeable flatter and filling more of the countersink around the primer pocket (for the brands that have a countersink), and definitely flatter than stuff I haven't fired yet. Not saying they are filling out wider than the outer diameter of the primer though just to be clear...they are not making mushrooms. Could this possibly be a headspacing issue?

I will bring some of my 147s out with me next time I go out and check against them again.

 

[Lennyjoe]

My plinking load is 4.3 grains of W231/HP-38 behind 124 grain FMJ in my XD9sc.

Shoots good out of our Kahr CW9 as well.

 

[PWGUNNY]

For my M&P fs I load:
124gr plated
4.8 gr unique
1.13 OAL

 

[hovercat]

147gr JHP 3.2gr red dot

 

[LKLive13]

Thanks again everyone for your input... Its interesting to see the varying data among different shooters.

 

[GaryL]

I'm a bit of an oddball with my 9mm pet load.

I was thinking the same thing. My favorite is 124gr plated over 5.2gr of HS-5. About 10 years ago I came across 6 or 7 1lb tins of HS-5 for about $30. I didn't realize it was an obsolete powder then, but this forum was a big help with finding enough data to work up a load.

The HS-5 will soon be gone, so this is a good thread to peruse.

 

[sexybeast]

As I understand it this bullet takes up so much case capacity that the load with 3.0gr of win 231/hp38 has high pressure, due to the low case capacity that is left after seating the bullet. Remember a SWC will have more bullet length in the case than a regular rn bullet design, since it will have to be seated deeper. Also it's most likely not being shot through a gas operated gun so gas pressure level has no bearing on the action cycling. The velocity of the round determines the cyclic rate. So a heavy round seated deeper means less case capacity which means you put less of a given powder in the case. This means you can only get the bullet going so fast before you over pressure the round. Your pressure will still be up there but the velocity will be lower. Think of it as using a fast for caliber/ bullet weight powder. You still have plenty of pressure but with a lower velocity due to the lighter powder charge of a faster powder. Think about target loads. Light charges of fast powder gives you less velocity and less actual recoiling forces. The area of preceived or snappy recoil is another matter.

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Not always. I also shoot a 147 behind 3.5gr of 231 and its rather soft. After loading at least 150k of 9mm brass I can tell you that even with the same brand there are big differences and a flattened primer "may" be a sign of too much pressure but not always. Same at shooting load way over but not having flattened primers.
3gr of 231/hp38 behind a 147gr/150gr bullet is a pleasure to shoot and accurate too, I don't know how much or if the powder is compacted. But 3gr won't cycle my m&p so I bumped it up to 3.5 and it still feels soft but everything works

There is a very imformative thread about heavy 9mm and 231 that is well worth reading. Its a couple weeks old but you should be able to find it.
Ruththezeppelin wrote/started it.

Just found the link :http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=730685
This is some good info if you want to start loading heavy 9mm bullets. Actual hands on info, found it very interesting.

 

[Guilty]

Hornady or Montana Gold 124gr FMJ bullet, 4.5gr W231 or HP-38 powder, CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer, 1.140 OAL, Lee FCD Light Crimp

 

[Rushthezeppelin]

Not always. I also shoot a 147 behind 3.5gr of 231 and its rather soft. After loading at least 150k of 9mm brass I can tell you that even with the same brand there are big differences and a flattened primer "may" be a sign of too much pressure but not always. Same at shooting load way over but not having flattened primers.
3gr of 231/hp38 behind a 147gr/150gr bullet is a pleasure to shoot and accurate too, I don't know how much or if the powder is compacted. But 3gr won't cycle my m&p so I bumped it up to 3.5 and it still feels soft but everything works

There is a very imformative thread about heavy 9mm and 231 that is well worth reading. Its a couple weeks old but you should be able to find it.
Ruththezeppelin wrote/started it.

Just found the link :http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=730685
This is some good info if you want to start loading heavy 9mm bullets. Actual hands on info, found it very interesting.

Thanks for the plug and the info on flattening primers not always being a pressure sign. Perhaps it's the fact that 231 is a bit on the fast side?

Keep in mind there's a big difference between my 147s and 150s in the way I load them. The 147s being a FN have an ogive therefore I can load them to a significantly longer OAL, usually 1.150 leaving plenty of powder room. The 150s are however SWCs so I have to load them ALLOT deeper, can't exceed about 1.110 otherwise they bump into my rifling. Obviously other guns might have a bit longer freebore than my CZ clone (a tad less than .100) and could load longer. However with my loads neither the 147 or 150s are compressed loads, the 150s aren't far off though, IIRC my measurements were showing that I only have about a hundredth or two of air between powder and bullet. As always in the reloading scene YMMV.

 

[Rushthezeppelin]

So I was thinking about it, and granted this is pure conjecture based off my limited knowledge so far into reloading, but I think I might know how you could have a hot load without a hard cycling. Given that I am using 231 which is obviously a decently fast powder, perhaps by the time the case unlocks from the chamber most of the energy has already dissipated and therefore not a ton of residual energy left to cycle the action resulting in less recoil but still enough energy during initial burn to cause higher pressure and flatten my primer out more. Does this theory behind my warm load but soft recoil seem plausible?

Edit: Should also mention that I use winchester small pistol primers although I don't know if that makes a difference considering to the best of my recollection the other loads I've tried with the same primers have not shown as much flattening.

 

[MagicD]

Didn't see it mentioned already,but have had real good results with xtreme 124 Hp or FP and 6.2 gr sr 4756. Very low flash,accurate,and not sharp recoil but full power load.
Fills case about 7/8 full,but not compressed load.

 

[kimbernut]

Flattened primer

If a flattened primer is your only evidence of over pressure I am inclined to think you do not have an over pressure problem at all.
Low power loads can push the primer slightly rearward from the cartridge before it has had time to slam into the breech face. When it does slam into the breach face with the slightly raised primer a flattened primer can result.