Who carries handcuffs?
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Henry Bowman
Senior Member
No cuffs. But I do carry a handcuff key.
Carl N. Brown
Member
handcuffs for self-defense
Proper training to use handcuffs takes hours; handcuffing
is only safe with backup standing by, armed. Carry nothing
that you do not know how to use.
I have known of one case where a homeowner held a burglar at
gunpoint for arrest by an officer, and I believe that attempting
handcuffing in that situation would have been dangerous and
illegal for the homeowner: keeping the burglar subdued at a
distance was safer.
This is like the CCW badge idea: the more you think about it,
the worse it looks. I would assume someone in plainclothes
flashing handcuffs would be a kidnapper or bondage fan.
Proper training to use handcuffs takes hours; handcuffing
is only safe with backup standing by, armed. Carry nothing
that you do not know how to use.
I have known of one case where a homeowner held a burglar at
gunpoint for arrest by an officer, and I believe that attempting
handcuffing in that situation would have been dangerous and
illegal for the homeowner: keeping the burglar subdued at a
distance was safer.
This is like the CCW badge idea: the more you think about it,
the worse it looks. I would assume someone in plainclothes
flashing handcuffs would be a kidnapper or bondage fan.
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
For one reason...plain old ordinary human orneriness...take a look around you. It's everywhere.
As I stated earlier, if the opponent was rational; he wouldn't be in your home to begin with. Expecting rational behavior from irrational people is the epitome of folly.
The originating post in this thread pondered handcuffs as a deterrent. Study deterrence theory as developed by strategists. Notice the frequent caveats about the rationality of the opponent.
You can view physical obstacles such as doors and fences to be deterrents. I view them as filters. They filter out the law abiding, the unskilled, and the apathetic. The people who filter through them are not law abiding, have more skill, and are more determined. But obstacles are not magic talismans. Neither are weapons.
pcf
Member
Many criminals come from places where people get handcuffs put on them, and they're never seen again.
Displaying a set of handcuffs can quickly turn a non violent situation into a "fight to the death," especially when dealing with people from Central America. Don't put yourself in a situation where your attacker has lost all regard for his own life, and his only goal is to kill you.
If you have a surviving attacker, don't try to physically detain them, and don't get between them and an exit.
Displaying a set of handcuffs can quickly turn a non violent situation into a "fight to the death," especially when dealing with people from Central America. Don't put yourself in a situation where your attacker has lost all regard for his own life, and his only goal is to kill you.
If you have a surviving attacker, don't try to physically detain them, and don't get between them and an exit.
In all but a few very limited in home situations I would agree with you.
I believe the best civilian use for cuffs is inspired by something that I witnessed an LEO do, that is very smart. He cuffed the rims and tires on his patrol bike (mountain bike) to the frame (so they coulden't be stolen), in addition to using a standard bike lock to hitch it up.
You're mixing up your adjectives. A rational person is completely capable of committing illegal acts. If the criminal reasonably believes that they can carry out an act that will benefit themselves, with minimal risk of harm, then it is a rational act. It's about the reasoning process, not the set of principles or beliefs that guides the decision.
For example, you could encounter a sociopath that just has no regard for others. They need not be a raving lunatic, and they could easily be concerned with their own well-being. This person could rationally attack you. They might even be rationally dissuaded if you no longer seem like a good target, although I'm not advocating the use of handcuffs to achieve this. And I find it extremely doubtful that the people here have never seen or heard of such a situation. The one that comes to mind is second-hand that I believe I read in gunrag from long ago: the writer was alone in Canada camping in a wilderness area. Approached by two men who struck him as behaving strangely, he felt they were dissuaded by the pot of boiling water he picked up in one hand and a hefty camp shovel in the other. I'm sure I can dig up some other examples if necessary.
This is slightly off-topic, but this discussion has struck me as containing a few contradictions. Handcuffs were discussed as a weapon to be used against the GG, but can't they also be used in defense? Couldn't they replace (potentially illegal) brass knuckles, no cuffing required?
The appearance of being LEO could set off a situation if you're dealing with a really unsavory type. This seems possible, but what exactly is different from the status quo, which involved said lowlife sizing you up, preparing for some sort of assault?
I think that would be like carrying a large maglite for the sake of using it in a means that would be illegal to use a baton for. The cop may see through your claims, then you get "double busted". Locally, some gang members were recently charged with carrying weapons illegally for having baseball bats and golf clubs on them when they went to go "do a job". I doubt they were going to play around of golf or some base/softball. I think you see where I am going.
Last edited:
Roadkill Coyote
Member
Weapon-wise, the worst of both worlds
Jonathan,
edited for clarity, 11:46
Jonathan,
Handcuffs, while they can be dangerous, are not something a wise man would choose to use as a weapon. Think of it like a 1" open end wrench. It is a substantial peice of metal, could be a dangerous weapon. I certainly wouldn't want to get hit with one. but what would you think of someone who chose, well in advance, from many other better options, to carry a wrench for personal defense? Basically as a weapon, they represent the worst of both worlds, potentially dangerous, but hard to use as such, and a very poor choice.
edited for clarity, 11:46
CentralTexas
Member
Roadkill,
I just looked through the thread, could you reference who suggested using handcuffs as a "weapon"?
Thanks,
CT
I just looked through the thread, could you reference who suggested using handcuffs as a "weapon"?
Thanks,
CT
Roadkill Coyote
Member
Edited the above to include the number of the specific post that was quoted, sorry about the confusion.
I would also observe that the original poster put forward the idea of using handcuffs to intimidate someone into going away without drawing anything else. If someone chooses go into a potentially violent confrontation with something in their hand, particularly if they are using it to intimidate, thats a weapon. So the idea of using handcuffs as a defensive weapon has been the constant theme of this thread from the start.
I would also observe that the original poster put forward the idea of using handcuffs to intimidate someone into going away without drawing anything else. If someone chooses go into a potentially violent confrontation with something in their hand, particularly if they are using it to intimidate, thats a weapon. So the idea of using handcuffs as a defensive weapon has been the constant theme of this thread from the start.
CentralTexas;
I've read your posts, and I understand where you're coming from in bristling about the "attitudes" of the LEOs who've responded.
In this case, however, I think their attitudes are genuine. Let me give this example.
From my mis-spent youth, I've come to have appropriate FEAR and RESPECT for things that 1) I don't understand, and 2) could kill me.
One time I was at a jobsite where some guys from the gas company started welding on a live gas line to put a joint in the line. I thought, "man, all that high pressure natural gas, and a welding torch at 1400 degrees. These guys do this all the time, but, y'know, I can't quantify the risks". I stood far away until they were done. Everything turned out fine. But, having told you this, would YOU start welding on a gas line? I just told you it is safe.
Handcuffing is one of the most DANGEROUS things cops do. Have appropriate FEAR and RESPECT when approaching a guy that you could justifiable handcuff.
These LEOs are not talking down to you any different than a gas line welder would talk to you if you mentioned casually that you'd like to run a side line off the main gas line on your street, but to save money or time, you're going to do it yourself.
I've read your posts, and I understand where you're coming from in bristling about the "attitudes" of the LEOs who've responded.
In this case, however, I think their attitudes are genuine. Let me give this example.
From my mis-spent youth, I've come to have appropriate FEAR and RESPECT for things that 1) I don't understand, and 2) could kill me.
One time I was at a jobsite where some guys from the gas company started welding on a live gas line to put a joint in the line. I thought, "man, all that high pressure natural gas, and a welding torch at 1400 degrees. These guys do this all the time, but, y'know, I can't quantify the risks". I stood far away until they were done. Everything turned out fine. But, having told you this, would YOU start welding on a gas line? I just told you it is safe.
Handcuffing is one of the most DANGEROUS things cops do. Have appropriate FEAR and RESPECT when approaching a guy that you could justifiable handcuff.
These LEOs are not talking down to you any different than a gas line welder would talk to you if you mentioned casually that you'd like to run a side line off the main gas line on your street, but to save money or time, you're going to do it yourself.
Two more things.
What would YOU do if you were in a dark parking lot one evening, and some guy came up to you, flashed a gun, tossed you a pair of handcuffs and said "put these on"?
I tell you what, I'm either going to run and get shot in the back or pull my pistol and shoot it out. The chips will fall where they may. There is NO WAY anyone is going to put handcuffs on me while I am conscious that I am not CONVINCED is real life police officer. Evidence suggests that in the best case, you'll end up like in The Onion Fields. In the worst case, think Jeffrey Dahmer. The net is the same. I just prefer to avoid the interim unpleasantness, and I don't think I'd taste good with Barbeque sauce.
Second, I think what PCF is saying, is that people not from this country have a VERY different perception of what happens to you when you're arrested.
Think of it this way. You're in Germany in 1944, and two dudes in full length leather trench coats come up to you and say, "Come with me, I want to have a word with you. Things might get very bad for you and your family". You have nothing to lose, for the most part, in fighting these guys to your own death. Better right there than in a gas chamber in Auschwitz. Most of the world is still like this today, except that it takes longer to die in a Ton-Ton Macoup prison than in Auschwitz.
What would YOU do if you were in a dark parking lot one evening, and some guy came up to you, flashed a gun, tossed you a pair of handcuffs and said "put these on"?
I tell you what, I'm either going to run and get shot in the back or pull my pistol and shoot it out. The chips will fall where they may. There is NO WAY anyone is going to put handcuffs on me while I am conscious that I am not CONVINCED is real life police officer. Evidence suggests that in the best case, you'll end up like in The Onion Fields. In the worst case, think Jeffrey Dahmer. The net is the same. I just prefer to avoid the interim unpleasantness, and I don't think I'd taste good with Barbeque sauce.
Second, I think what PCF is saying, is that people not from this country have a VERY different perception of what happens to you when you're arrested.
Think of it this way. You're in Germany in 1944, and two dudes in full length leather trench coats come up to you and say, "Come with me, I want to have a word with you. Things might get very bad for you and your family". You have nothing to lose, for the most part, in fighting these guys to your own death. Better right there than in a gas chamber in Auschwitz. Most of the world is still like this today, except that it takes longer to die in a Ton-Ton Macoup prison than in Auschwitz.
CentralTexas
Member
"What would YOU do if you were in a dark parking lot one evening, and some guy came up to you, flashed a gun, tossed you a pair of handcuffs and said "put these on"?"
John, the above is a different scenario from a bad guy caught in the act and held at gunpoint I think. The reaction may be the same though....
CT
John, the above is a different scenario from a bad guy caught in the act and held at gunpoint I think. The reaction may be the same though....
CT
CentralTexas;
I think we're on the same page on this one, but just to rehash:
I'm just talking about the flip side of the same coin.
The point I was trying to make is that a "badguy" would likely have a similar, or worse, reaction than you would. Putting himself in handcuffs probably wouldn't be his first reaction.
Also, who knows what could happen. Perhaps a regular dude is talking on his cell phone in a parking lot, when you purposefully stride up to your car, next to his. Your hand is in your pocket, and while you're in "condition orange", you have a pissed off expression on your face for personal reasons. He pulls out his CCW and a pair of handcuffs and says, "put these on, wrist to ankle". Well, you know what you'd do. Why do you think a badguy would do anything different?
Very unlikely, I know. The point is that handcuffs are not deterants.
-John
I think we're on the same page on this one, but just to rehash:
I'm just talking about the flip side of the same coin.
The point I was trying to make is that a "badguy" would likely have a similar, or worse, reaction than you would. Putting himself in handcuffs probably wouldn't be his first reaction.
Also, who knows what could happen. Perhaps a regular dude is talking on his cell phone in a parking lot, when you purposefully stride up to your car, next to his. Your hand is in your pocket, and while you're in "condition orange", you have a pissed off expression on your face for personal reasons. He pulls out his CCW and a pair of handcuffs and says, "put these on, wrist to ankle". Well, you know what you'd do. Why do you think a badguy would do anything different?
Very unlikely, I know. The point is that handcuffs are not deterants.
-John
I have carried handcuffs one time: when a couple guys from our agency (I'm a private investigator) were hired to transport an unruly teen from one behavioral hospital to another behavioral hospital. Her mother hired us and signed power of attorney over to me for the trip. The teen had a history of violence and a very bad attitude. Fortunately, nothing bad happened.
Otherwise, I see no use in carrying handcuffs unless you were LEO or even in some security positions.
Otherwise, I see no use in carrying handcuffs unless you were LEO or even in some security positions.
ZenMasterJG
Member
I've got handcuffs. My girlfriend loves 'em. Trying them on anyone else would probably get me in a lot of trouble. Especially with my girlfriend 
If you're within your right to draw on someone, do so. If not, keep walking, but stay aware. Really i've got no good reason to post, i just wanted to break out the bondage joke.
If you're within your right to draw on someone, do so. If not, keep walking, but stay aware. Really i've got no good reason to post, i just wanted to break out the bondage joke.
American By Blood
Member
Excuse my ignorance, but what is a CCW badge?
A CCW badge is something that "n00bs" buy, and when they wear them, it defeats the purpose of "CONCEALED" carry, letting everyone know you have a gun. You might as well open carry. It's frowned upon because it comes too close to impersonating a LEO. Some look like a US marshal badge. This one is different though:
answerguy
Member
At least it looks like better than mine:
But mine looks good next to my 'official' pilot's wings, that I got when I first flew in 1965.
But mine looks good next to my 'official' pilot's wings, that I got when I first flew in 1965.
American By Blood
Member
Wow. Badges for CCW.
And here I was thinking that in America one of the reasons we have CCW is because we live in a society where you don't have to be from the government to be armed.
My mistake! :banghead:
And here I was thinking that in America one of the reasons we have CCW is because we live in a society where you don't have to be from the government to be armed.
My mistake! :banghead:
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