Why a 22 LR rifle is considered by many the ultimate survival firearm?

[Art Eatman]

Ol' Sneaky Snake is gonna survive better than Mr. Flamboyant Hero. IOW, quietness is your friend. The .22 makes much less noise than any shotgun or centerfire rifle.

A .22 rimfire bullet between the eyes will kill the biggest herbivore you're likely to find. That hit works petty good on Bad Guys, as well, although ambushing from behind is better.

 

[lobo9er]

i agree with art. 1 thought is if you don't want enemies to find you and you still want to eat 22 lr will do the job. couple of boxes of sub sonic 22 lr ammo isn't the worst thing to have on hand

 

[content]

22and1000rounds

Hello friends and neighbors // +1 post 22
#1) If you are surviving along with others, at a point mobility is the issue. You can only store so much food and water.
#2)Mobility means low weight, 22. rifle/handgun is perfect. You might also need to carry water, food, shelter, first aid .....
#3)Ammo is available in several flavors includung shot.
This gives a variety of options, copper to penetrate, hollow points to spread ......
You can store 400 plus rounds in a peanut butter jar for years. I date mine. No primers to seal is a plus.
#4)Keeps you a mobile hornet with a scope attached .
#5)Cost of my Marlin 22.lr was $100.00(on sale with rebate and coupon)/// Cost of the 1000 rounds $50.00/// (plus tax on both)
#6) I placed a pouch on rifle stock that holds four(4) more mags. Two(2) with copper, Two (2) with lead hollow points. The pouch also has a film canister in bottom with seventy (70 ) mixed rounds. That is 120 rounds on/in rifle at all times

Hopefully, by the time the ammo runs out, you will be good with bow and knife, making and using them, or things are back to normal .
For now, in the calm, it makes a great set up for teaching ,plinking or critters on walks.

 

[Tall Pine]

Strawhat-

I wouldnt count on the govmt handing it out, but they might if they want your help fighting a common enemy. Uncle Sam may not be the enemy, it may be a foreign invader after selected nuke strikes on urban centers.

Soldiers will be a major group of peple carrying 5.56 in our country. Logic suggets you are more likely to be able to find some or bargain for some of that ammo if its all around you in other peoples hands. They certainly wont be carrying 7mm08 or 25-06. In a SHTF scenario, any powerful round will work, you just need to find your ammo once your supply runs out. Thats why for pistol only a 9mm will do for me.

 

[twofourthree73]

I think theres only 2 choices...a Ciener or a CMMG. I have the Ciener but the CMMG wasnt out yet. Mine works fine. My buddy has a Ciener too, shoots a lot more than me, and has replaced the firing pin already (maybe 600 rnds maybe). Not sure if that wouldnt have happened with the CMMG one. Very easy fix btw...was not a problem. Pins are cheap and easy to replace.

I think the CMMG is a copy of the Ciener in SS. Id research the 2 and pick the better one.

Spikes tactical makes a conversion bolt as well. It's nickle plated and better than both the CMMG and Ceiner kits IMO. I have one on a dedicated .22 lr AR upper and it's been flawless through 2000 rounds so far. It's more reliable than any 10/22 I've had and easier to clean.

 

[JTH]

Good thread. If you're on the move, you're not going to be able to carry much more than 500 rnds. of 7.62. If you have a secure base of operation the situation is totally different but I believe you'd need these weapons .22 rifle, 12 gauge shotgun, semi auto 7.62 rifle/.223, and either a 9mm pistol or a larger caliber hand gun/s. There was a show with R. Lee Ermey demoing miltary rifles from primative to today's semi auto. He and miltary guest pointed out the difference of the .223 rnd and the 7.62 on melons, cinder blocks and a large target. if you look at the issue of muzzle rise the M-16 is much more stable but showing the damage on cinder block, the .223 penetrated the first side layer but the 7.62 blew almost half of the cinder block to pieces. The big bulls eye target showed where, when fully auto, the muzzle rise on the AK takes away from it's accuracy. I guess the question is, would be do you want to kill your enemy or just take him out of commission? This was a factor in making the M-16, I believe and the conservation of ammo, that's why there was 3 rnd. auto burst, as not to totally freak out and empty you weapon in a fire fight. Portablity of you weapon is a huge issue, if you're engaged on the ground. You won't be carry around 1,000 rnds of either .223 or 7.62. If you can easily covert your receiver to .22 LR and fully auto, it would be very accurate, where you lay your spray down. I'd rather have fire power but both would be great. I hope I never have to find out but I'm ready if the SHTF!! No full autos, I don't want to go to jail!! It's easy to detect full auto by sound, I live about 8 miles from a National Gaurd training facility and I know when they are practicing.
JTEX

 

[Tall Pine]

Full auto is not illegal in many States, just costs a lot of money since there is a fixed number of autos in the pool (no more allowed in the pool since what, the mid 80s?).

Another buddy of mine has a fully auto black rifle and he shoots .22 in it all day long. Very cool to be able to shoot all that cheap ammo fully auto.

I hear you on the firepower of 7.62 but in SHTF scenerio I wont need it in most cases. Just need something to kill another man and medium size game like deer. The .22 for rabbit/bird/squirrel. I doubt I will be assaulting cinder block bunkers and all that out on my own out in a survival situation. Survival to me means laying low and avoiding others, making shelter and catching game to stay alive. If Im going on the full attack mode I likely will have banned together with others and maybe one of them has the bigger 7.62 stuff.

All I want is a light, lethal (to humans), and versatile long gun. I just dont see how you can beat the 5.56 (.223) and .22 combo. How will you manage the weight and ammo for a shotgun, one or two long guns, and a pistol. You're gonna be lucky to travel well with one of each. For me thats a 5.56 rifle (with conversion bolt) and a 9mm pistol (Glock most likely).

But we should have some AKs and big 50 cals out there so I think it is a good idea. I will leave all that for you guys to lug around.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

- The round is seriously anemic, to say the least, against human targets, even more for big game hunting...nevermind wildlife protection if you have to hide in the woods for extended periods of time.

If you have to hide in the woods, you will take far more small game (rabbits, squirrels, ect.) than deer. And a .22 will kill a deer -- with careful stalking and good shot placement. I know, I have done it in my younger days.

And if you're hiding, a .22 is quiet, not like a big, booming centerfire that will let people know "there's someone hiding in that valley."

- You cannot reload....with centerfire cartridges and reloading equipment you have much more flexibility..you could even cast your own bullets.

In your first point, you said "if you have to hide in the woods for extended periods of time." If that's the case, where did you get the reloading press, dies, moulds, powder, primers and so on?

Try this -- take all the stuff you plan to carry with you when you bug out to hide in the woods. Include a press, a couple of pounds of powder, dies, scales, primers and so on in your pack and actually hike about 5 miles into the woods and try reloading.

Then repeat the same experiment with a bulk pack of .22s instead of all that reloading gear.

- The round is not used by the military....something to think about in a SHTF collapse of society scenario...supply could become problematic.

If that's your standard, only the .223/5.56X45 would be satisfactory.

 

[ilbob]

The ability to shoot accurately out past 100 yards with virtually no recoil is a big plus. So is the ability to carry a huge number of rounds compared to other calibers.

In a survival situation, you don't really care all that much about hunting regulations, so shooting birds on the ground with your 22 is OK.

If small game is what you are looking for, a 22 will reliably dispatch smaller critters.

Not a reliable deer stopper, but during a survival situation, head shots might be an option.

 

[saturno_v]

Vern

The "Military use" factor that I mentioned on my post is a downside to the 22 but to other centerfire round as well..just one aspect to consider

In your first point, you said "if you have to hide in the woods for extended periods of time." If that's the case, where did you get the reloading press, dies, moulds, powder, primers and so on?

You could be in a situation where you (and potential friends) hide in the woods with some sort of semi-stable "nest" wher eyou keep your stuff

 

[rangerruck]

because you can actually carry a brick of ammo, in your pants and shirts pockets, that is 500 rounds. if you carry it in cci boxes, they are plastic, and the holders make them still, not open the boxes, and not rattle around.
If you bug out in a car, or truck, you can carry 10k worth of rounds easy, that is just 20 bricks, and that is proly about 50 pounds. Plus if you bought your ammo, say 2 years ago or longer, you bought it when bricks were still 10 bucks per brick, 15 max. 10k rounds, would have cost you about 200 to 300 bucks,
super duper cheap, and would last you a lifetime. Or at least until you killed all the Zombies...

Now then, the weapons; most 22lr rifles are about 5 lbs or less, several of them can break down in 2 pieces. So we are talking easy, and light carry. Your super duper hardcore survivalist, will choose a stainless steel, long bbl pistol or revolver of some sort, since really 6 to 10 inches on the bbl, will not slow down the round that much. And so then, a 6 inch pistol, can be easy to pocket or holster carry, again, very light, most pistols, even heavy bbl stainless ones, are 2 lbs. , or less.

If you have ever been in the military, or hunted in some thick woods, you allready know that
F!@$ You vines are everywhere, and even the slightest bbl, over 12 inches long, is gonna get hung up in the F/U vines in front of you, and slow you down , and frustrate you, and totally piss you off, and mentally play a monster mind game with you after only a short while, so being able to pocket or holster carry, while moving through the woods, is a darn fine thing.

 

[dispatch55126]

I've been thinking about getting a Ruger MKIII hunter as a survival tool. You get the advantages of a .22lr in something small and compact enough to where you don't even notice it's there. A 6" barrel'd pistol will be accurate enough to take small game out to and past 50 yards. If you do hunt larger game, you'll need to bring them in as close as a bowhunter but that's no big deal.

 

[lefteyedom]

22 and a 44 mag.
A 16" barrel 22 rifle, with silencer, scope and backup iron sight is about perfect as a tool for feed one's self. Back this rifle up with a 44 mag pistol and all the bases are covered. A 22LR can kill squirrel, rabbit , birds, deer, CCCP soldiers on guard duty (sorry cold war flashback). The 44 mag can kill bears, elk, moose, deer and commie bastards that are beyond the range of a 22 rl.
Throw in a leatherman, 5 inch buck knife, zippo lighter, metal cup and you are set what happen in 2012.

 

[OhioChief]

I think you should have multiple arms. I have a .223 AR, 12ga, .40 & .357 pistols & 30-30. That being said, I also have 2 reliable .22 semi-autos for these reasons. For very little money I've stocked up 10,000 rounds of .22LR and will continue to buy them every coulple months. It's also great training for a cheap price. And (God forbid) we have to arm a lot of people, I'll be able to hand off 2 Semi-auto for someone to use. Small or not, you don't want to be on the receiving end of several .22LR rounds. Balanced Arms. They all have a role to play.

 

[Tall Pine]

I agree with Ohio, and a lot of other posters, that right now multiple weapons are great and are advised. You can pick which ones are best for the situation. I totally agree. But I think the question about the .22lr was asked in the ultimate sense, the most desperate and hard core situation you can imagine.

I simply suggest you all be prepared for the worst case scenario. Think along these lines...you are alone, no more car or moto. The gas is gone. You have driven and made it to your survival destination but its now time to set out on foot to flee the desperate and dangerous situations you left behind. Lets say its in the woods or the mountains. You have a ton of stuff in the car and now you have to move into the back country. For those of you with kids or other dependants your job is a lot more complicated, anxiety ridden, and important.

You will now be forced to decide what to take. Hopefully you have thought about it and have a head start on this thought process. There are a lot more important things to take than multiple weapons. Tarps, shelter items, warm and cold clothing options, utensils, tools, all the stuff no one is talking about now. You might be able to start your journey taking a few long guns, I agree and would probably try doing the same rather than just leaving them behind in the car for my enemies to sieze. But if you have to travel far enough, you will likely have to ditch some of the weapons and pick just one long gun. And this leads us to the question I think that was originally asked, which one is the best and/or is the .22lr the best survival weapon.

And this is where you can get your 2 for 1. Take the AR15 in 5.56/.223 and the conversion bolt to fire the .22lr. One long gun, two ammo choices. There is simply no better one-gun selection in the long gun format, IMHO. You can shoot big and shoot small. Shoot loud and shoot quite. You can defend and kill; you can hunt and eat. You can move swiftly because you have one light and accurate weapon with two cartridge choices that are also very light and plentiful.

In a worst case SHTF scenario, you MUST refuse the temptation to think you can bring multiple long guns. You will be ill prepared and may make the wrong decision in haste. You may end up captured or starving and kicking your hind end for leaving that ultimate long gun behind. Lord I hope it never comes to that but I know which one I'm taking when I have to choose just one.

 

[1911Tuner]

For a pure survival thing...in which we play the role of Art's Sneaky Snake...and multiple calibers are desired...the Handi Rifle would be the cheapest, most sensible route. One receiver and several barrels in various calibers would also make your bugout kit less cumbersome. Every pound saved is a few more rounds of ammo or other important stuff...like food and material to start fires with.

One in .22 LR...suppressed would be good. One in .44 Magnum...also suppressed, with 50 rounds of sub-sonic ammunition/50 rounds in the Snot Knocker class One in .30-30 because the ammunition is so plentiful and widely available. Or one in .308 caliber...for large game, etc...and because ammunition is also plentiful. For the .22 caliber...500 rounds should be sufficient. 100 rounds for each of the others and another 50 for your sidearm of choice and you'll do okay if you...

Lay low...stay away from firefights and unass the AO if one starts in your vicinity. Gunfights are bad JuJu. Avoid'em if at all possible.

Yeah. Suppressors are NFA items and illegal to possess unless one has the proper paperwork...but if it gets so bad that people are takin' to the hills, and anarchy reigns...it'll pretty much be a moot point.

(Or a "mute" point. Mute...Supressor...Get it?)

 

[ms6852]

I have attended (JOTC) which is Jungle Operations Training Center in Panama and based on my own personal experience given a choice in a weapon the 22lr is at the very top of the list. This round will penetrate a inch plank of pine at 200 yds and I can consistently hit 3 inch skeet traps at 230 yds. So I know I can hit any bighead sucker in the head consistently and punch their lights out. Can be made to be very quiet where game will not be scared away and you have plenty to eat with.. Now given a choice between a rifle and a large hunting knife in a survival situation whether in Africa or Alaska regardless of the dangerous wild life I will always choose the knife.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Up through the North West and on into Alaska the lowly .22 rimfire is considered 'The Work Horse of the North'....

 

[Joe Demko]

Choice of weapon is mission-driven. Survivalists and soldiers are not the same thing. For survival, the .22 is first choice.
For insurgent warfare, there are better tools.

 

[STRONGARM5791]

Well, you can carry alot of ammo. It's not that heavy. It's much quieter that a 338 Lapua. You can shoot what you can eat in a 1 day period, with one shot. The chances of finding more ammo is very high....

 

[Pony Express]

frankly i see traps as more useful in a SHTF situation where eating is priority #1. .22 is great for killing animals, but you can set many traps at once, and use them again and again, and save your ammo to protect what your traps yield. Thats why I buy bulk .223 instead of .22 when I have money burning a hole in my pocket. Trap the little critters, shoot the dangerous ones, and lay low (like everybody else has said).

Just my 4/200ths of $1.

 

[sarduy]

a good survival would be...

1. bolt action 22lr with 100,000 rounds ( it will last you a lifetime) if only shoot to kill.
2. 100 meters of rope.
3. a good machette and a big knife.
4. a few fire starter
5. a few good first-aid kits
6. compass & laminated map of the region
7. a survival manual and a strong fishing line (good for fishing & stitches)
8. a lot of pain killer (tylenol, advil, excedrin)
9. binoculars or scope
10. a bible (if you dont believe in god, read it as a story.)

 

[southwest1]

Great post...

Let's get down to it.

Having lived in Washington, Southern Cal and Arizona for many years I can relate to much of what has been said..

The truth is the number one thing you need for survival above all else is drinkable water. People and animals will congregate and fight over water.

If SHTF, life won't go back to the cave man days. Not enough land and too many people for that. Long term survival, especially in the urban and suburban areas will involve farming and getting along with neighbors.

Few will have the ability to run to Alaska and live off the land. Of those that do, many will perish from exposure as stated in a post above.

I would bring a .22 with a lot of hollow point rounds, a shot gun and a center fire rifle., the later two for protection. More importantly I would bring water and a shovel, fishing supplies, a knife, vegetable seeds, a good saw and a sharp knife.

Most people won't run off into the night on foot. They will drive, so load up the vehicle.

 

[C-grunt]

I am one of those people that believe a .22 rifle is the best survival tool. For me, I have a wife and baby daughter to worry about. I dont plan on getting in any firefights. Im all about escape and evade the bad guys. If some corner me I will use ambush tactics. The only time I would be engaging hostile attackers would be in a no other choice scenario.

Ive seen what the .22lr can do on the job. While its obviously not a powerhouse it still has enough oomph to penetrate a chest cavity or a head.

Also most likely the "attackers" are probably in as bad of shape as you are. You surprise them with a 1/4 inch hole through a lung, their priorities have just shifted.

Plus hopefully I will have at least my wife and maybe a friend with me as well, so thats another shooter on my side.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/var22lrrifle.html

Look at these shots. At close range they pretty much all pass or come close to the FBI standard and expanded to .30+ caliber. At a longer distance I would expect little to no expansion but more penetration. Again its no 30-06 but its definitely nothing to sneeze at and will easily kill you.

 

[batmann]

By far, you have a better chance of shooting small game than you will of shooting a Deer. As a true 'survival' round, it is probably at the top of anyone's practical list.
Water, shelter, food and a good knife are at the top of my short list followed by a gun.