Why are 7.62x39 not common in bolt action rifles?

[jimmyraythomason]

Do you want something that will shoot better than your average norinco sks?

I'm not interested in a bench rifle (else I'd stick with one of my other guns). I want an economical BOLT ACTION rifle that is chambered in a mild cartridge that my grand daughters can hunt deer and plink with and use the 1000s of rounds of ammo that I already have. Hunting accuracy i.e. sub 2" is acceptable.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Then buy any old modern economy grade 223 or build a x39ar for not much more $$ like I did

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-405210.html

 

[Paul7]

The CZ 527 is interesting but I wonder why for what is supposed to be a compact rifle they put a gigantic stock on it.

 

[390ish]

Cz makes a youth version with the small stock.

 

[Swampman]

For under $400 these look kind of interesting.

www.centuryarms.biz/proddetail.asp?prod=RI1975-N

I've only seen a couple in person and I wasn't at all impressed with the finish on the wood, but the metal fit and finish looked pretty good.

I may pick one up and see what a few hours sanding and some Tru Oil does.

 

[armoredman]

I am quite fond of my little bolt action 7.62x39mm carbine., even if people can't quite figure out what it is.



It's first advantage to me was that it has a detachable 5 round magazine, (possibly going to get a local gunsmith to see about fabricating a 10 rounder for grins and giggles), and of course, the custom stock with the spare magazine in it. Sorry, one of a kind, and the inventor is not taking any more orders right now. More ammo is a plus to me, considering the areas I hunt can sometimes have some pretty dangerous two legged predators.
It's light, handy, and easy to carry as a camp rifle, in case you're just going on a non hunting trip.

Like it's been said - it's just plain fun to shoot.



It can be accurate, even for a fat old duffer like me.



This is a 200 yard group on my steel target with Berry's 125gr plated bullets.



One of my favorites, a 110 yard standing group.



I usually plink at my steel target at 100 yards, and usually hit him, which annoys the guys with the scoped rifles of exotic flavors and huge scopes who can't seem to hit...or the Tactical Tmmy crowd who shoot at dueling trees with AR-15s, bipod mounted, scope on, at 20 yards. No, I'm NOT kidding.

BUT, lest you think I am blowing hot air, I'll let a little wind out of my own sails with a video i shot of a bad day with the 527M/CSR over a year ago. is OK, I can take a little ribbing, and I'm honest about what I can or can't do.

https://youtu.be/O4W2j2FBKs8?list=UUanwe6BqjwvGZuZ1Vtn7NUQ

But right down to it? It's economical for me. I reload and cast my own bullets, shown here patriotically loaded.



I don't shoot more than 200 yards though I have gotten a good group at 300 yards once. I shoot iron sights can't find a scope I like, and a red dot just looks stupid on this little rifle. It's fun, fun to shoot, and can put a hurting on most every game in Southern Arizona if I so choose, with the loads I use.

if you don't want one, that's OK, beauty of diversity in a very real sense. 7.62x39mm is hugely available in surplus loads, which I don't use, only my reloads, so that argument is lost on me - my Wolf and Silver Bear is for the vz-58.

 

[silicosys4]

I picked up a Remington 799 a while ago on a whim. It's basically a zastava mini mauser in an overly chunky stock. I thought about getting rid of it, and looking for a cz, but I picked up a bunch of brass for it and will probably end up buying a mold or two and start tinkering with some reloads first.

I do like the idea of a small action bolt gun in an intermediate caliber. I reload and cast, and I like that I can get close to or even exceed full factory velocity with cheap home-cast bullets. 2550fps with a 115gr hardcast is pretty fast for a cast load.

 

[Inebriated]

^^ You just like arguing ^^ Why not answer the question instead of picking a fight?

I'm you perceive anything that you don't like as a "fight." If you have a problem with me, PM me or put me on your ignore list.

Saying no one makes a 7.62x39 bolt gun because it's a weak cartridge is faulty logic, as evidenced by the continued production of everything "weaker", or marginally more powerful, than .308.

 

[armoredman]

Fastest I've driven a CAST bullet in this caliber is about 1,900 FPS. 2550, that's burning the candle pretty bright for a cast boolit - do you coat or traditional lube?

 

[M1key]

Not to be outdone by armoredman's cool bolt action carbine (that looks like it came from Planet of the Apes--LOL), I thought I'd show pictures of mine... j/k

Stolen from Tire Irons website: http://tireironscorner.blogspot.com...nov-or-michael-kalashnikov.html?view=snapshot

The ASSKRAKINOV

M

 

[Swampman]

Originally posted by: M1key
Not to be outdone by armoredman's cool bolt action carbine (that looks like it came from Planet of the Apes--LOL), I thought I'd show pictures of mine... j/k

Stolen from Tire Irons website: http://tireironscorner.blogspot.com/...?view=snapshot

I promise I'll never hint that a Zastava M85 is an ugly rifle again, if you promise to never post pics of that "rifle" EVER!

I think my retinas may have suffered permanent damage just from a quick glance at the thumbnails...

 

[M1key]

That's all Congress will let us have someday. I thought the story about SF recruiting an Afghani soldier to test fire it was funny...

M

 

[ugaarguy]

I think you guys are missing the point.

My CZ 527 Carbine is just plain fun to shoot.

Loaded with factory rounds, my homebrew 155gr cast bullets at 1750fps, or downloaded to 1100fps using pistol powders, it's easy on the shoulder and super quick handling. Plus the trigger is fully adjustable for set, creep, overtravel and take up.

Ohh, I get it. The reason the CZ 527 is so quick handling is that it's a true micro action. The Western manufacturers aren't going to tool up to build a micro action bolt rifle for limited sales of limited calibers. At best they'll stick 7.62x39 in a standard short action that loses the handling characteristics of a micro action. Those actions can chamber .308 Win, which can also be downloaded to the levels you describe.

I'm not interested in a bench rifle (else I'd stick with one of my other guns). I want an economical BOLT ACTION rifle that is chambered in a mild cartridge that my grand daughters can hunt deer and plink with and use the 1000s of rounds of ammo that I already have.

Jimmy Ray, the internet (price searches at slickguns.com) tell me that a CZ 527 like Chris In VA has currently runs $675-$700 shipped. That's the same price range as a Ruger 77/44 or 77/357. The Ruger has their standard trigger in a stainless steel barreled action set in a plastic stock. The CZ gets you a walnut stock, blued steel, and that sweet 4 way adjustable trigger. One could argue that the CZ is economical by comparison. The Ruger also demonstrates that it's not economical for a Western manufacturer to tool up for a micro action.

However, there's still the Zastava M85 Mini Mauser in 7.62x39. At $373 shipped it looks pretty economical. Maybe someone who has one of these rifles will come along and tell us about it - specifically if its worth the asking price.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

However, there's still the Zastava M85 Mini Mauser in 7.62x39. At $373 shipped it looks pretty economical.

I do like the looks of the Zastava but I've read reports of extractor failures and the difficulty of finding replacement parts (I think Sako extractors are compatible?). I could have traded for one locally just last week but the guy only wanted handguns and I didn't have any I was willing to trade. Still, all of this would be moot if someone made an economical barrel (are you listening Savage?) for the Savage Model 10 et al. Again, I don't like the CZ 527 because of it's magazine.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Because most American want and expect more power in a bolt-action hunting rifle.

7.62x39mm drops like a rock beyond about 250-300 yards, and is marginal on deer out to 150 yards. Most in the US want more, at least nowadays, hence the great popularity of .308, .30-06, .300 Win Mag etc. etc. deer rifles. .30-30 still has it's following, but that's a lever gun and is better suited to "brush gun" use.

 

[ugaarguy]

Again, I don't like the CZ 527 because of it's magazine.

Well, CZ does offer flush fit magazines for the 527.

Still, all of this would be moot if someone made an economical barrel (are you listening Savage?) for the Savage Model 10 et al.

I don't think that's ever going to happen. There's just not enough demand to justify mass production of 7.62x39 chambered bbls to go on bolt action rifles with longer actions that will easily handle .308 Win and the like.

 

[Pointshoot]

I considered a CZ527 in 7.62x39 at one time. (I have AK and SKS rifles in that chambering. I also have CZ rimfire and centerfire bolt rifles and am a big fan.) But, when it came down to it, there was no role for such a rifle that wasn't easily covered by something I already have. IMO this is a great round in a semi auto defensive rifle. I have other rifles in all the different action types that can do what this rifle would do, - for me anyway.
That said, at one point I was ready to ignore all that because I was curious to see how well the 527 could shoot cheap Eastern Bloc ammo. In the end, I still passed it up because I didn't like how the magazine sticks out. I could be wrong, but the only flush fit 527 mags I've come across are for one model in .223.

If I got one free or for an impossible to turn down price, I'd go for a 527 in 7.62x39 just to try out. But there are too many things I could use more now to put the money out for one. Even a 'gun nut' like me has to ask himself " Do I really need it? What can it do that can't be done with what you already have? Can the gun/ammo/reloading budget be better spent on something else ? "

 

[sawdeanz]

I'm surprised myself that the resurgent interest in scout rifles hasn't already led to a micro action in the U.S. especially with all of the other AR platform calibers like 300 blackout, 6.8, etc that would benefit from that. Someday I want to build a scout-ish rifle and the more and more I think about how to meet the weight requirement it might make sense to sacrifice the full power requirement and go with an intermediate caliber which should still meet the ballistic requirements of most of the scout rifle intended uses.

Then again with the success of the ar-mag fed Mossberg rifles, I am surprised there isn't an ak mag version yet in 7.62

 

[jimmyraythomason]

I don't think that's ever going to happen.

Nor do I.

" Do I really need it?

I've never used that as a criteria for ANY gun I ever bought.

What can it do that can't be done with what you already have?

Not a darn thing but that's not the point.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I wish CZ would make a proper scope mount for the 527 and offer 10-round mags, heck, cut a stripper clip slot for an SKS stripper clip and I'd buy one!

 

[Garrobo]

Easy way to

get over this idea is to buy a chamber insert that goes from .308 to the M39. Be sure to get the shell extractor as you'll be changing back to .308 shortly. It's not much more powerful or useful than a magnum pistol caliber.

 

[TimSr]

It was designed as a military cartridge for use in military auto and semi-auto assault rifles when the tide of scaling down small arms ammo began. While it has become popular as a short range deer cartridge, mostly because of an abundance of very cheap rifles, (not so cheap any more) it has never considered to be exceptional for any sporting purpose, or particularly accurrate, and there is very little demand for a bolt gun chambered in it that there is not another cartridge that performs better and is more versatile. It's often compared to the 30-30 limited to lighter bullets, but then, how many 30-30 bolt guns are out there? Some people take on the personal challenge of doing what can't practicvally be done, and are quite successful as in some of the previous posts, but for Joe Average, the 7.62x39 is a semi-auto range toy, not a serious bolt gun sporting rifle.

 

[fireman 9731]

Here is a group fired from my CZ 527 shooting cheap 122gr FMJ TulAmmo. With a cheap fixed 2.5x power scope, at 100 yards. I was prone and using a bipod.
The people that say x39 isn't accurate and the CZ's can't do anything are full of baloney!

 

[Don357]

There is no comparison between the 7.62x39 and 7.62x51/.308. The x39 is more comparable to the .30-30/7.62x51R in power and performance and there aren't many, if any, bolt guns for it. There were a few pump actions from Savage a while back, but not recently. I wouldn't mind seeing a x39 lever gun though.

 

[highlander 5]

I had a Zastava/Remington 7.62x39 and after owning it for a month the extractor broke and there were no replacement parts. Fortunately the shop I purchased it from took it back and used the credit to order a CZ. BTW the action didn't look like any "Mauser " action I've seen.