Why are people so passionate about 1911's?

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Most of my firearms exposure was hunting rifles/shotguns and revolvers. When I was about 13, my dad's best friend (who I call my Uncle) brought his Colt Government 1911 to shoot in our back yard with my Dad and his Python. I thought the 1911 was one of the coolest guns I'd ever seen. I didn't shoot either of those guns, and memory tells me that I didn't shoot a handgun until I bought my own, as a 21st birthday present to myself.......it was a stainless steel Colt Government Model. I still have it and shoot it every now-and-again. Now, though, I have six 1911s and am always looking for a good deal on another.....I think a Colt Combat Commander in 9mm will be my next one, though. I don't know what it is about the 1911 format, but I've loved them ever since seeing my Uncle's when I was 13. I stuck with them even during the periods of time when the 1911 and 45ACP weren't "cool". TO me, they'll always be beyond "cool".
 
First, the history of the gun. The fact that it served the US military in two world wars and beyond is a big part of its appeal.
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I can't argue that. There are plenty of guns that garner this appeals for the very same reasons. M16/AR, Thompson, AK, MP5, you name it.

Second, it's feel. The grip, its pointability and the recoil is not bad for such a large round as the 45ACP.
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Again hard for me to argue with. The one that I shot was very smooth and very comfortable, even considering it was a double stack and stock.

Third, it is a simple arm and easy to break down and work on.
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Here's something I can argue. It is not an easy arm to break down nor work on. How many people have launched their recoil springs across the room? That little damn tab on the take down lever you have to push in with a small screwdriver on reassembly is enough to make the Pope swear. I can field strip my XD in 5 seconds, you couldn't get the slide off a 1911 if you were possessed by John Moses Browing himself in that amount of time.

Fourth, it is easy to modify to whatever task the shooter is after, from a range queen competition gun to a tactical police or military arm or home defense gun...the 1911 can be modded to more extents than any other pistol, period.
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Pretty much. There isn't a more versatile pistol frame out there. Period.

Fifth, it is a fairly accurate pistol and has a very crisp trigger. No double action pistol will ever have a let-off like a M1911 trigger...never. The trigger can be set really light for competition or heavier for police work.
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True, but just about every popular pistol on the market today can be adjusted for almost the exact same feel. You might not duplicate it, but you can get pretty close.

Sixth, the 45ACP cartridge. Yeah, you can get the 45ACP in a Sig or other automatic, but only the 1911 allows for infinite adjustments/alterations for the shooter and the great trigger.
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Some brands are starting to catch up. You'll never customize them to the extent you can a 1911 that's for sure, but many are offerring customizations that are close. The funny thing is watching Rob Leatham shoot just as well with is XD as he does his 1911.

Seventh, people will poo-poo this, but I have found that the 1911 can be very reliable in all sorts of environments if it is set up properly. Most people that swear the 1911 is not reliable took one from the box, had a few jams and never sought out HOW to properly set up a M1911 for reliability. My 3 1911s have all been slightly tweaked and are very reliable pieces. Making a 1911 reliable is not complicated or expensive, either.
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I don't think you will find people who poo-poo this, but people like me who flat out think that it should be reliable out of the box. People don't want to buy a $600-$1000 pistol only to have to modify it into reliability. Most popular polymer pistols of today will offer this out of the box at about half the price of your average 1911. Glock, XD, Taurus, Sig, you name it. They all run great out of the box and don't need modification to hold that reliability.

I would love to see someone take a stock 1911 through the reliability tests people have subjected Glocks and XDs to. I honestly don't think they can pass that test out of the box.

And above all, with these great polymer guns, I don't have to deal with hammer bite. :neener:

But then again, the reason I won't own a 1911 are the same reasons I won't own a Harley, so there is some truth to the above statement.
 
Yeah, what all has been said.

As designed by JMB , the Gov't Model of 1911, amongst other unique qualites thoroughly thought out by JMB in design -

A tool unto itself.

Remember the original criteria for this combat weapon. A soldier could take this combat weapon totally down without the use of any tools, remove mud, snow, sand, you name it - clean, inspect, and maintain in the field without the need of any tools.

Besides being "pretty neat" - affords a person, in the event the need of a combat weapon in harsh conditions, for say even Daily CCW, Serious Situations if matters go South, BOB , and many other applications - not many firearms can replicate this "pretty neat" - but also very well though out design.

Steve
 
People are passionate about 1911s because they long ago achieved "cult" status. The comparison to Harley's is very apt. People get caught up in the mystique and it becomes self-perpetuating. Nothing wrong with that -- devotion to a hobby is perfecly all right with me (I own forty guns). 1911 fanatics sometimes make the style an end in its own right instead of pursuing the true merits of the firearm. When people feel this way there's no talking to them, they know what's right and further discussion is meaningless.

This not to say that the the gun is without merit. It is a brilliant design that has been useful and popular for quite a long time. It will be around forever in one form or another. It shoots the classic Big-and-Slow cartridge -- 45 ACP. As far as impact on history goes, it one of the most significant handguns ever. When I started collecting guns I knew from the start that I would have to get a 1911. Which I did, and I love the beast.

But it is not the best gun in the world, no matter what the 1911 fanatics say.

I guess I'm gonna get flamed now :)

Bill
 
How far from the truth???

One difference, though. The Harley is pretty well dead in all, but flat track racing, unless you call drag racing, racing. Even there, the fast Harley isn't OHV based, it's DOHC water cooled.
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Uh, you know not what you speak, sir.

I recall being in Byron's shop in Trinidad, CO., some time before he moved to Indiana. The prototype he showed me was a TWO valve motor. Since he's moved to Indiana and developed and raced the motor, I can assure you it's still only a two valve per cylinder motor. They are running (RINO) a "V-Rod in name only... :)

http://www.bikersmag.com/html/harley_news.html

If you go here:

http://www.dragbike.com/dbnews/anmviewer.asp?a=1933&z=18

and page down near the bottom you'll see the bike with a #1 PRO plate on it.

Look for the NHRA Pro Stock to really heat up this year. Byron's building Suzuki motors again, in addition to the faux HD V-Rod. The "Buells" are based on S&S motors.
 
Handling a pre-war commercail Colt Government model will answer these questions...

For a powerful auto, it's small... all steel means it can be skinny, unlike a polymer wonder-gun.

If you have long fingers the Colt fits your hand like a glove.

Approaching a century of service... that in and of itself is pretty cool.

To heck with tuned -up tacti-cool serrated front straps and laser rails and optical sights... the 1911 IS the hot-rodders gun because the patent is in the public domain... and everyone and YOUR brother in law makes aftermarket parts for it. Custom builders have been around for a long time.

Take a stock pre-war Colt over all of them, shoot it and you will understand the mystery and allure of the weapon.
 
I guess I'm gonna get flamed now
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Probably not.

Like I said, they are exactly like a Harley. Overhyped, overpriced, and have a great following of expensive aftermarket and custom parts.

Some people like the statement a Harley/1911 makes. Some people like to customize and tinker with a Harley/1911. Some people have more money than brains and simply buy them because everyone else says how great they are.

But some people simply don't have the money to buy then and get something cheaper like a Honda/XD or Suzuki/Glock or Yamaha/Taurus. They want cheap reliability, solid performance, cheap parts, and an easy experience.

The die hard Harley/1911 owners will, more than likely, never admit that the alternative outperforms them in every aspect out of the box and does it for half the price, and the die hard Honda/XD, Suzuki/Glock, and Yamaha/Taurus owners will never admit that deep down, they really want a Harley/1911...
 
Test?

XDSlayer challenged:

>I would love to see someone take a stock 1911 through the reliability tests people have subjected Glocks and XDs to. I honestly don't think they can pass that test out of the box.<
************************

I'll take some of that action...Bring your Glock/Sig/Whatever...a couple dozen mags and about 5-6 thousand rounds of ammo and play follow the leader with one of my old beaters...You can have your pick from a half-dozen.;)
 
^ OOOOH oooh 1911Tuner, can I bring my 1914 GI Colt and play too??? And if that's not good enough for XDSlayer I'll bring my Colt WWII Repro instead. :D
 
The 1911A1 is the antithesis of Harley-Davidson. the 1911A1 has not only kept up with the times, it is still the apex predator of the handgun arena. It not only succeeds as a lifestyle pistol, it is still the handgun of choice for a great many shooters whose very lives might have to depend on their handguns performing in the pinch.

I have an XD. It is nice for what it is. It will never be the equivalent of a 1911A1. It cannot be by design. Nothing anyone on the planet can do for the XD is going to get its trigger reset anywhere near as sweet as it is on my typical warhorse. Nor is the XD as accurate. Nor is it any more reliable.

Plus I get the bonus pride of ownership with my 1911A1s. Mine are all as different from one another as a family of siblings. They might all be related by parentage, but they also all come from a strong bloodline as well as with different personalities. I think that is the "soul" people speak of. The XD does not "speak" to me. It is what it is and it can scarcely ever be more than it was when I bought it in terms of personalization.

I tend to equate the 1911A1, in motoring parlance, with the Jeep design currently known as the Wrangler. A design born for battle. Heavily modified from where it began. Customizeable into something next to unrecognizable. Still at the top of its game today. Not practical for everyone. Not ever going to appeal to someone who thinks a Geo Tracker will get them through a four foot high snow drift. Too primitive for the suckers who buy civilian Hummers.:evil:
 
I don't own a 1911 yet, but I'll bring an HK USP .45 Compact and go buy a 1911 just so I can fit into the "everything VS 1911" debate. :neener:
 
Why are people so passionate about 1911's?

You know, I don't know. I really don't.

I purchased a Kimber about a year ago, it is highly accurate, but I have had a time with it failing to eject.

I worked on it, I've been told to run 1000 through it before sending it back to Yonkers. Cleaned it to a T. Fired it dirty. Always a problem. I've had it about a year.

Took it out last month and was firing (for me) real tight off hand groups at 15 yards. 2 1/2 to 3"... Ran through about 90 rds and had a fte. Fixed it and fired about 20 more.

I was driving home and it occured to me that I absolutely LOVE that pistol. Don't ask me why. It will never be my go-to CCW or home defense piece, but I love it.
 
They are accurate accurate enough that they have been used in the top levels of all current gun competitions, Durrable, have excellent and ADJUSTIBLE ergonomics. They fire a round that is effective without being too overpowered for a CQB/ Urban situation Its also a low pressure round meaning the guns and the brass last forever. They can be easily worked on, there are lots of parts availible to suit every taste.......They come in prices ranging from $350-3500

And they usually work right out of the box without any breakin period, at least all six of the ones in various configurations from 4 different manufacturers I own do......

Unlike the last SIG and the last GLOCK I bought which both jammed right out of the box.
 
Uh, you know not what you speak, sir.

I recall being in Byron's shop in Trinidad, CO., some time before he moved to Indiana. The prototype he showed me was a TWO valve motor. Since he's moved to Indiana and developed and raced the motor, I can assure you it's still only a two valve per cylinder motor. They are running (RINO) a "V-Rod in name only...

http://www.bikersmag.com/html/harley_news.html

If you go here:

http://www.dragbike.com/dbnews/anmvi...sp?a=1933&z=18

and page down near the bottom you'll see the bike with a #1 PRO plate on it.

Look for the NHRA Pro Stock to really heat up this year. Byron's building Suzuki motors again, in addition to the faux HD V-Rod. The "Buells" are based on S&S motors.
__________________
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Okay, so they took two valves out, probably to meet a class rule or something. Drag racing bores me, but I understand the engine is NOT your classic 45 degree V twin, nor does it resemble much the Vrod/VR1000 (the motor they had Porche design cause they couldn't do it themselves) base motor, so I'll bow to your knowledge of number of valves and final creation they came up with. Suffice to say it's no Dyna.

My roots are in road racing an flat track where the rider has to do more than have a good reaction time and hang on for 4 seconds. But, I do know there are spec series for Hogs, real hogs, in drag racing. Covered one for Thunder Roads Texas a while back at Houston Raceway Park, where I also do some flat tracking. They run Harley based classes so of course there's nothing but Harleys and Harleys win. AMA practically made a Harley spec series out of flat track in the 80s when they just kept giving the Hondas Schobert was riding more and more weight penalties as they won with it until Honda just said "fudge it" and pulled out. The series lost lots of money and the riders were McDonald's connoisseurs pretty much living out of box vans trying to make a living for 20 years. That's just now turning around.

But, back to .45s, someone said the 1911 had garnered cult status. This is quite true and I'm in total agreement. I would also add the .45 has garnered the same cult status. It's the Harley's...er....45's best, blank the rest mentality, close minded cultists who not only don't pay attention, but couldn't care less, much like me with drag racing....or NASCAR. :D They perpetuate the .45's exalted status as the most powerful handgun ever made and will blow your head clean off by inventing physics to "prove" it. This is quite comical to me, but you're not going to prove anything different to 'em. They'll call you a liar and a cheat if you do.

Still, while I don't care much for 1911s, I like the .45 as a cartridge. It is effective and I have one and I handload for it. But, it's not the most powerful handgun ever made, even defensive caliber. It hasn't ever been that. It came out 38 years after the .45 Colt, for instance. When the magnum calibers came along, well, forget it. Now days, we have all sorts of semi autos like the ten and the 40 to top it. But, their bullets are only .40 caliber, so they CAN'T be as powerful, of course.

It's not so much the gun or the caliber, but the cultists that get irritating sometimes. I reckon I could say that about Hogs, but I know too many nice folks that ride 'em, so I won't. Besides, I like Sportsters and the big baggers. You can keep your Buells, though. I won't ride junk. http://www.mybuell.com
 
Well, here's one thread and a test. You're welcome.
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That's simply a sand test and no where near the tests they ran the Glock and XD through. I'm still trying to find the ones you referenced on GlockTalk, but I'm not through searching.

And the Glock/XD test I'm talking about is the one where it was put in sand, saltwater, driven into the mud with a truck, dropped onto pavement from various heights, driven over, thrown, frozen, etc.

I've yet to see a stock 1911 go through this. I, personally, don't think one would pass. I'm sure I could be wrong. But then again, finding someone willing to do this to a 1911 is probably a further stretch than it passing.

I would have to admit that I wouldn't do it to my XD, let alone a 1911...
 
The 1911A1 is the antithesis of Harley-Davidson. the 1911A1 has not only kept up with the times, it is still the apex predator of the handgun arena. It not only succeeds as a lifestyle pistol, it is still the handgun of choice for a great many shooters whose very lives might have to depend on their handguns performing in the pinch.

I have an XD. It is nice for what it is. It will never be the equivalent of a 1911A1. It cannot be by design. Nothing anyone on the planet can do for the XD is going to get its trigger reset anywhere near as sweet as it is on my typical warhorse. Nor is the XD as accurate. Nor is it any more reliable.

Plus I get the bonus pride of ownership with my 1911A1s. Mine are all as different from one another as a family of siblings. They might all be related by parentage, but they also all come from a strong bloodline as well as with different personalities. I think that is the "soul" people speak of. The XD does not "speak" to me. It is what it is and it can scarcely ever be more than it was when I bought it in terms of personalization.

I tend to equate the 1911A1, in motoring parlance, with the Jeep design currently known as the Wrangler. A design born for battle. Heavily modified from where it began. Customizeable into something next to unrecognizable. Still at the top of its game today. Not practical for everyone. Not ever going to appeal to someone who thinks a Geo Tracker will get them through a four foot high snow drift. Too primitive for the suckers who buy civilian Hummers.
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That's a very interesting way of looking at it and it shows you just how subjective our opinion on 1911's are.

You see it as a verified design and I see it as failure to evolve. You see it as an apex predator yet I see it as the old lion simply waiting for the new, younger lion to eventually replace it. You see it as having a soul and I see it as simply another hunk of metal shooting another hunk of metal.

You see it as the venerable, useful, proven, go to vehicle like a jeep and I see it as a model A. Outdated, lacking refinement, and kept alive not by it's usefulness, but by it's cult following.

I don't think you can get any more night and day than that huh? It's definetly a pistol that you love or hate. Even in this discussion I fail to see anyone saying "1911....they're ok...". That alone speaks volumes about it.

It's kinda like a popular football team. You see those t-shirts that say my favorite team is X and anyone playing the Cowboys.
 
Test?

Quote:

>I've yet to see a stock 1911 go through this. I, personally, don't think one would pass.<
*************

mmmmmmmmmmkay...How about a stock early-production 1991A1 Colt...now on its third barrel and one tightening/refitting. I just replaced the original extractor 2 weeks ago...not because it needed it...but just because. Round count is approaching 135,000 without a single malfunction. High-end ammo...
middlin'-grade ammo....junk cast bullet reloaded ammo...not a single malfunction in almost 135k. How 'bout another identical twin to the same gun
with nearly the same round count...with maybe a half-dozen malfunctions.

Got another, later 1991A1 with about 15,000 on it now...two malfunctions early on...due to the MIM extractor (Which the other two didn't have)...and a NRM purchased in 'ought-one...now at about 30k...and nary a malfunction since replacing the MIM extractor.

I know! I'm workin' a deal on a '44 production Remington Rand...refinished but not arsenal rebuilt...and as stock as can be. We'll do a shoot-it-'til-it-chokes or breaks with that one if you'd like. Lexington, NC...Easy access off Interstate 85...Come see a bone-stock 1919 Colt and a 1945 Rand eat hollowpoints and lead SWCs like they were starvin' for the stuff.

Standin' by...:cool:
 
In my opinion, those things are great.

The 1911A1 was not my first handgun. But, once I shot
one, I immediately acquired one for myself.

After nearly ten years of accurate, reliable service,
I sent my Springfield Mil-Spec off to Yost-Bonitz for
a rebirth. Did not need to, I just wanted it to be
all I've lusted for.

1911's deserve to have loyal followers for a 100 years.
 
Wow, great responses and a ton of info. The fellow that gave me the .45 ACP ammo for my birthday has offered to let me shoot any of his 1911's that I want to. So i guess I'll plan a day at the range and then offer my own opinion. Thanks to all!
 
Its very easy to shoot well, even in rapid-fire. I am not a good pistol shot, but I can shoot a 1911 fairly well.
Add to that reliability, large caliber, but thin enough to carry concealed, plus the fact that it points great and typically has a great trigger...
its just a great gun.
 
It is not an easy arm to break down nor work on. How many people have launched their recoil springs across the room? That little damn tab on the take down lever you have to push in with a small screwdriver on reassembly is enough to make the Pope swear. I can field strip my XD in 5 seconds, you couldn't get the slide off a 1911 if you were possessed by John Moses Browing himself in that amount of time.
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XDKingslayer, a few thoughts:
  • controlling the recoil spring is a simple matter of manual dexterity.
  • inserting the slide release lever easily is a matter of technique, not tools.
I have watched 1911Tuner detail strip a 1911 in less than a minute and put it back together in about 2 minutes (I wish I had written down the exact times).

Oh, and you probably don't want to take 1911Tuner's challenge unless you want to ruin one of your guns. :D
 
"Everyone seems to mention how much our military loved them and how well it served them, yet seem to forget our military dropped them from inventory in favor of something else..."

Yup, a politial move that is slowly being reversed. Plenty of our guys are packing good ol' 1911s again. ;)
 
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