killchain
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...implying that Kimber knows what they're doing?
But the real reason is probably because they get "allowances" because of the amount of revenue they bring to their state.
Why are so many gun companies in anti-gun states?
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But the real reason is probably because they get "allowances" because of the amount of revenue they bring to their state.
ranger335v
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"Probably because many companies were there before the nuts started running the state. "
Exactly. The machine industry started in the north east/midwest states long before they became radical hot beds of nanny-state socialism. California accomplished the same thing during the WWII period, lost it due to the same reasons.
It would help the bottom line for all of 'em to come South but the transition costs slow the them down. It will continue to happen tho, the continuing financial squeeze from greedy local governments and labor unions insures the outward trend will continue. Meaning neither of those parasitic groups can stop thinking with a 'kill the goose that lays golden eggs' mindset!
Exactly. The machine industry started in the north east/midwest states long before they became radical hot beds of nanny-state socialism. California accomplished the same thing during the WWII period, lost it due to the same reasons.
It would help the bottom line for all of 'em to come South but the transition costs slow the them down. It will continue to happen tho, the continuing financial squeeze from greedy local governments and labor unions insures the outward trend will continue. Meaning neither of those parasitic groups can stop thinking with a 'kill the goose that lays golden eggs' mindset!
The video here explains why all the gunmakers are where they're at:
http://www.americanprecision.org/
An awesome place to visit if you're ever up by NH/VT!
http://www.americanprecision.org/
An awesome place to visit if you're ever up by NH/VT!
lonegunman
Member
Have you ever looked at the electoral map of Ill.? I think the state is probably friendly to gun makers with the exception of the extreme northern portion.
The entire state voted about 80% republican in the last senate election. The city of Chicago, on the other hand, voted something like 95% Democrat. Even New York city does not vote so extreme leftist. It is so extreme that is appears to be statisically impossible, but who am I to question an entire city.
As far as moving, in many cases you have to so the environmental clean-up if you shut down production. If you have been in business for 150 years that could mean a big mess and no doubt the leftists would rip you apart for trying to leave and pick your old factory to pieces. It is sometimes simply cheaper to stay in place and keep quiet.
The entire state voted about 80% republican in the last senate election. The city of Chicago, on the other hand, voted something like 95% Democrat. Even New York city does not vote so extreme leftist. It is so extreme that is appears to be statisically impossible, but who am I to question an entire city.
As far as moving, in many cases you have to so the environmental clean-up if you shut down production. If you have been in business for 150 years that could mean a big mess and no doubt the leftists would rip you apart for trying to leave and pick your old factory to pieces. It is sometimes simply cheaper to stay in place and keep quiet.
belercous
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Quote:
A couple of my friends have been there for years and still don't make $20.00/hr, so I see their point.
No offense, but that is an absurd amount of money for being a general laborer in a factory of any kind.
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In 2010 $20.00/hr is a bit low for experienced general labor, at least around here. $15.00/hr is a fair starting wage for a 20 yr. old kid, but not for experienced labor. One of my friends who works at Olin (and doesn't make $20.00/hr) has over 30 yrs. experience as a machinist. He made more than that 25 years ago at McDonnell-Douglass with way less experience. A new, unexperienced, general laborer in the carpenter's union makes at least $20.00/hr. around here. If others want to work for less somewhere else, they can have it as they are more desperate than the locals I know.
And if I was Olin-Winchester, I'd move to where I'd save money too. But don't expect a consumerate price reduction on Winchester ammo. Or an improvement in its quality.
A couple of my friends have been there for years and still don't make $20.00/hr, so I see their point.
No offense, but that is an absurd amount of money for being a general laborer in a factory of any kind.
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In 2010 $20.00/hr is a bit low for experienced general labor, at least around here. $15.00/hr is a fair starting wage for a 20 yr. old kid, but not for experienced labor. One of my friends who works at Olin (and doesn't make $20.00/hr) has over 30 yrs. experience as a machinist. He made more than that 25 years ago at McDonnell-Douglass with way less experience. A new, unexperienced, general laborer in the carpenter's union makes at least $20.00/hr. around here. If others want to work for less somewhere else, they can have it as they are more desperate than the locals I know.
And if I was Olin-Winchester, I'd move to where I'd save money too. But don't expect a consumerate price reduction on Winchester ammo. Or an improvement in its quality.
PR-NJ
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PR-NJ
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Same thing in New York, once you get north of Westchester County. New Jersey, too, once you are south of the state's "Mason-Dixon" line (somewhere around Trenton).
Cosmoline
Member
Another factor--gun makers don't make guns in a vacuum. Like all other manufacturers they rely on material from other manufacturers and suppliers. Being centrally located reduces costs. It matters less for a Freedom Arms or Dakota making small numbers of very high-end products. For the larger outfits moving to a rural or mountain state isn't practical.
Black Butte
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It's the perfect example of a double standard. Anti-gun states pine for the tax revenue and economic benefits associated with firearms manufacturing for other states, yet stubbornly deny equal rights for their own citizenry. It is shameful in much the same way that gambling is only legal when Uncle Sam is taking the bets or cutting himself in on the action.
Superlite27
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Don't forget the presence of Winchester Ammo (Olin) in East Alton, Illinois.
Although, they seem to be in the process of moving the plant and its 1,700 jobs to Mississippi.
http://www.stltoday.com/business/article_781563e9-8962-5dbf-9115-c7cc30e19377.html
Although, they seem to be in the process of moving the plant and its 1,700 jobs to Mississippi.
http://www.stltoday.com/business/article_781563e9-8962-5dbf-9115-c7cc30e19377.html
Black Butte
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Springfield Armory and DSA are also in Illinois.
RevDerb
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Interesting and thought provoking observations. 
testosterone
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i live in ct, and aside from the histoey, it baffles me as well.
ct is very nearly the most business hostile state in the union.
we have many though...
seecamp
colts
marlin
stag
wildey
mossberg
us firearms
connecticut shotgun
ct is very nearly the most business hostile state in the union.
we have many though...
seecamp
colts
marlin
stag
wildey
mossberg
us firearms
connecticut shotgun
jpwilly
Member
Not really ironic when you consider that even we cannot purchase many LEO/military items as well.
LiveLife
Member
Maybe because there are so many people scared of criminals and gang bangers in those states?
J/K
Sav .250
Member
If and when the union gets involved ,they will either fold or move. Or....out source.
Owen
Moderator Emeritus
That cluster of companies in Illinois are offspring of Rock Island Arsenal (the real one, not the phillipine knock-off)
Owen
Moderator Emeritus
re: $20 an hour - that was pretty typical for machine operators when I was still working in factories in New England...10 years ago.
RustHunter87
Member
This country was almost entirely built off guns, the guns got us freedom and kept us free well funded and Our Belly's Full.
some people just cant appreciate all they had done for us.
some people just cant appreciate all they had done for us.
Joe in fla
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AirForceShooter said:
Kimber is in NY.
They can't move now. They have very well trained personnel and the cost of relocating them would be incredible.
As a former CFO I promise you, if they could they would. States would line up to give them freebies to move there.
AFS
You should serious consider moving to the Titusville Fla area. Home of keltec, Knights Armament and the Cape Kennedy. Low wages, few unions and the state begging for industries to move here. The new governor, Rich Scott is VERY pro business and with the space shuttle program shutting down there's going to be a LOT of VERY highly skilled people looking for jobs in that area. This is also a gun friendly state! Keltec and Knights Armament are already in this area so we are beginning to have very good local gun industry.
Kimber is in NY.
They can't move now. They have very well trained personnel and the cost of relocating them would be incredible.
As a former CFO I promise you, if they could they would. States would line up to give them freebies to move there.
AFS
You should serious consider moving to the Titusville Fla area. Home of keltec, Knights Armament and the Cape Kennedy. Low wages, few unions and the state begging for industries to move here. The new governor, Rich Scott is VERY pro business and with the space shuttle program shutting down there's going to be a LOT of VERY highly skilled people looking for jobs in that area. This is also a gun friendly state! Keltec and Knights Armament are already in this area so we are beginning to have very good local gun industry.
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