Why are we our own worst enemy?

[Glockman17366]

I wrote this after reading the thread about Bill (I sold my ass to the Chinese) Clinton's comments to the anti-rights mayors.

We weep and moan about how the 2nd Amendment is done...we'll lose our choices about what firearms WE, as Americans, decide to buy for our uses.

Well, there's better then 80 million of us. If and when a politician is foolish enough to try to deprive us of a RIGHT, we have the RIGHT to sue for civil rights violations. A RIGHT we must use, if we value our other rights.

Clinton would be a good start...but not the last.

 

[john1911]

Why are we our on worst enemy?

Because too many gun owners are ill-informed and selfish. As long as they "feel" their particular guns are safe, they couldn't really care less about others. Too many believe the BS about the current administration "believing" in the 2A and the "sporting" use of firearms.

These are the same gun owners that will appear with the antis calling for more gun control. "You don't need _________ to hunt with." How many times do we read this on the gun forums? These "sportsmen" don't realize that they are nothing more than useful idiots, pawns of the antis that will be cast away and turned on as soon as the "evil" guns are banned.

Yes Elmer, they will come for your 12 gauge and 30-30 after they get my guns.

 

[22-rimfire]

The folks you mention are not necessarily ill informed. Their lives just don't revolve around whether they can shoot 500 or 1000 rounds with an AR. There are always activists and there are the rest of the gun owners. It has always been the case. It is up to the activists to gain support for their cause. Look at climate change. The climate change folks are winning right or wrong. The non-activists will loose, but they aren't the leaders in the movement. You want to be a leader, then lead. But you won't gain ANY support by calling them Elmer Fudds.

Glockman is from PA. PA law has always outlawed semi-automatic rifles and handguns from hunting. That needs to change. It is a state issue. This can happen, there is a lot of support for it.

 

[yokel]

The creeds, values and ethical systems of America's past have been largely cast aside.

The militia system of the Founding Era had an important moral component. By serving in the militia, a citizen said he was prepared to stand up for his rights, even at the cost of his life. Militia service brought together people from disparate social backgrounds and reminded them of their shared citizenship. It also bred a familiarity with military matters that helped to dispel the mystique of professional soldiers, an otherwise potent political tool of the establishment.

While we today lament the loss of an American consensus on the virtues of liberty, we can at least take refuge in the thought that in days long past, the American government and the Founding Fathers who created it, respected the liberties of the people.

 

[john1911]

The folks you mention are not necessarily ill informed.

Yes, as a general rule they are. The believe their 2A rights (to hunt and shoot clays) will be safe under the current regime. They refuse to look at the past records of the the current "leadership". They refuse to believe their "huntin'" gun will be targeted after all the "evil" guns are banned.

But you won't gain ANY support by calling them Elmer Fudds.

Why does everyone seem to think that this crowd supports us anyway? They don't! They support their "right" to hunt. They have no understanding of the 2A or why it was written into the Constitution. As long as they can go out once or twice a year and crank off a few shots at their preferred animal, they don't care about any gun regulations (more than a few actively support these regulations).

Don't tell me that true 2A defenders need to dumb themselves down to the level of these "sportsmen". We are in the spot we are because of years of trying to please everyone, including these "5 shots a year gun owners".

 

[Freezebyte]

"It is in your nature to destroy each other"

 

[JImbothefiveth]

If you're going to sue him, pick a place like Texas. But I seriously think it will get you nowhere.

 

[Apple a Day]

No. We have Eric Holder now.

 

[CoRoMo]

Hunting is 100% controlled and always will be. When I go elk hunting, the DoW tells me when, where, and if, I get to hunt. They tell me what I can hunt for, how many I can take, what I can hunt with and what I can't. It is controlled from top to bottom, start to finish, inside and out.

The people trying to disarm every last American want to make the 2nd Amendment, of our Bill of Right, about hunting. They want it to be seen as a sporting/hunting issue. That is why Hillary, Biden, and Kerry all start talking about their duck hunting experiences whenever they are asked about the 2nd Amendment.

They want it to be about hunting, because they completely control that.

Far too many gun owners buy into their definition, and that is why our freedom is at stake.

 

[Macmac]

Get this right. I am 57... I have seen hand guns called for, black guns called for and black powder guns called for.

To the anti there is no good gun, and if there is it is in the hands of enforcement and or their personal body guards, and sometimes even the anti's own hands.

Before they get done trying to ban a gun or a kind of gun they will act to ban pointy bits of steel you guys call knives.

And Yes you are right! here we weep crying in our beer over guns, when that isn't the arugment at all. The Arugment is the CONS and the Bill of Rights mixed with the Dec of Independance.

These would be leaders have SWORN TO THE OATH OF OFFICE!

Plain and simple they are traitors to the USA, the enemy from with in the Dec of Ind says enemies foreign AND DOMESTIC.

These would be leaders need to be accused of high crimes, treason and be arrested! Then tried. I can't say what will happen after they are tried because i don't know if they would be found guilty as charged, but for more than all my 57 years there is a little evidence that says they just might be found GUILTY.

I am a back woodsmen, and so I don't know how to go about this sort of thing, but i would if I just knew how.

We squabble and spend money with the NRA, GOA and others who rightfully fight for out rights, just not the right Rights!

We either get it right this time or we will end up in another Civil War..

I don't care what new laws these people create that hinder and infringe my rights.. They can pass paer just like they pass bull chips, and I don't care...

Never will it be I go unarmed in the society these very same people have created! Never not one single day.

 

[Macmac]

Oh I forgot where I was.. Opps..

 

[Duke of Doubt]

It IS sort of funny when the Fudds elsewhere say you can't hunt with an AR. You sure can, here. Coyote are hunted at night, over bait, illuminated, by multiple AR-armed hunters. It is the weapon of choice for coyote, and rightfully so.

 

[BADUNAME37]

Freezebyte,

I enjoyed watching your video of your opening up the Springfield XD(m) 9mm semi auto.

I kind of wanted to see it fire, however indoors would not be such a good idea.

Good luck with it!

If I ever am in the market for a semi auto, I would seriously consider that one, I was impressed!

 

[Glockman17366]

It IS sort of funny when the Fudds elsewhere say you can't hunt with an AR.

Derogatory descriptions of fellow gun owners will not win over their hearts and minds.
That comment is exactly what this thread is all about.

 

[22-rimfire]

In Texas, AR's are one of the favored firearms for coyote and varmint hunters. I think it is a perfect use of the platform.

Game animals have flurished in a controlled hunting environment. Game management was paid for by taxes on guns and ammunition. In the early 1900's. there were few whitetailed deer in North America. It is also the time when a lot of the eastern US was deforested.

States like PA started buying property primarily from timber companies after it was logged out for essentially the price of the taxes. These lands became the State Game Lands that PA folks have enjoyed for over 50 years. PA did a wonderful thing buying those properties for the future enjoyment of it citizens, but primarily sportsmen.

The importance of hunters, conservationists, and sportsmen can not be de-emphasized when it comes to our history and their effect in the 2A fight. You loose the hunters and you loose the fight.

The problem is that there are fewer hunters these days based on state hunting license sales. Why? I think the problem is that folks can't afford to pay the price for leases and so forth which are so common in many states. There is no place to hunt from their perspective. Even in my state, Tennessee, for the most part you need to apply for a permit to hunt in the wildlife management areas. In PA, those would be called "State Game Lands". The permits and limited access detract from people enjoying these public lands. You can't even take a walk with a 22 rifle on these lands except during hunting season.

Most folks that I know don't want to have to have a license to own a firearm. All gun owners will be mobilized when the time comes, if it comes. The problem comes in when the anti-gun foes chip away and regulate our rights further slowly. The "assault weapons ban" is one of those that isolates a select group to sell broad legislation under the disguise of crime control.

I think folks voted for BHO for change (what ever that means?) and ignored the fact that they may well be throwing the baby away with the bath water.

Older hunters may well not see the "tiny cuts" coming which is why Obama carried PA and Ohio in the presidential election. It still bugs me to no end but it may not have made a difference. The vote was often an anti-Bush/anti-Republican vote.

Politicans will be foolish to deprive gun owners their rights under the constitution. There will be serious ramifications for their actions.

 

[RP88]

well, let's break it down:

you have the fudds, who only care about hunting, and say things like "Hunting with an SKS? What a moron."

you have the average Joes, who only care about their HD shotgun or their .357 revolver, and say things like "what the hell do you need a 20-round handgun for?"

Then you have the horders, collectors, and investors who buy up everything military-related or potentially ban-able weapons, saying "I don't care if I do or don't need it, but I sure hope they're banned and I can still sell them for huge profit."

Then you have the gun shop guys, who say things like "Hey! These things will be banned soon. Be afraid! Oh, and by this AR for an extra 500 bucks. It's a lucrative business, you know..."

Then you have the cops and LEO who say things like "Man... being the only guy out there with a gun would sure make me feel better."

then there are the 'gun nuts' who stick to the absolute wording of the bill of rights, and can care less about the fudds or the ethical idealist Joes or the investors or the business owners who belittle them as they get out there and try and protect everyone's rights.

that is why we are our own worst enemy: no one is working in the same direction as one another. The burden is placed on people like us, while everyone else can give less of a crap because they think that "it'll never happen here, and if it did we wouldn't be able to stop it anyway."

 

[22-rimfire]

you have the fudds, who only care about hunting, and say things like "Hunting with an SKS? What a moron."

That's funny. I can think of better choices however.

Even here, there are many who say that BHO will not push gun control legislation. I think they are wrong, but that is the belief because of the economy. Read the thread on Argentina. That may well be the USA in a couple years. Oops.... that's on .US. Oh well.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Because too many gun owners are ill-informed and selfish. As long as they "feel" their particular guns are safe, they couldn't really care less about others. Too many believe the BS about the current administration "believing" in the 2A and the "sporting" use of firearms.

These are the same gun owners that will appear with the antis calling for more gun control. "You don't need _________ to hunt with." How many times do we read this on the gun forums? These "sportsmen" don't realize that they are nothing more than useful idiots, pawns of the antis that will be cast away and turned on as soon as the "evil" guns are banned.

Yes Elmer, they will come for your 12 gauge and 30-30 after they get my guns.

Well said. Because they are too selfish, lazy, and cheap to lift a finger and their wallet to protect gun rights.

 

[theotherwaldo]

You've forgotten that most "antis" aren't really against guns. They're against you having guns.

As long as their security guards, their gun clubs, their police, their military, and their UN can have and control all firearms, all is right with the world.

Just don't allow the peasants to arm themselves!

 

[swgunner]

So what about us military or private security guys, we can use guns to defend them but our own families are cannon fodder. that is hypocrisy on a grand scale, but then again Feinstein had a carry permit.