Why aren't slide action rifles more popular?

[jim in Anchorage]

I see endless interest in lever guns, and so do the manufactures as shown by the huge number of lever action rifles on the market.
Yet, as far as I know, only Rem makes a pump CF rifle.
I find a pump superior because-
[1] The action can be cycled faster
[2] The straight line back and forth motion of working the slide is less disruptive to you're aim then the down and up motion of a lever.
[3] You're finger stays on the trigger.
I know this is not just some theory of mine. How many pump action shotguns are made vs levers?

 

[Sam1911]

Lots more rifles are shot off of benches, bipods, tree limbs, knees, and other improvise rests than are shotguns. It is quite a bit less disruptive to your shooting position to work a bolt or lever than it is to lift the rifle's forearm off the rest to cycle the next round in. If you're talking about wingshooting or other off-hand work, one is just as fast as the other, and probably a hair faster than most people can be working a bolt action.

But those long-range supported shots change that. In the end it isn't a deal-breaker, but most rifle guys just have proven (with their purchases) to prefer that a rifle have a stable, immovable forend.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Sam- good points but I was thinking of walking woods hunting where the shots are primarily off hand at some times running targets.

 

[Sam1911]

And that's where those Remington 760s/7600s really shine. They're loved over here in PA and elsewhere in the east for close-range woods shooting.

 

[dogrunner]

And that's precisely why I love that liteweight 20" bbld BAR I use........handles like a bird gun!


And yeah, I know Sam, you can't because of that stupid no auto law.........really doesn't make a lotta sense u know......Only state I know of that has such a reg.

 

[Kosh75287]

I'm not sure they're made, but if I was hunting dangerous game (I'm sure that THOSE are still made) in the western hemisphere, I think I'd want a pump-action .35 Whelen. I think the main obstacle to making more pump-action firearms in large rifle calibers is the need for a box-type magazine for the spritzer-type projectiles (which may be prohibitively expensive), or limiting the calibers to those most often seen in tubular magazines.

< Deleted By Moderator >

 

[ugaarguy]

Unlike the lever action, it's actually very easy to put a box magazine on a slide action. The Remington 7600, and its AR-15 magazine offspring, the 7615, are great examples. Norinco even makes an 870 clone that uses a detachable box magazine.

 

[grovey]

I've seen some 760's and 7600's that shot sub moa with factory stuff. I think the biggest downside is weight @ 8lbs bare.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

My 760 will shoot sub MOA with factory ammo. Only problem I have with the gun is the slide handle rattles if I'm not holding it.

 

[critter]

I used to have an old Rem 760 in .270 Win. It was a really accurate gun and fast on the repeat shot. Great gun.

I think the main knocks against them are that they sometimes rattle a little and that primary extraction is not as strong as a bolt gun in the case of sticky brass for some reason.

 

[jmr40]

I'm not sure they're made, but if I was hunting dangerous game (I'm sure that THOSE are still made) in the western hemisphere, I think I'd want a pump-action .35 Whelen.

Sounds good in theory, but pumps have some of disadvantages too. Compared to a bolt or double rifle pumps and lever actions are not nearly as rugged or reliable in harsh conditions. Getting off multiple rapid fire shots is not nearly as high on the priority list as having a gun that will work, even in the harshest weather conditions. This is why bolt and double rifles will always be preferred for dangerous game.

There is also a difference in how fast it is possible to empty a guns magazine, and how fast someone can get off multiple shots and hit something. I've gone to the range and had friends time me getting off multiple shots. With a semi or pump I can fire 3 shots in under 1 second, closer to 1/2 second with a semi. I can get off 3 with a lever in 1.5 seconds and am still under 2 seconds with a bolt rifle. But I cannot hit anything at those speeds.

If I put a paper plate at 50 yards and time myself with a requirement that all 3 shots hit the paper plate I'm a lot slower, and the times much closer. With a semi my times run about 2 seconds, about 3 seconds for a pump. The bolt and lever rifles are tied at about 4 seconds. That is with me shooting, others may be better. With most of the manually operated guns it takes longer to recover from recoil and get the sights back on target than it takes to cycle the action. So in real world hunting situations there isn't that much difference.

I've come close to buying one several times. In theory I like them. They feel good unscoped, but with a scope mounted they are terribly heavy and poorly balanced. My bolt rifles are anywhere from 1-3 lbs lighter and just point and feel better scoped. The rapid fire advantage is just not that great.

 

[hatt]

Unlike the lever action, it's actually very easy to put a box magazine on a slide action. The Remington 7600, and its AR-15 magazine offspring, the 7615, are great examples. Norinco even makes an 870 clone that uses a detachable box magazine.

Several levers(Savage 99, Win 88, Win 1895, Ruger, BLR) have box mags. I don't think it's about difficulty. More likely tradition.

 

[JohnBT]

I have never liked loose forends on rifles. I like a solid grip firmly attached to the barrel. My father didn't like pump rifles, my uncles didn't, my cousins didn't and I've known very few people who ever owned one.

A loose forend on a shotgun isn't so bad because wingshooting isn't a precision activity.

 

[LAGS]

I have always got the opinion of others that they didn't feel the Lock Up on a Pump Rifle was as strong as a bolt action rifle.
Maybe it was because things rattled, but they just thought they were flimsey.
The receivers were also of a lighter material, and just didn't feel as solid when they wanted a Big Bore.

 

[40-82]

I think operating a bolt is more of a learned thing than operating a pump or a lever. Most bolt action shooters drop the rifle to waist level or at least down off the shoulder to cycle the bolt. A trained man on a bolt action is a thing apart. While at a significant distance for timed fire, aiming will always take up more time than working the action, I still find the lever much faster than the bolt for getting hits at close range.

I didn't start off liking pumps. The forend on the new Remingtons always seemed to flop around and that irritated me. It would work I suppose in the woods at close range but at a cost I didn't want to pay. I didn't learn what a pump could be until I put my hands on a Colt Lightening 38-40 made in 1896. The forend lacked that side to side flop, and no way could I cycle a lever anywhere near as fast, or remain on target as well. The Remington Model 25 from the 20's is almost as good. I doubt I could equal the rate of accurate fire at close range I can get from the old Colt with a semi-auto of similar power and weight.

As far as why pumps are rare, that's simply a matter of the original popularity of the Winchester lever. Winchester built rifles and Colt built pistols. When Colt began encroaching too much on the rifle market, Winchester showed them a model for a revolver asking for production advice, which amounted to a veiled threat. An agreement came out of that. It had nothing to do with the inferiority of the pump. Before World War II pumps by Remington and Marlin never touched the dominance Winchester held in the market. And of course after World War I, the returning GI's wanted bolt guns.

I can't really speak to the reliability of the early pump rifles the way I can the bolts or the levers. If I need a part for a Winchester lever or any of the common bolt guns, I can find it, although I don't recall ever doing that except for rifles that were abused that I have put back in service. The early pumps were rarer, and I would have a harder time finding replacement parts. For that reason I tend to be more careful about the conditions in which I would subject an old pump.

 

[jason41987]

about the lockup not being strong enough that just cant be true.. my shotgun uses a pretty heavy duty tilting bolt no unlike what might be used in an FAL.. id imagine a rotating bolt would be possible.. seems to me that "slide actions" are more like a semi automatic but the carrier is manually operated both forward and back with the pump.. i guess the K-31 is not too dissimilar except the handle at which you operate the action is further back

personally, i just dont think a slide action makes any sense.. what is the slide operating on? most center fire rifle cartridges would not be well suited for a tube magazine which is where the slide on shotguns sits.. so without the tube magazine the slide has nothing to sit on unless its the barrel itself, that could cause further issues with accuracy

so to me it just seems like as most centerfire rifle cartridges do best with an internal or external box magazine that theres just no logical reason to go with a slide.. the much, much simpler, more reliable, lighter, and stronger alternative being the bolt action which is not only the simplest you can get in a rifle, but it also doesnt require any surfaces to slide upon, keeps the action lighter, the rifle smaller and works better when prone too

 

[benzy2]

I've been looking for a slide operated rifle in .223/5.56 to pop up locally at a reasonable price. Maybe not the best rifle ever designed but they're cool enough and good fun.

Realistically, I've covered nearly all requirements I've got for rifles. The Colt 6920 does everything you could ask from a "fighting" rifle. I've got plunked rimfires as well as a couple match grade bench/position rifles. Then there's the lever 30-30 which covers the medium game I have access to hunt. Everything else is just for fun. To me, a pump rifle fits right in with the fun line of rifles.

 

[tuj]

[3] You're finger stays on the trigger.

This is bad form. If you're racking the gun, you're not aiming, and if you're not aiming yet, your finger shouldn't be touching the trigger.

 

[LAGS]

The Remington 760 was popular back in the 70's as well as the 742 Semi Auto

 

[mljdeckard]

My favorite brush gun is my dad's old 760 in .257 Roberts, I even left the much maligned elevated pee-through rings on it.

 

[Sam1911]

the much maligned elevated pee-through rings on it.

Oh my goodness! Please tell me that's a typo! You'll ruin the finish and it CAN'T be good for the wood!

 

[oldpapps]

"Why aren't slide action rifles more popular?"

Good question, I don't know.

I grew up with my grandfathers .22 Stevens pump being 'my gun'. (I still have it).

The Rem 870 was 'the' shotgun of choice and I too held it in high regard.

For me, I think I moved away from pumps because of two things. First, they were few and far between being replaced by autos or unable to compete with bolts. I didn't then or now understand why an auto loader would necessarily be more accurate than a pump.
And the biggest reason that makes scene is marketing or in this case lack of marketing.

Now I did get turned off to the 870 after shooting an 1100 on the police range. But that is another story all together.

 

[frankenstein406]

Been wanting a rem 760 in 35 whelen

22s in pumps

Actually love pumps but finding them used and for a fair price seems hard.

 

[mljdeckard]

It is a very small, easily explained, totally justified, over-the-phone typo.

 

[bushmaster1313]

Remington 7615 is popular with me: