what sense would that make?? there are a gazillion deer rounds out there already
why did the .30 Remington AR fail?
- Thread starter adelbridge
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browningguy
Member
Firstly the .30 Rem isn't even close to a .308. It also isn't even close to the 6.5 Grendel in being flat shooting.
It was basically the answer to a question that no one had ever asked.
It was basically the answer to a question that no one had ever asked.
351 WINCHESTER
Member
Ammo availability and price.
But yet the grendel survives and the blackout comes out and thrives. Neither of them had the backing of a company as big as Remington as far as I know. They both just did things that people wanted. Let's face it....an AR in something other than 223/556 is a niche product....it's going to be bought by people that are going to do their research(competition/ballistics/hunting/etc) and are looking for something specific with the proof to back it up. They didn't really change the game with it. Nothing wrong with it...but it didn't exactly blow anyone's mind either.
The BO had heavy backing from Remington (owner of AAC). New bullets and lots of cheap ammo at rollout. Maybe this was Remington's prefered .30 bore and caused their shift in focus.
ngnrd
Member
I'd love to find one of these unloved 30RAR uppers and give it a good home. One of my LGS's has about 20 boxes of factory ammo sitting on the shelf. That would get me enough brass to last a while. I've actually been tempted to just buy it and force myself to find an upper.
"Name one cartridge in the last 50 years that Remington has successfully launched and it took off, other then the 7mm RM."
Uhm...I would think that the 22-250 Remington qualifies as a successful cartridge. As well, I would hazard a guess that there are enough non-AR type rifles chambered in .223 Remington to guarantee success for that wonderful little cartridge. Be sure all, that I am not a "Remington Fanboy", just pointing out my observation on what I believe to be obvious.
Uhm...I would think that the 22-250 Remington qualifies as a successful cartridge. As well, I would hazard a guess that there are enough non-AR type rifles chambered in .223 Remington to guarantee success for that wonderful little cartridge. Be sure all, that I am not a "Remington Fanboy", just pointing out my observation on what I believe to be obvious.
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W L Johnson
Member
No new cartridge is going to become popular IMHO unless
1) Gets adopted by the military
and/or
2) Gets adopted by large police agencies
and/or
3) Has a clear advantage in some area(s) over a current cartridge. Cost, ballistics etc...
and/or
4) More than 1 or 2 large gun manufacturer(s) chambers a gun for it.
and/or
5) More than 1 or 2 ammo manufacturer(s) produces it
IMHO 30AR met none of these
1) Gets adopted by the military
and/or
2) Gets adopted by large police agencies
and/or
3) Has a clear advantage in some area(s) over a current cartridge. Cost, ballistics etc...
and/or
4) More than 1 or 2 large gun manufacturer(s) chambers a gun for it.
and/or
5) More than 1 or 2 ammo manufacturer(s) produces it
IMHO 30AR met none of these
You answered your own question. Everyone is pretty satisfied with 7.62x39 performance in an AR package. .300 BO pretty much gets you there and the only thing you need is a barrel.
It's pretty simple why it didn't fly...the government didn't want it to. With all the black rifles out there, do you think the government really wants most of those rifles converted to a capability that approaches .308/7.62 NATO performance. It's much easier to defend against 5.56 NATO rounds. My opinion would be that the govt. quietly approached them and said, "Kill this thing in the crib"...thus it quietly went away before it could gain popularity in the civilian market.
ngnrd
Member
Note to self... pick up some more tin foil. 
Pretty sure the government had nothing to do with Rem pulling the plug. Nothing magical about 7.62 either. Common M855 can get through some level 3 armor that 7.62 can't.W L Johnson
Member
I'm hoping that was meant as a joke.
When Remington first started showing numbers for the 30 RAR it was in the same league as the 7.62x39 and 30-30
I have seen some info in the past year or so which puts it between the 308 and 7.62x39, which is more in line of it's case volume.
Yes, while it isn't a 308, the 30 RAR sounds like a WONDERFUL whitetail cartridge, IF they had touted the hotter loads first AND had been able to offer the product in a timely fashion.
I have seen some info in the past year or so which puts it between the 308 and 7.62x39, which is more in line of it's case volume.
Yes, while it isn't a 308, the 30 RAR sounds like a WONDERFUL whitetail cartridge, IF they had touted the hotter loads first AND had been able to offer the product in a timely fashion.
Regardless of how people view Remington's participations and/or leadership in the intro and success of the .223/5.56, IT WAS 50 YEARS AGO!
I'm in the high tech business in the silicon valley, running divisions of some big companies out here and that means marketing as well as product development, sales, et al and I am stunned how meager and conservative is the focus and execution on marketing by most every of the U.S. firearms companies.
Remington, Winchester and Colt seem to be living in another era counting on a reputation earned twenty-five, fifty, or a hundred years ago. The worst web sites, the worst distribution and reseller strategies, terrible production planning, and a proliferation of unexplainable (or at least unexplained) models coupled with irregular product quality and mixed grades in customer support.
There is so much low-hanging fruit here in this industry and it just seems a pity that someone doesn't step in and really try to turn these companies in to a modern consumer goods-type company. Some firearms veterans might be turned off by modern air and ground marketing techniques, but no one would balk at financially healthier companies with products that many of us would enjoy buying and using.
B
I'm in the high tech business in the silicon valley, running divisions of some big companies out here and that means marketing as well as product development, sales, et al and I am stunned how meager and conservative is the focus and execution on marketing by most every of the U.S. firearms companies.
Remington, Winchester and Colt seem to be living in another era counting on a reputation earned twenty-five, fifty, or a hundred years ago. The worst web sites, the worst distribution and reseller strategies, terrible production planning, and a proliferation of unexplainable (or at least unexplained) models coupled with irregular product quality and mixed grades in customer support.
There is so much low-hanging fruit here in this industry and it just seems a pity that someone doesn't step in and really try to turn these companies in to a modern consumer goods-type company. Some firearms veterans might be turned off by modern air and ground marketing techniques, but no one would balk at financially healthier companies with products that many of us would enjoy buying and using.
B
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Nope. Totally doubt it.
Maybe you are just asking the wrong questions.
Isn't even close to a .308??? It seems to me that you are passing on information without actually looking at the reality of what the 30 RAR is capable of. Run the numbers on 150gr bullets for the 30RAR and the .308win. If you compare bullet to bullet, powder to powder and max load to max load you will find that the 30RAR is between 90% and 96% of a .308win for every powder/bullet. I would say that is pretty darn close to a .308win.
Maybe we have a different idea of "not even close" though.
Also... why does it need to mimic the .308? Why can't it just succeed on it's own merits? I've shot a bunch of deer (mule deer in CO and whitetail in GA), and pigs with my 30RAR and every one of them haven't taken a single step using 130gr Speer HotCore and 125gr/150gr Nosler Ballistic Tips. The pigs I have shot haven't even squealed... bang -> dead. So I ask... does it really need to mimic the .308win? Will a deer be anymore dead hit with a 150gr Nosler BT with a muzzle velocity of 2870fps instead of 2692fps? (a 6.2% difference) Can a deer really be 6.2% more dead?
Granted, the .308 can obviously shoot heavier bullets than the .30RAR but that only matters if you NEED/WANT to shoot heavier bullets.
The 30rar is an OUTSTANDING hunting cartridge whether certain people want to admit it or not. The statement " It was basically the answer to a question that no one had ever asked." always gets my goat. It is such a close minded way of looking at just about any subject. Sorry if I offend you. We clearly have different views... and there is nothing wrong with that. Cheers.
jason41987
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if a 300 blackout can be considered a 7.62x39, then a 30 RAR can be considered a .308.. theyre both about 400ft/lbs away from their compared counterparts
Amen and I think it is done on purpose
Exactly right it is very close to the full power .308 the 300 AR is an excellent round. But then again the 5.56 is a do it all round. Close range ,long range, hunting grizzly, sinking aircraft carriers sniping etc hard to beat
So, if one wants to build a new .30RAR, who sells an upper assembly other than DPMS? Their website lists it as out of stock (well, like pretty much everything else).
All my internet searches either turn up "not found" or simply direct me to companies marketing generic 5.56mm uppers.
All my internet searches either turn up "not found" or simply direct me to companies marketing generic 5.56mm uppers.
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