Why Must the Hammer be Cocked

[MarKY Mark]

There seems to be some really smart people on this forum. Please allow me to ask a dumb question: Why was the 1911 designed so that the hammer must be cocked in order to put the thumb safety on?

I just bought a Ruger SR1911 (my first 1911, I've had a revolver for decades), and I love it. I plan on using this for home defense. I want to keep "8+1", but it would seem to me that it would be safer to NOT have the pistol cocked. However, CAREFULLY lowering the hammer with one in the chamber seems insanely unsafe.

 

[HKGuns]

Because if the hammer isn't cocked the pistol won't fire, therefore the only time you need the safety is when the hammer is cocked. The 1911 isn't a DA/SA where it might be of use for the thumb safety to work while the hammer is at rest. In addition, there are other safety features in the pistol that make it a very safe platform.

Edited to add: Yes, it makes me a bit nervous to lower the hammer with a live round in the chamber as well, but there are safe ways to accomplish the feat, it just takes practice without one in the chamber.

 

[mljdeckard]

Being able to visually see the hammer cocked gives some people the willies. But there are actually more mechanical process preventing it from firing than say, a Glock. Most of us who carry 1911s like not having a DA pull, and therefore no reason to have a safety on when the hammer is down.

 

[PlaneJain]

"CAREFULLY lowering the hammer with one in the chamber seems insanely unsafe."

You had a revolver for decades, did you ever 'de-cock' it? Ever?
And revolvers are the safest type of handgun in my opinion.

 

[Panzercat]

You literally have to have your hand fully grasped around the gun to disengage the backstrap safety to even think about pulling the trigger. Solution: Don't hold overly tight and/or don't touch the trigger. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong or oversimplifying this. It's kind of like the lever safety on leverguns in that regard-- You have to willfully hold it to disengage that particular one.

In terms of carefully lowering the hammer, that's easy too. Insert the knuckle of your thumb between the cocked hammer and the pin. Pull the trigger. It won't hurt, I promise. Release trigger, remove thumb. You have now easily and safely reverted you 1911 to half cocked status if you don't trust the safety lever on the side. But again, even if that lever was to 'accidentally' disengage, it's not going to fire from a fall and you have to meet the above two conditions to do it. I know it's obvious and I'm not trying to be facetious, but why is your finger on the trigger again?

Frankly, if you can carry a glock then you should be aware that a 1911 is a comparitive fortress of safety

 

[HKGuns]

Frankly, if you can carry a glock then you should be aware that a 1911 is a comparitive fortress of safety

Oh heck yea!

 

[tipoc]

It's a good question that goes to the design and evolution of the gun.

Because the 1911 is a single action, hammer fired gun it means that the only way for the gun to be fired is for the hammer to be cocked and the trigger pulled. This is the same as for a single action revolver like the Colt 1873 or the Ruger Blackhawk.

There are two ways to do this on a 1911. One way is for the gun to have a full magazine inserted in the weapon, when the slide is racked and released a round is loaded into the chamber and the gun is ready to fire with a pull of the trigger.

The second way is for a round to be in the chamber with the hammer either fully down or on the half cock notch. In this condition all that needs to be done is for the hammer to be cocked with the thumb and the gun fired with a pull of the trigger.

In either case every round in the mag will be automatically loaded and the hammer automatically cocked for each additional shot.

Now when the gun was first being tested by the military, before it was adopted for use, this posed a problem for the cavalry. The early versions of the gun had no thumb safety. They did have a grip safety so if the gun was dropped it would not fire. But the cavalry wanted more.

They had no problem racking the slide to bring the gun into action. They had no problem carrying the gun hammer down on a live round and thumb cocking it. Their problem was that while on horseback, after they had fired a few rounds and they were done shooting for the moment, they wanted to place the gun back in their full flap holsters and they didn't want the gun to be cocked when they did. Yet it usually took two hands to safely decock and one was on the reins of the horse. So a thumb safety was added.

The thumb safety was a brilliant way to solve a particular problem. Not only did it make the gun very safe to carry and to re-holster one handed, it also made it very quick to draw the gun, swipe off the safety, and be ready to fire.

The military liked this solution so much, and it proved to be so useful to all branches of the service that they kept it on the guns in service from 1911 to 1986, long after there was no longer a cavalry and longer than any other service sidearm before or since. (The 1911 in updated form is still in service in quite a number of areas of the military.) The military got a gun that could be carried three ways, hammer down on an empty chamber, hammer down on a loaded chamber, or cocked and locked, also known as Condition One.

It's Condition one that is most used for holster carry these days. Because it is safe for carry and the fastest way to bring the gun into action.

Lowering a hammer on a live round is a safe thing to do provided you have confidence in your own abilities and practice on an empty gun.

tipoc

 

[Cosmoline]

Why would you ever need to lower the hammer on a 1911?

 

[chuckpro]

In my eyes the safest way to carry a 1911 is locked and cocked. This is not because it is unsafe to carry it hammer down, but in a stress situation (self defense) the act of pushing the safety down is safer than cocking the hammer with your thumb. I may be way off base but i think there is more of a chance of you removing you thumb in a stress situation while cocking the gun with the trigger depressed then just training yourself to pushing the safety off. I love my 1911's but dont carry them because i dont care for any external safeties in SD guns but it is a personal preference. What ever you do training and practice is the most important thing.

 

[nwilliams]

The 1911 is supposed to be carried cocked and locked. If the hammer is down then the gun is not ready for use. You never want to carry a 1911 with the hammer down, when you have a fraction of a second to react and defend your life you don't want to be racking the slide to chamber a round or pulling back a hammer manually to ready your gun.

My thought about the 1911 is that if you are not comfortable carrying cocked and locked then you should pick a different gun then the 1911 to carry. I even carry an FNP cocked and locked and that's a DA/SA but if I have the option to carry a gun cocked and locked then that's how I carry.

 

[CajunBass]

I can't think of many reasons to decock a 1911, but it's hardly "insanely unsafe" to do so.

But I learned to decock a hammer with cap guns, and then single-shot shotguns. Never thought anything of it. Hard to imagine that anyone would think it was unsafe.

 

[Coltdriver]

Its a 1911 battery of arms.

For the modern battery of arms think H&K.

It is what it is.

 

[F-111 John]

Funny that some people, myself included, see a hammer back and are nervous, but since we don't see the striker pulled back inside of the slide, we don't have the same level of nervousness over it.

 

[HKGuns]

I'd like to point out that this is the individual's first post, so let's keep it high road on him. (Welcome to the forum BTW)

It is an honest and good question and this thread really shouldn't turn into a debate on 1911 carry.

 

[Hacker15E]

Let's also remember that the 1911 was designed to be used by soldiers used to carrying the Colt SAA.

It was "designed" without a thumb safety and to be carried like a single action revolver, with the hammer down or at the half cock notch.

The "cocked and locked" Condition 1 carry popularity is a late 20th century advent.

 

[NWcityguy2]

If you really feel that unsafe when lowering the hammer on a load chamber (which makes no sense as others have said) then let go of the trigger before you lower the hammer. Unless the trigger is depressed the hammer won't travel far enough to touch the firing pin because the sear will hit the safety catch first.

Honestly though if you are worried about capacity and don't want to have the hammer cocked, just buy a 10 round magazine and rack the slide if you need to use it. 10+0 is more than 8+1.

 

[NWcityguy2]

Let's also remember that the 1911 was designed to be used by soldiers used to carrying the Colt SAA.

It was "designed" without a thumb safety and to be carried like a single action revolver, with the hammer down or at the half cock notch.

The "cocked and locked" Condition 1 carry popularity is a late 20th century advent.

1911s have always had a thumb safety because they weren't 1911s until they were adopted by the armed forces. This is from FM 23-35, which is far from a late 20th century pub...

Do not lower the hammer on a loaded cartridge; the pistol is much safer cocked and locked

and

TO LOAD PISTOL - The commands are: 1. LOAD, 2. PISTOL.
At the command PISTOL, lower the pistol into the bridle hand. If a loaded magazine is not already in the pistol, insert one. Grasp the stock with the right hand, back of the hand down, and thrust upward and to the left front; release the slide and engage the safety lock.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/FM/PDFs/FM23-35.pdf

 

[Arp32]

I'm shocked this thread continued past the second post!

Because if the hammer isn't cocked the pistol won't fire.

 

[KenW.]

Browning's first submission of the pistol did not have a thumb safety. It came to be required by the Army Ordinance corps before adoption. I do not know what it was called before adoption. It may not have been named at all. It was, however, a prototype for the 1911 trials. There's one in his museum in Ogden Utah.

 

[mljdeckard]

Indeed there is, and I haven't seen it in a while. I need to take my boys back again.

 

[1911Tuner]

To address the OP's question:

Engaging the safety with the hammer down would serve no purpose at all. There was no need to design it to allow safety engagement in that condition.

The 1911 is supposed to be carried cocked and locked.

That's long been the cry, but it has no basis in fact. The US Army field manuals stated that the pistol was to be maintained with the hammer forward on an empty chamber until action was imminent. At that point the chamber was to be charged and the safety lock engaged. Once the emergency had passed, the pistol was to be returned to condition three...the same as it was for any weapon, be it pistol, rifle, or self-propelled howitzer.

There is no reason to lower the hammer

Despite this, the 1910 patents describe the method for lowering the hammer with one hand...and the redesigned grip safety tang that expedited lowering the hammer with one hand to the "Safety Position" of the half-cock. This neatly dispels with the widespread beliefs that the hammer should never be lowered and that the half-cock was never meant to be a safety.

And...The "locked" part of cocked and locked refers to the slide...not any function of the lockwork. It blocks the sear, but doesn't lock it...and it doesn't lock or block the hammer.

And...the grip safety was and is a drop-safe feature.

1911s have always had a thumb safety because they weren't 1911s until they were adopted by the armed forces.

Technically, that's correct...but had the US Cavalry not specifically requested the "Manual slide-locking safety" the Model of 1911 US Army would have looked like this.

Colt Model 1910 photo courtesy of Charles W. Clawson.

 

[Urban_Redneck]

Honestly though if you are worried about capacity and don't want to have the hammer cocked, just buy a 10 round magazine and rack the slide if you need to use it. 10+0 is more than 8+1.

+1

Aside from the potential for an accidental discharge when lowering the hammer, the modern, extended beavertail grip safety it can present a challenge when cocking the pistol one handed, especially under stress . I have large hands and I cannot depress the grip safety and cock the pistol one handed

You might be wise to practice one handed racking of the slide in your pajamas as first time you jam the rear sight into the flesh of your leg and drive the gun down to cycle slide can be an eye opener

There is a reason Col Cooper called it "Condition One and Only".

YMMV

 

[1911Tuner]

There is a reason Col Cooper called it "Condition One and Only"

While I don't wish to denigrate the good Colonel's teachings, it would be good to remember what and who the 1911 pistol was designed for.

To wit:

It was designed specifically for a military entity with heavy input from the cavalry branch...mounted cavalry...not so that it could be used by high-speed/low-drag SWAT types to execute fast draws at high noon. Carrying cocked and locked, while unarguably the fastest, most expedient mode for deploying the pistol in a hurry, was not what it was designed for.

It can be carried cocked and locked...but it wasn't designed specifically to be carried that way...nor does it hold exclusive claim to that condition.

 

[CDW4ME]

Springfiled XD series is fully cocked if loaded, you just can't see it.

Glocks are not fully cocked, but they are "pre-cocked" or almost there.

 

[TCBPATRIOT]

Yes you can see that the XD is cocked and locked. The loaded chamber indicator on top of the slide and the pin sticking out of the rear of the slide.