Why Must the Hammer be Cocked

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Panzercat said:
Frankly, if you can carry a glock then you should be aware that a 1911 is a comparitive fortress of safety :)
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Unless it's in the movies. Isn't it funny when they make the "ratcheting click" sound to cock the hammer of a Glock or similarly hammer-less handgun, for dramatic effect? (The TV series "Lost" was notorious at hammer-cocking action, and yes, they did "cock" Glocks for dramatic flair...)

It always makes me laugh.

Bad guy chases good guy, or vice versa. They get cornered. Big dramatic standoff.

"Don't move or I'll shoot!"

"Rack Slide" / "Cock Hammer of 1911"

"I'm serious!" (Now that I've remembered my gun was non-functional!!!)

Idiots. :)
 
Trent said:
Unless it's in the movies. Isn't it funny when they make the "ratcheting click" sound to cock the hammer of a Glock or similarly hammer-less handgun, for dramatic effect? (The TV series "Lost" was notorious at hammer-cocking action, and yes, they did "cock" Glocks for dramatic flair...)

It always makes me laugh.

Bad guy chases good guy, or vice versa. They get cornered. Big dramatic standoff.

"Don't move or I'll shoot!"

"Rack Slide" / "Cock Hammer of 1911"

"I'm serious!" (Now that I've remembered my gun was non-functional!!!)

Idiots. :)
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The last Bourne movie was almost comical with gun racking sound effects.
 
I'd like to point out that this is the individual's first post, so let's keep it high road on him. (Welcome to the forum BTW)

+1

And welcome from Alaska. And asking any kind of question is always a good thing. Even though some of our answers may seem sarcastic, we all are here to help. And as it has been said before, Practice, practice, practice on an empty gun, and condition yourself that it is naturally easy and safe to lower the hammer down on a gun.
 
Thanks for the Advice

Fellows,
Thanks for the GREAT advice!

A little personal history: I bought a Ruger.357 Security Six (used), 4" barrel in 1981 and I have used it for home defense ever since. I like the safety and reliability of a revolver, and I learned that with that model, the transfer bar will not allow the firing pin to strike the primer unless the trigger is pulled. That way, even with a loaded chamber (I always load six), the gun could be dropped on the hammer and still won't fire. Then I can safely store the weapon in a gun safe, retrieve it if necessary, and SA or DA the first round. It takes a very deliberate trigger pull to make that revolver fire.

So, when I considered entering the modern era with a semi-automatic for home defense, I was thinking along the same lines. That is, a round in the chamber and hammer down. Then I could manually cock the hammer with my thumb and drop the thumb safety. Obviously, the mechanics of a revolver and a semi-automatic are vastly different. So I tried to research what is considered safe with a 1911.

Yes, I have de-cocked my loaded .357 (safely pointed downrange), but it makes me nervous because it has an "over center" feel. In other words, the trigger starts out easy but can quickly get away from you. My SR1911 acts the same way. Maybe with some practice I can master this. Also, with my revolver I can easily cock the trigger with my thumb. I haven't quite mastered that either with the 1911, if it is even posible. From what I have read above, it may not be.

After reading all this, I think I will keep the 1911 in the gun safe in "locked and cocked". I don't want to risk racking it wrong until I get more familiar with it.

Thanks again for the great advice.
 
Hey welcome to THR! I didn't realize you were a new member earlier. :)

Oh, and don't trust those transfer bars TOO much. A sufficiently hard strike will still set them off.... Although your chances of catching one through the brain-pan on a drop are remarkably less than one without. :)

When decocking on a live chamber, I ALWAYS put my thumb between the hammer and the frame to stop the hammer. Then I remove my finger from the trigger and guide it down. That way the transfer bar is sure to back off before the hammer can possibly let loose.

Fine motor skills (such as cocking a hammer) are hit & miss under stress & adrenaline. 1911's should be kept cocked & locked if you want them ready to use.

Likewise, when using the slide, always grip with your fingers and palm, all the way to the rear, and release - not your fingers and thumb, and don't try to guide it forward. You won't hurt the gun's feelings when you let the slide loose to ram home.

If you are used to actuating the slide with your fingers and thumb, it will feel weird at first to do it with the fingers and palm (it's a totally different grip). But... One is a gross motor skill, the other a fine motor skill. Which are you more likely to screw up under stress? Train like you fight. :)
 
Practice, Practice, Practice

Thanks for the advice Trent. I think I'm really going to like my 1911. I may have to finally retire my revolver. But first: practice, practice, practice.
 
Wow, I can't believe all the stress people still feel about de-cocking a 1911! Just don't try to be a cowboy and do it one-handed and it's a piece of cake. Use both hands, grasp the hammer with thumb and first two fingers of the left hand with the second finger under the hammer. Pull the trigger, and gently lower the hammer. It's so easy it's almost mindless to do.

Anybody that can't do that or is scared to try it shouldn't have a 1911. It's just a basic function of the pistol, anybody should be able to decock one easily and safely without even thinking about it.

And anybody that asks why you'd ever need to decock one, or thinks it isn't safe or never should be done? I have to wonder about people like that.
 
Almost every modern service rifle, carbine, shotgun, and subgun is carried cocked and locked in a ready situation.
Nobody even thinks about decocking any of them. For lots of good reasons.
None of these weapons are designed to require delicate handling.
Neither is the 1911.
 
1911Tuner said:
Technically, that's correct...but had the US Cavalry not specifically requested the "Manual slide-locking safety" the Model of 1911 US Army would have looked like this.
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Why did they request a "slide-locking" safety? Did they fear that re-holstering the pistol at full gallop could partially cycle the slide, potentially causing a subsequent malfunction?

Seems that most of the "safer", cocked & unlocked, striker-fired pistols don't do this either.

Andy
 
Did they fear that re-holstering the pistol at full gallop could partially cycle the slide, potentially causing a subsequent malfunction?
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Yes. The slide locking safety was to prevent the gun from going out of battery when holstering.
 
Got me on a technicality

TCBPATRIOT said:
Yes you can see that the XD is cocked and locked. The loaded chamber indicator on top of the slide and the pin sticking out of the rear of the slide.
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Yes, it does have a loaded chamber indicator as do the current Glocks with the bump on the extractor.

I was talking about the cocked / "pre-cocked" striker.
 
Glocks are not fully cocked, but they are "pre-cocked" or almost there.
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Glocks are about 50% cocked if you want to talk about striker positioning, or about 25% cocked if you phrase it in terms of the energy stored in the striker spring. Not really "almost there" by either measure, but it would be accurate to say that they are partially cocked.

The amount of preload on the striker varies by pistol design/brand, from zero--like the ill-fated Colt 2000 to essentially 100% as already noted in the Springfield pistol.
 
Why did they request a "slide-locking" safety? Did they fear that re-holstering the pistol at full gallop could partially cycle the slide, potentially causing a subsequent malfunction?
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That's one part of it. It was the cavalry that wanted the thumb safety. Other units of the military had no problem drawing the gun, racking the slide, shooting a few rounds, decocking and then holstering the weapon and doing it over again for a few more rounds. But doing that on horseback became a problem. At least they didn't complain about it the way the horse soldiers did.

The 1911 is not as easily decocked one handed as revolvers are. While decocking a 1911 can be done one handed it's much more trouble with one hand on the reins of a horse and one holding the gun. So the thumb safety solved a problem, how to make the gun safe for holstering and drawing it again while on horseback. It also made the gun safe while riding in between strings of fire. The thumb safety could be placed on and the gun is safe to chase a fellow at full gallop or try to control a bucking horse and not accidentally pull the trigger.

The other way to solve for the same problem was the decocker as it appears on the Polish Radom Vis or P35. The Radom was/is a single action 9mm pistol designed for the cavalry as well.
tipoc
 
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Why did they request a "slide-locking" safety?
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In the event of having to hurriedly reholster the pistol so that full attention could be directed to the horse, the slide could be pushed out of battery, and...under harsh conditions and likely infrequent cleaning and maintenance...possibly have it not return to battery upon re-drawing the piece.

Not a good thing to have happen during a headlong cavalry charge.

Was it a problem or a frequent occurrence? No. It was a matter of nipping a possible problem in the bud before it cost a man his life.

On the cocking/decocking question:

If the weapon has and exposed hammer, and that hammer has a textured surface in the form of checkering, stippling, or anything that would aid in the thumb gripping it...you can go ahead and assume that it was meant to be manipulated with the thumb.
 
Newer ones with beavertail grip safeties and short rounded hammers are quite difficult to cock or decock one-handed, as well as Commanders.
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Sometimes true, but if needed two hands can work.

How about the fact that you can't unload it without taking the safety off.
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I'm not sure of what the point is that is being made but yes, you drop the mag, swipe off the thumb safety if on, and rack the slide to clear the chamber and lock the slide to the rear.

tipoc
 
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The 1911 quite secure when carried or stored cocked/locked. Unless your hand is on that grip safety, and the manual safety is off, the gun will not fire. You can throw a 1911 around all day, trying to get it to fire, but unless the grip safety is depressed... it won't happen. Though that seems ill-advised. Now, if you DO have the grip safety depressed, then that means it's in your hand. Which means you should be observing all safety measures, regardless of trigger system. If you're uncomfortable with seeing the cocked hammer, then you could learn to "safely" decock it. 1911Tuner has a nice how-to on it somewhere around here. I personally think it's pointless to do that, but then again... I carry a Glock. lol
 
Newer ones with beavertail grip safeties and short rounded hammers are quite difficult to cock or decock one-handed, as well as Commanders.
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Yeah. That's what happens when we seek to "improve" an existing successful design. There's almost always something lost for something gained.

And difficult doesn't mean impossible.

And I've never had a problem with Commanders with standard grip safety tangs.

How about the fact that you can't unload it without taking the safety off.
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Not an issue as long as you keep your finger off the trigger. Pulling the trigger fires the gun. If you don't want the gun to fire, don't pull the trigger. It's really that simple.
 
It defeats the purpose of a manual safety if you have to take it off to unload the gun. You might as well not have it at that point.
 
It defeats the purpose of a manual safety if you have to take it off to unload the gun. You might as well not have it at that point.
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Let's try again.

If you don't want the gun to fire, don't pull the trigger.

Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction whenever you're handling it...regardless of the status of any safety device.

Depending on a mechanical device to replace personal responsibility will likely lead you to grief because no loaded gun an ever be completely safe.

Bottom line:

Is gun. Gun not safe.

Be well.
 
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