Why no bolt gun in 7.62x39 ,or 5.45×39mm?

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I think an H&R handi-rifle in 7.62x39 would be a terrific CHEAP idea. I know they have chambered it in the past, but lacking a heavy enough hammer drop to penetrate the tough surplus primers. Add a hammer and FP up to the job and I would buy it.
 
Im telling you, I put my interarms mark x on gun trader to see what it would get.. Didn't really have intention of selling it.. I got a few offers above 800 dollars for what would honestly probably be a 350 dollar rifle... The cz is like hens teeth, very hard to get, last time I looked I found a guy who had one and wanted a grand for it... Here at thr, theres a lot of traditional type shooters... In the rest of the world though, theres plenty of demand for a x39 bolt gun, whether it be practical or not. Your horse isn't as high as you think it is.
 
Russian caliber ammo instantly brings to mind AKMs and SKS rifles, firearms never known for stellar accuracy. While it is true there USED to be widely available piles of surplus ammo, that ammunition wasn't exactly match grade, and while a good fit for ComBloc rifles, most didn't work exceedingly well in a bolt action rifle.
How do I know?

Because this CZ 527M is mine. caliber 7.62x39mm.

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Why did I get this little carbine? Easy - I already reloaded 7.62x39mm and really liked the idea of a light and handy camp rifle that was a more accurate bolt action as well as a detachable magazine rifle. The CZ 527M fit the bill.

It worked well for me in its original guise - please note, I am NO great rifle shot.

527withbushnell2.jpg

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Started experimenting with casting my own bullets for the caliber, too,

CZ5272ndcast.jpg

Until I got my NOE 129grain mold and some hard good lead, it didn't work extremely well, but that changed. That's a GREAT bullet!

I mentioned to a gunsmith friend of mine of my idea for a camp/scout carbine, with a spare magazine in the stock and a handy pistol grip, but something that shouldn't cause loose bowels among the week-kneed crowds of out of state tourists. He took the idea and ran with it, creating this,

527CSR1_zpsaf7e3935.jpg

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Took it hunting the other day,

527CSRgoeshunting_zps87077733.gif


When we decided 112 degrees was a wee bit too warn to be wandering the desert, we did a little informal target practice on some foam plates one gent brought, and I did get this group,

527CSRoffhandshooting6302013_zps777aa47d.jpg

I think the caliber, loaded right and with someone, (unlike me), who can shoot straight has a lot of potential. It it was renamed/rebadged to some American sounding name it would be looked at in a better light by bolt action rifle enthusiasts, but sold as it is, it will always be looked down and sneered at. That's OK, more components for me. If you don't like it, no biggie - I can't find a single use for .243, myself, but lots and lots of people love it.;)

The beauty of America - diversity of choice.:cool:
 
7.62x39 ammo is 1/3 the price of 308. A reason good enough to shoot them. 7.62x39 bolt guns are hard to find, a proof that there is a great demand. While ammo is cheap, there is no cheap bolt gun for the caliber! If Savage delivers a Stevens in 7.62x39, it will sell fast.
 
HankC said:
7.62x39 ammo is 1/3 the price of 308. A reason good enough to shoot them. 7.62x39 bolt guns are hard to find, a proof that there is a great demand. While ammo is cheap, there is no cheap bolt gun for the caliber! If Savage delivers a Stevens in 7.62x39, it will sell fast.
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That isn't exactly true. If I compare brass cased boxer primed 7.62X39 manufactured by a manufacturer like Winchester or Remington to 308 Winchester made by the same manufacturers in brass cased boxer primed the cost is far from 2/3 less for the 7.62X39. Now if we compare steel cased Wolf or similar 7.62X39 to brass cased 308 then yes, the 7.62X39 is about 1/2 the cost. Can you show me an example comparing like products?

Next while the 7.62X39 is on par with for example the 30-30 Winchester there is no comparison between performance and loadings of the 308 Winchester.

Finally again there were several US manufacturers who jumped on the 7.62X39 offering in their bolt guns during the 90s. Why did they remove the offering?

The 7.62X39 is a good cartridge and does exactly what it was designed to do. It has a good following but apparently not a strong enough following to warrant many manufacturers to return to chambering their bolt guns in the cartridge. If the demand was there they would be producing them. This does leave a nice niche for CZ who does make them.

Anyway if we are to compare ammunition prices between the 7.62X39 and 308 Winchester it should be done as apples to apples and not steel cased Wolf or general steel cased stuff to reloadable boxer primed brass stuff. Also, 7.62X39 brass cased boxer primed isn't all that inexpensive.

Ron
 
brass cased boxer primed 7.62X39
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Come on. Not many people would spend the money to shoot brass cased 7.62x39 while steel case are on the cheap. Of course I was talking about steel case x39.
Finally again there were several US manufacturers who jumped on the 7.62X39 offering in their bolt guns during the 90s. Why did they remove the offering?
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In the 90s you can buy SKS and AK at the cheap, SKS was like $90? and AK was like $190? How would bolt guns compete at the price range. Now SKSs and AKs are much more expensive compare to cheap bolt guns (Stevens, Axis), there is a market for it. I already have couple 7.62x39 bolt guns built on Mausers and really enjoy shooting the cheap steel case ammo.
 
Come on. Not many people would spend the money to shoot brass cased 7.62x39 while steel case are on the cheap. Of course I was talking about steel case x39.
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I hunted for years with high quality brass cased 7.62x39, as have many other members here. It's a dandy mid range hunting chambering for anything under 400lbs and inside of 200-250 yards.

And I hunted with both an AR in 7.62x39 and a Ruger 77 MkII.
 
HankC said:
Come on. Not many people would spend the money to shoot brass cased 7.62x39 while steel case are on the cheap. Of course I was talking about steel case x39.

In the 90s you can buy SKS and AK at the cheap, SKS was like $90? and AK was like $190? How would bolt guns compete at the price range. Now SKSs and AKs are much more expensive compare to cheap bolt guns (Stevens, Axis), there is a market for it. I already have couple 7.62x39 bolt guns built on Mausers and really enjoy shooting the cheap steel case ammo.
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I still contend if the market was there they would make them. I just figure the guys building rifles will build for a market that exist enough to make it worth it to them. I also mentioned that the cartridge did have a strong following but in my opinion and just my opinion there isn't enough market.

Even when a SKS was $90 they were more a novelty for the serious rifle shooter, those guys who really enjoy a bolt gun. A good bolt gun will totally out shoot any SKS or AK variant in 7.62X39.

Anyway, all in all you see a market for the 7.62X39 bolt guns and I just don't. I just fall into the group that figures they aren't made to any great extent as there would be no money in it. I agree it would be nice to see Stevens / Savage come out with a reasonably priced offering in the cartridge just to see if it in fact does take off.

The irony of all of this is that I still have a single SKS I seldom shoot. However, I likely have several thousand rounds of 7.62X39 ammunition laying around going back over 20 years or so. That includes some Remington brass cased stuff we used to sell for about $7.00 a box. The Chinese Norinco we were selling for $2.00 a box. Go figure, the caliber I shoot the least of and haven't shot in a decade I have more of than the calibers I regularly shoot.

Ron
 
Reloadron said:
I still contend if the market was there they would make them. I just figure the guys building rifles will build for a market that exist enough to make it worth it to them. I also mentioned that the cartridge did have a strong following but in my opinion and just my opinion there isn't enough market.

Even when a SKS was $90 they were more a novelty for the serious rifle shooter, those guys who really enjoy a bolt gun. A good bolt gun will totally out shoot any SKS or AK variant in 7.62X39.

Anyway, all in all you see a market for the 7.62X39 bolt guns and I just don't. I just fall into the group that figures they aren't made to any great extent as there would be no money in it. I agree it would be nice to see Stevens / Savage come out with a reasonably priced offering in the cartridge just to see if it in fact does take off.

The irony of all of this is that I still have a single SKS I seldom shoot. However, I likely have several thousand rounds of 7.62X39 ammunition laying around going back over 20 years or so. That includes some Remington brass cased stuff we used to sell for about $7.00 a box. The Chinese Norinco we were selling for $2.00 a box. Go figure, the caliber I shoot the least of and haven't shot in a decade I have more of than the calibers I regularly shoot.

Ron
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I think you may be underestimating the little x39...

I think a lot of the reason why the American public thinks the x39 is an inaccurate cartridge is BECAUSE we shoot them out of our AK's and SKS's. My Interarms is surprisingly accurate at 100 yards, and while I'm not the best rifle shooter, I've managed 3 shot groups that are no bigger than a half dollar. With tula wolf and wpa no less.
 
xxjumbojimboxx said:
I think you may be underestimating the little x39...

I think a lot of the reason why the American public thinks the x39 is an inaccurate cartridge is BECAUSE we shoot them out of our AK's and SKS's. My Interarms is surprisingly accurate at 100 yards, and while I'm not the best rifle shooter, I've managed 3 shot groups that are no bigger than a half dollar. With tula wolf and wpa no less.
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Never said it was inaccurate, I said it was a good cartridge and does well what it was designed to do. I also went on and said:

A good bolt gun will totally out shoot any SKS or AK variant in 7.62X39.
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Meaning a good bolt gun in the cartridge will deliver just fine and a well made bolt gun like the CZ will, as shown, deliver excellent accuracy. To up that one it could likely be taken farther with hand loads. I also said the cartridge was on par with the 30-30 Winchester but there is no comparison between the 7.62X39 and the 308 Winchester. I am not knocking the 7.62X39 as it is a good cartridge.

What I did say is that I was in the corner with those who believe if more manufacturers took the cartridge on today, again in their bolt guns, I doubt it would sell well enough. Today CZ has a nice niche in that offering.

Ron
 
Didn't Savage recently offer their 'scout' rifle in x39 for a short time?

Sorry guy, but the cold truth is that x39 bolt guns don't sell. They have been tried many times by virtually every manufacturer, and they have bombed almost universally.
 
I passed up one of the 7.7mm Japanese Arisaka carbines sleeved to 7.62x39mm by the Chinese and sold surplus a while back at gun shows for $39. Did anyone here buy one? If you bought one, did you shoot it?
 
Sorry guy, but the cold truth is that x39 bolt guns don't sell. They have been tried many times by virtually every manufacturer, and they have bombed almost universally.
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Bombed? not really. But they certainly do not sell in nearly the numbers as other offerings.

Part of the issue is the odd sized bolt face that can be shared with no other chambering (save perhaps 6.5 Grendel, if the manufacturer chooses to chase that one) in a given manufacturer's lineup. The need for a chambering-specific part requires that the gun either be more expensive than its brethren, have less of a profit margin than its brethren, or that it sell in adequate quantities to justify the tooling/line setup for the unique bolt. I suspect that the latter never happens and that the market won't bear the former, leaving a slimmer margin as the most common path.
 
I looked for some time for a CZ-527M in 7.62x39mm and finally stumbled into one at Cabelas. I purchased it retail without hesitation and have been enjoying it ever since.

These rifles are solid performers and are capable of some fine accuracy and the 7.62x9mm delivers excellent performance on deer here in MN.

Keep shooting,

Don
 
Junk caliber! Inferior to just about everything out there!
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What an uninformed and silly statement, reminiscent of the sort that children make when they want attention.

I suppose that it feels good to have an opinion, but it's generally considered appropriate to have some facts in hand before making assertions in public.
 
Well, the 7.62x39 cartridge is really underpowered for a rifle round. It works well for what it was intended. However, I can't think of another rifle cartridge that is moving any slower, except maybe the 300 Blackout, and that is made for subsonic ammo through a silencer.

The 243, 7mm-08, 260 rem, 6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm mauser, 6.5x55, 30-30 and others will all out-perform it, and you can find well made, brass cased hunting and target rounds for them. If good ammo were commonly available for the 7.62x39 and it was less expensive than the others, then it might be a good short range/plinking gun.
 
For my intended purpose, it fit the bill perfectly and my 12-yr old son has his first deer rifle.

Short overall length
Lightweight
Bolt action
Capable of accepting optics
Detachable magazine
Powerful cartridge for deer hunting (shots between 20 to 125 yards)
Manageable recoil


After acquiring one, I have really enjoyed shooting it with my son and that's reason enough for me to own it.

Keep shooting,

Don
 
I would be happy if I could FIND any of those un-sold Savage rifles in 7.62x39...or enough parts to convert one of my existing rifles to 7.62x39. Here's a clue...whoever bought the ones that DID sell....ain't partin' with 'em!
 
Companies that make or have made single or bolt-action 7.62x39mm rifles:

CZ
NEF
Savage
Remington
Rossi

I have one of the Rossis. It won't reliably fire even US commercial ammo.

John
 
Well, the 7.62x39 cartridge is really underpowered for a rifle round. It works well for what it was intended. However, I can't think of another rifle cartridge that is moving any slower, except maybe the 300 Blackout, and that is made for subsonic ammo through a silencer.
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7.62x39 is what is termed an 'intermediate' chambering; it's deliberately intended to be less powerful (with less recoil, blast, weight, and cost) than full power chamberings. Other examples of intermediate chamberings include 5.56NATO/223, 6.8SPC, 6.5 Grendel, and so forth.

The intermediate chamberings are popular for hunting when the game isn't too large or too far away to necessitate more powerful options. I've used it for hog up to 500lbs at contact distance, and deer sized game at longer distances (inside of 250 yards), as have many others on this forum.
 
xxjumbojimboxx said:
good luck finding one though. At least around here none of the store in central texas caryy such a thing, and when they try to order them, they're sold out
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Just picked up a Ruger at John's in Bastrop. When I looked at the one on display and said I'd take it he went to the back and got a virgin from stock.

Why? Because Central Texas deer are smaller than my Lab and my 308 is a 700P. I wanted something that was light and compact yet with recoil mild enough that SHE would shoot it because it is not uncomfortable.

So far so good.
 
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