Why no modern top break revolvers?

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Owen Sparks

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After handling a reproduction Schofield this weekend, I cant help but wonder why no one makes a modern double action top break. I realize that they may not be strong enough for some magnum calibers, but what if someone made a .45ACP or 8 shot .38 top break with automatic ejection that took full moon clips?

A revolver like that would be VERY competitive in IDPA.
 
Lack of strength.

Still, it seems like one could be made for some of the currently available calibers.
 
I agree it would be nice, but it will never happen.

The top-break design is inherently weak, and prone to early wear & looseness at the joints. Even in the lesser calibers.

If they built them heavy enough to take the pounding, nobody would buy them because they would weigh a ton.
They also require a lot of hand fitting that would drive the price up well over conventional modern designs.

I doubt any manufacture wants to take on that kind of warranty work load from the high round-count IDPA shooters that would wear them out on a monthly basis.

rc
 
I doubt any IDPA shooters would buy them.H&R still made them into the late sixtys,early seventys,so I doubt difficulty of manufacture has anything to do with it.The inherent weakness of the design?Well,I had one [Webley] in .45 acp,and still have a War Finish Webley .38,so I think it would handle .32 H&R just fine.In fact, if NEF or whoever is the current owner of H&R's machinery would put one out in .32 with a 4'' barrel, I think they'd make a good trail gun.The problem with the top break isn't design,it's marketing.The world has moved on.
 
I would love one but thats just me. I'm going to buy a H&R as soon as I can and maybe a Uberti repro when I have the money.
 
Demand in the market. When there's little demand, it's not worth the costs of making them. Simple business sense.
 
Yeah, it's gotta fit in da box. If it wasn't too fat to fit in da box, it'd be fine in revolver class.
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No it doesn't. Revolvers are not required to fit The Box at all. Just a 4" barrel maximum and a weight limit.

Is there a six shot rule for revolvers?
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Yes. You could theoretically USE an 8 shot, but you could only load six.
 
To me, the most desirable (more features) modern top-break is the Beretta Laramie. You need some deep pockets to afford a gun like this, but none of the other top-breaks on the market are cheap either. That's because, as one previous poster pointed out, the world has moved on to more cost-efficient designs.
 
Hi, BHP FAN,

I assume your .45 ACP Webley is one of many converted from .455. I strongly suggest you not shoot it with full power (GI Spec) .45 ACP ammunition or .45 Auto Rim factory spec. I have seen chambers blown out with GI ball. Not too surprising as the standard .45 ACP pressure is easy twice the pressure of the .455 Webley and half again the .455 proof pressure.

Edited to add: Just reread your post and you say "had", so I assume you no longer have the .45 Webley. But I will leave this posting for the info of others.

Jim
 
You could theoretically USE an 8 shot, but you could only load six.
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Yes, LOAD six. If they allowed you to load EIGHT and then only FIRE 6, you'd see more of them, both 8-shot revolvers and shooters, at the matches

Silly rule as it stands.
 
Yes, LOAD six. If they allowed you to load EIGHT and then only FIRE 6, you'd see more of them, both 8-shot revolvers and shooters, at the matches
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Oh have some small, tiny bit of pity on the poor SOs! I'm sure we'd learn to deal with it, but making us count every string of rounds fired by anyone who shows up with an 8-shot is just torture and grief!

Standing there arguing some kind of reverse-Dirty-harry dialogue..."Now you know what I'm thinking...Did you fire seven shots or only six, after that first reload? Well, to tell you the truth in all the excitement, I kind of forgot myself. So, we're going to count empties. Empty your pockets! Do you feel LUCKY? Well, do you PUNK?" :D

-Sam
 
''Hi, BHP FAN,

I assume your .45 ACP Webley is one of many converted from .455. I strongly suggest you not shoot it with full power (GI Spec) .45 ACP ammunition or .45 Auto Rim factory spec. I have seen chambers blown out with GI ball. Not too surprising as the standard .45 ACP pressure is easy twice the pressure of the .455 Webley and half again the .455 proof pressure.

Edited to add: Just reread your post and you say "had", so I assume you no longer have the .45 Webley. But I will leave this posting for the info of others...''

I hand load,and cast my own bullets,so it was no big deal to tailor a load to the gun. I should have kept it,but it went to a good home with a good friend,so,no worries.
 
Yes, LOAD six. If they allowed you to load EIGHT and then only FIRE 6, you'd see more of them, both 8-shot revolvers and shooters, at the matches
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That's USPSA. You may load however many the cylinder holds but must reload after six shots.

Personally, I think IDPA ought to let 8 shot revolvers compete in ESP with the autos, but I don't make the rules.
 
Personally, I think IDPA ought to let 8 shot revolvers compete in ESP with the autos
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Hear hear! Amen. Might not be a perfect compromise, but a cool one. How about letting them compete with CDP? I know the name of the division would be off a bit, and there's the 165K power floor question...but, most of those 8-shots are .357s, so certainly no problem there!

-Sam
 
Well, when I was shooting IDPA, I had a hard enough time with reloads on my Ruger autos. Lord help me with a speed loader. LOL

There is also a minimum power factor to make, though it ain't that high and it ain't hard to make with smaller calibers. I'd wanna make sure the gun could handle the pressure of whatever caliber I was shooting with a minimum power factor. Call me crazy, but I'm a bit wary of a top break design holding up with modern pressure rounds like .38 special and .45ACP and .40 S&W.

If I go shoot IDPA again, I'll just take an auto, though, not being Jerry Miculek with the reloads and all. :D
 
The Rex, made in russia:
mp-412-1.jpg


Chambered in .357 mag
 
Man! I would love to get ahold of one of these. Unfortunately, Slick Willy did us like he did Monica and we'll never see this unique pistol produced. They were obviously ahead of their time with the steel/polymer frame.

mp-412-1.jpg

mp-412-2.jpg


The Izhmash MP412 REX (Revolver for EXport)
Type: Double Action
Caliber: .357 Magnum
Weight unloaded: 0.9 kg
Length: 232mm (4" barrel)
Barrel length: 102mm (4") or 152mm (6")
Capacity: 6 rounds

The MP-412 revolver has been designed at IZHMECH (State-owned Russian Izhevsk Mechanical Plant, a large factory known as a prime maker of Makarov PM pistols among other things). This revolver was intended for export, as a handgun ownership is generally prohibited for ordinary citizens in Russia. First prototypes of REX (Revolver for EXport) revolver were displayed at IWA-2000 arms exhibition in Nurenberg (Germany). It is not exactly known what killed this rather interesting project, but most possibly it was a lack of market, as the biggest export market, the USA, has been closed for Russian handguns since mid-1990s, because of Clinton / Yeltsyn mutual agreement.

The MP-412 is a double action revolver with break-open frame and simultaneous extraction. The bottom frame is of composite type - it consists of a steel basic frame and a polymer envelope, which forms the grip and trigger guard. Polymer grip / trigger guard unit can be removed from steel frame if necessary. Trigger is of conventional type, double / single action, with exposed hammer. Firing pin is mounted in the frame. Barrel / cylinder group latch is located at the top rear of the frame, and is operated by two buttons that must be pushed inwards to unlock the frame. Cylinder holds 6 rounds and has an automatic ejector that throws the cases out of cylinder once barrel is fully tipped down. If necessary, automatic ejection feature can be manually switched off.
 
The only factors against the manufacture of new break open revolvers is that the main demand for them are side matches for CAS and SASS shooting matches, and the other is collectors who want something different to shoot once in a while that isnt polymer or the typical SAA or "dirty harry wannabe special".

IF people would get past the fetish and brainwash idea that you need to have at least 15 rounds in a handgun for self defense, you would have a decent market open up.
A matte stainless steel sw break open in 38 sw, or 38spcl with or without a moon clip block would be a very fun thing to have.
 
The locking area in the frame of that Izhmash looks very small to handle the pressures of a .357. Top breaks usually don't loosen up all at once, but over time. It might work OK for a while (500 rds? 1000 rds?), but IMHO it will shoot loose pretty quickly.

Jim
 
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