fjolnirsson
Member
btt, for new members.
Why open carry is bad.
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chas_martel
Member
Wildalaska,
I think you need to do a little bit of research about what the word
"regulated" means.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with "restricting" what I might "possess".
It has everything to do with being well trained and equiped.
I forget who it was, but I believe it was a SC justice or one of the founding fathers that said we must go back in time and use the context and words
of the day to determine the meaning of the constitution.
Interpreting the word "regulated" to mean having laws passed that restrict our 2nd Amd Rights is WRONG!
I think you need to do a little bit of research about what the word
"regulated" means.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with "restricting" what I might "possess".
It has everything to do with being well trained and equiped.
I forget who it was, but I believe it was a SC justice or one of the founding fathers that said we must go back in time and use the context and words
of the day to determine the meaning of the constitution.
Interpreting the word "regulated" to mean having laws passed that restrict our 2nd Amd Rights is WRONG!
Chip Dixon
Member
chas_martel beat me to it.
Wild_Alaska, the term "well regulated", as used in the second amendment, means well trained and outfitted. It doesn't mean restricted. It is by sheer coincidence that the word regulated is no longer used in the context that is was used at the time that the bill of rights was written.
Another word commonly misunderstood in the second amendment is 'militia'. Many people think this means the modern national guard.
Sure, that may be what the federal govt. calls it today, but when the second amendment was written that ment every able bodied male 17+.
One must have an understanding of the language that a document is written in before they can read it and understand what it means. The constitution and bill of rights may be in 'english', but it is not 21st century english. The bill of rights should not be castrated just because some of the words in it have changed their meaning over time. It should be interpreted as it was originally intended.
To say that only "cosmetic" things were banned by the AWB speaks of your ignorance of the bill. Are new high capacity magazines aesthetic? Collapsible stocks are definately not just aesthetic. Grenade launchers are not aesthetic. Pistol grips are not aesthetic. These are all very functional parts of a weapons system that have a purpose, and definately infringe upon my right (as a member of the militia as defined when the constitution was written) to keep and bear arms in a well regulated (best equipped and trained) fashion.
The AWB is blatantly unconstitutional.
And about open carry: I'll open carry a gun if it does not conceal well, otherwise it is tactically superior to conceal the gun, as long as it is holstered in a fashion that it can be quickly dispatched if needed. I'll gladly open carry my shotgun, N/L-Frame S&Ws, and rifles, but the 1911, K and J-Frame S&Ws stay covered by my shirt. If I won't be arrested for doing so, and I feel inclined to, I'll gladly open carry -- unless I'll be in a very crowded area. It's a pain to have to constantly make sure no one is looking to grab your piece off of your waist and run down the alley somewhere while you're busy. No one would know what's up if I was carrying my 1911 IWB. I have no reservations about debating anyone who feels I should not have a gun, so the whole "offending people" thing doesn't bother me -- as I would not be inclined to open carry a rifle, shotgun, or large revolver in situations where it would be inappropriate. (in liberal homes, etc.)
Wild_Alaska, the term "well regulated", as used in the second amendment, means well trained and outfitted. It doesn't mean restricted. It is by sheer coincidence that the word regulated is no longer used in the context that is was used at the time that the bill of rights was written.
Another word commonly misunderstood in the second amendment is 'militia'. Many people think this means the modern national guard.
Sure, that may be what the federal govt. calls it today, but when the second amendment was written that ment every able bodied male 17+.
One must have an understanding of the language that a document is written in before they can read it and understand what it means. The constitution and bill of rights may be in 'english', but it is not 21st century english. The bill of rights should not be castrated just because some of the words in it have changed their meaning over time. It should be interpreted as it was originally intended.
To say that only "cosmetic" things were banned by the AWB speaks of your ignorance of the bill. Are new high capacity magazines aesthetic? Collapsible stocks are definately not just aesthetic. Grenade launchers are not aesthetic. Pistol grips are not aesthetic. These are all very functional parts of a weapons system that have a purpose, and definately infringe upon my right (as a member of the militia as defined when the constitution was written) to keep and bear arms in a well regulated (best equipped and trained) fashion.
The AWB is blatantly unconstitutional.
And about open carry: I'll open carry a gun if it does not conceal well, otherwise it is tactically superior to conceal the gun, as long as it is holstered in a fashion that it can be quickly dispatched if needed. I'll gladly open carry my shotgun, N/L-Frame S&Ws, and rifles, but the 1911, K and J-Frame S&Ws stay covered by my shirt. If I won't be arrested for doing so, and I feel inclined to, I'll gladly open carry -- unless I'll be in a very crowded area. It's a pain to have to constantly make sure no one is looking to grab your piece off of your waist and run down the alley somewhere while you're busy. No one would know what's up if I was carrying my 1911 IWB. I have no reservations about debating anyone who feels I should not have a gun, so the whole "offending people" thing doesn't bother me -- as I would not be inclined to open carry a rifle, shotgun, or large revolver in situations where it would be inappropriate. (in liberal homes, etc.)
Heraclitus
Member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2004
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- 284
1) You never want to give a thug the opportunity to pre-empt your move.
2) You don't want to spook the sheep. You want to fleece them.
3) Swinging your penis at everyone increases the odds that you will get into an unwanted fight with the likes of you. There are more bets on a challenge than there will ever be if you "keep it tucked".
2) You don't want to spook the sheep. You want to fleece them.
3) Swinging your penis at everyone increases the odds that you will get into an unwanted fight with the likes of you. There are more bets on a challenge than there will ever be if you "keep it tucked".
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Wildalaska
member
Im was asked what my understanding of the Second Amendment is...
Here it is again..
If and When the Supreme Court interprets it, it will be held to be that it is an idividual right subject to narrowly drawn regulation that will be strictly scrutinized by the Courts to ensure that the law satisfies an overriding state interest and is a minimal interfernece with the right.
Further prediction: Under this test, the Brady Bill is constituional. The prohibition on felon ownership is constituional. The AWB is unconstiuional. Reasonable Manner and means of carry laws are constitional. NJ laws arent. and so on.
Cry and scream all ya want amatuer scholars, debate it on the internet forever, thats the way it will be. Bet ya a beer.
WildgonnagetdrunkAlaska
Here it is again..
If and When the Supreme Court interprets it, it will be held to be that it is an idividual right subject to narrowly drawn regulation that will be strictly scrutinized by the Courts to ensure that the law satisfies an overriding state interest and is a minimal interfernece with the right.
Further prediction: Under this test, the Brady Bill is constituional. The prohibition on felon ownership is constituional. The AWB is unconstiuional. Reasonable Manner and means of carry laws are constitional. NJ laws arent. and so on.
Cry and scream all ya want amatuer scholars, debate it on the internet forever, thats the way it will be. Bet ya a beer.
WildgonnagetdrunkAlaska
To quote an acquaintance, "Constitutional law is what 12 Justices say it is." It is very important to remember that. Until it is struck down, the fact of the matter is that (at this time) it is legal and enforcable. (We, as citizens, do have some input as to the outcome of the situation by way of public opinion, but the end result is that the act of determining the validity of Federal law is made by 12 people we had no direct say in selecting, who are not directly accountable to anyone, and are appointed for life.)
It is because it is. If, in the future, it isn't, then it won't be. "Should be" is not part of the equation unless you're one of the Chosen 12. Maybe it should be, but it isn't.
Unconstitutional? I don't understand people being up in arms about flash hiders and bayonet lugs but being completely ambivalent about having to fill out a 4473 every time they want a new boomstick or having to fill out the paperwork and wait for weeks (or months) so they can get their "I don't have to be a victim" card (CCW). I see something unconstituional here, but it ain't got nothing to do with no doo-dads hanging on AR-15s.
*feels this thread being moved to L&P veeeeery soon.*
*avoids L&P like the plague.*
*has never, ever posted to a thread in L&P. ever.*
So, to keep it on topic, I think open carry is bad because I don't want the back of my skull caved in with a rock on account of some goblin who wants my shiny sixgun. (Are sixguns even stylish anymore? I mean, would they pass me up and wait for a guy or a gal with a Glock?)
Apparently, I'm the other pinko liberal here. Didn't know there were two, WA. If'n you're ever down in Alabama, I'll buy you a beer.
It is because it is. If, in the future, it isn't, then it won't be. "Should be" is not part of the equation unless you're one of the Chosen 12. Maybe it should be, but it isn't.
Unconstitutional? I don't understand people being up in arms about flash hiders and bayonet lugs but being completely ambivalent about having to fill out a 4473 every time they want a new boomstick or having to fill out the paperwork and wait for weeks (or months) so they can get their "I don't have to be a victim" card (CCW). I see something unconstituional here, but it ain't got nothing to do with no doo-dads hanging on AR-15s.
*feels this thread being moved to L&P veeeeery soon.*
*avoids L&P like the plague.*
*has never, ever posted to a thread in L&P. ever.*
So, to keep it on topic, I think open carry is bad because I don't want the back of my skull caved in with a rock on account of some goblin who wants my shiny sixgun. (Are sixguns even stylish anymore? I mean, would they pass me up and wait for a guy or a gal with a Glock?)
Apparently, I'm the other pinko liberal here. Didn't know there were two, WA. If'n you're ever down in Alabama, I'll buy you a beer.
Tom Servo
Member
...or they would try, in which case, I'd take it as a threat on my life (and the state of Georgia agrees), and I'd act accordingly.
So what do we have here? I've potentially taken a human life, and I'm subject to a lawsuit from the perp or his family, all of which I could simply avoid by untucking my shirt. I'm not TOO worried about printing or whether someone around me might have a keen eye, what I'm worried about is the temptation that the wrong folks might have to try to take my sidearm.
From what I can determine, the primary motivation for open carry is to draw attention to the fact that the wearer has a gun. For LEOs and people who carry a firearm as a course of their work this is a non-issue, but why would anyone else want to? I cannot see a good reason for it and have to think that many who complain about the hassles and looks they get are halfway trying to get a rise out of people anyway. I dont know of many carpenters who go out of their way to display their hammers, nor do doctors wander around the mall with their stethescopes on. "Getting society used to guns" is a pretty bizarre form of public service.
Just curious, how many CCW'ers would wear a bright orange jacket that said "I'm wearing a gun"?
I also wonder why this seems always about wearing a holstered handgun. Why not a slung rifle? If you are going to open carry at least have an effective gun. Seriously, if you feel the absolute need to carry, and are willing to do so visibly, you really cannot justify not doing it. So what kind of response will walking into the grcery store with an AR or AK slung up reasonably be expected to get?
Just curious, how many CCW'ers would wear a bright orange jacket that said "I'm wearing a gun"?
I also wonder why this seems always about wearing a holstered handgun. Why not a slung rifle? If you are going to open carry at least have an effective gun. Seriously, if you feel the absolute need to carry, and are willing to do so visibly, you really cannot justify not doing it. So what kind of response will walking into the grcery store with an AR or AK slung up reasonably be expected to get?
Politics.
The gun-grabbers greatest weapon is their ability to portray gun ownership as something unusual and perverse.
In a world in which ordinary people carry openly on a regular basis, it's impossible for the hoplophobes to convince the ignorant masses that carrying a gun is unusual.
And it's impossible for them to maintain their fantastical belief that they live in a world in which guns don't exist.
fjolnirsson
Member
How about the desire to remain armed while not being forced to wear a piece of metal wedged into my already sweaty waistband as I go about my business?
How about not being forced to wear a cover garment in 100+ weather? How about not worrying that my cover garment will fail, causing a man with a gun call?
How about a citizen moving into a state who wants to carry while awaiting his government permit to carry concealed?
In an open carry state, there should be no problem.
That said, I am predisposed to not carry openly, because I am paranoid enough as it is. However, when I move from the PRK, I will be in a situation of continuing to be unarmed, or open carrying while I wait for my permit. The state I have chosen allows open carry.
Is it better to be unarmed until I recieve my permit? Or shall I do what I can to ensure the safety of my infant child?
It's not right to paint open carriers with such a broad brush of childisness and lookatme-ism.
People often have reasons for what they do. Good reasons.
Hey, I think it was you that asked the question, if your mind is made up you dont need my opinion. But dont play the drama card. If a person has an articulable reason for violating a CCW law they may very well have an affirmative defense. If I can articulate a clear and present danger to my infant kid, heck yes, sling up that rifle. But none of your points address any specific need for being armed in a public fashion.
I have carried concealed, 24/7/365 for over 20 years, so I know it is a pain. But it comes with being armed. Open carry was not against the law in my state and may still be OK. But I would no sooner wander around with my pistol exposed than I would my colostomy bag: people dont need to see that s--t. If your comfort is the over-riding issue here, well, you can be hot, or people can look at you funny. Its your choice.
I have carried concealed, 24/7/365 for over 20 years, so I know it is a pain. But it comes with being armed. Open carry was not against the law in my state and may still be OK. But I would no sooner wander around with my pistol exposed than I would my colostomy bag: people dont need to see that s--t. If your comfort is the over-riding issue here, well, you can be hot, or people can look at you funny. Its your choice.
Wildalaska
member
Couldnt have said it better myself Sendec...
WildtoohottossoneinyourpocketAlaska
WildtoohottossoneinyourpocketAlaska
ExtremeDooty
Member
I always open carried around my property and my neighbors new it and we'd get into discussions about it. Once we got past the paranoid question, I told them it's legal to open carry on my property and in walmart. but I need the concealed license to drive the gun to the store. They seemed to think that was silly.
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fjolnirsson
Member
and:
Maybe I wasn't clear when I posted this:
So, should I be unarmed, or commit a crime rather than open carry?
C'mon, guys, I'm really not trying to be a jerk, I just don't understand the vehemence of your arguement against open carry.
Personally, I don't see the need for open carry in most cases. But I don't deny the need for it in some circumstances.
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fjolnirsson
Member
btt waiting for a well reasoned response to my previous post.
Just like religion and politics you will find differing opinions with both sides standing their own ground. Carry as you please as you have to have peace of mind with your choice.
Open carry may point you out as the first target, but it could also cause the aggressor to fear you and give you a wide berth. Concealed carry may cause doubt for the aggressor, or it could put you in the catergory as a likely victim. Depending on the type and angle of the attack will determine if your weapon will do you any good or not with either style of carry. There are positive and negative variables to both methods. You make your choice.
Open carry may point you out as the first target, but it could also cause the aggressor to fear you and give you a wide berth. Concealed carry may cause doubt for the aggressor, or it could put you in the catergory as a likely victim. Depending on the type and angle of the attack will determine if your weapon will do you any good or not with either style of carry. There are positive and negative variables to both methods. You make your choice.
fjolnirsson
Member
Majic,
That was the point I was trying to make with this survey, and the other one I started which went with it.
There are good and bad points to both modes of carry.
That was the point I was trying to make with this survey, and the other one I started which went with it.
There are good and bad points to both modes of carry.
Rickstir
Member
With Missouri's new CCW law, and the historical ability to open carry through out the state with just a few exceptions, the choice is mine. I live in a rural gun-friendly county. I have open-carried for years. It was a hassle in the car to unholster and put the piece on the dash or seat so that an LEO standing at my window could easily see it. That is the law.
So now with my CCW permit, even if I am carrying open, I don't have to unholster. I carry open around the farm and if I am running errands in town. People who know me never ask about it. We do have some tourist trade with a local large recreational lake. Just last weekend I stopped at a camp ground to buy ice. There was a car of "visitors" from St. Louis parked next to the ice machine. The owner knows me and I always get the ice myself and put the money in a box he keeps on top of the machine. I was wearing my Beretta 92FS OWB, nice holster with a wicked looking FBI cant. As I turned to go back to my truck, everyone in the car was looking out the window at me like they were in a drive through zoo. Poor sheeple, probably the first time they ever saw a firearm in person.
Only been asked about why I am carrying a gun twice by little old ladies. Now that I have my CCW permit, I have had some of my friends ask me (when they could not see my gun) if I was packing. I never answer that question.
So now with my CCW permit, even if I am carrying open, I don't have to unholster. I carry open around the farm and if I am running errands in town. People who know me never ask about it. We do have some tourist trade with a local large recreational lake. Just last weekend I stopped at a camp ground to buy ice. There was a car of "visitors" from St. Louis parked next to the ice machine. The owner knows me and I always get the ice myself and put the money in a box he keeps on top of the machine. I was wearing my Beretta 92FS OWB, nice holster with a wicked looking FBI cant. As I turned to go back to my truck, everyone in the car was looking out the window at me like they were in a drive through zoo.
Poor sheeple, probably the first time they ever saw a firearm in person.Only been asked about why I am carrying a gun twice by little old ladies. Now that I have my CCW permit, I have had some of my friends ask me (when they could not see my gun) if I was packing. I never answer that question.
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