Wife has trouble racking slide

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80sDweeb

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We're getting CCW licenses (NY) and while looking at some different semi-auto handguns, my wife was having a lot of trouble racking the slides of all the guns we held and looked at. These included a Walther PPK/S, a Walther P99, a Ruger LCP, and a Bersa Thunder 380CC. It hadn't even crossed my mind before that day that getting a semi-auto could be a problem for her, and I've seen lots of women on Youtube using semi-auto pistols without problem. She's not a weak person, and can handle her share of hard work and heavy lifting, but it seems she had trouble "focusing" that strength to her hands and fingers to overcome the initial resistance of the slides.

Is this unusual? I'd like to think that becoming more familiar with guns and getting used to how tightly a gun must be gripped by the slide as the frame is thrust forward and away from her will allow her to use a semi-auto, but I'm not really sure.

I'm now considering a revolver as a viable option for her. However, most easily concealed small frames I've seen online (not much personal experience with modern revolvers) carry only 5 shots, which seems a tad short of the 6+1 or 7+1 I'm used to seeing in the very small semi-autos (I was thinking a 380 would be a good caliber for her.)

She has fired a Walther PPK/S in .380, a Walther P99 (9mm), and a Ruger LCP (.380), and I think she liked the Ruger best, thought it felt best in her hand, though she preferred the feel of the metal PPK/S before firing them. I'm wondering what a snubbie .38 Special revolver will feel like for her to fire, will it kick a lot compared to the guns she's used?

Also, some of the guns we were looking at were fairly inexpensive (Bursa in particular, as I tried to steer her toward that for $$ reasons.) I notice that there aren't as many inexpensive options with revolvers. I've had trouble finding any local places with good selections of used guns, though that's what I'd prefer to get if I had my choice. What "inexpensive" (but not cheap) revolvers, new and used, would be good choices for my wife and her not-as-strong-as-I-thought hands?

Looking for any advice, opinions, personal experiences, and any general encouragement I can get.

Personally, I'm inclined to get one of the surplus Sig P6s (P225) for myself, though it isn't as concealable as some other choices. I think I'll enjoy shooting it more than a DAO, which many of the small 9mm guns are, and if I enjoy it more, I'll shoot it more, which is a good thing for a "new guy", right? Plus I think it has the "cool factor" I'm looking for.

Money is a big factor for us, especially if, after the cost of getting the licenses, we also hope to have money left over for ammo to go along with our CCWs.

Anyway, thanks in advance for your help, I REALLY enjoy reading this forum (TOO much, if the time I spend here is any indication...)

Scott in Penfield NY
 
Many women have trouble racking the slide on semi's for two reasons I've seen. One is that they want to reverse the overhand grip rather than just grab it naturally. In other words if they are right handed, they want to grab the slide with the left thumb on the right side pointing forward rather than on the left pointing to the rear.

The second and more important cause of the problem is that they try to pull back on the slide while holding the frame. They need to try the opposite. Hold the slide and push forward on the frame with the strong arm.
 
I think it might be all in the grip of the frame. I have noticed alot of females try to wrap all of thier fingers around the grip , leading to a limp wrist. Have her try it with her trigger and middle finger out straight along the trigger guard.
 
Technique is a good part of the formula. Instead of hanging onto the gun and pulling the slide back , try hanging onto the slide and pushing the guns frame forward.

Tip up barrel auto's are available, but only in the smaller calibers , I think only up to .32 Auto but perhaps a .380 tip up is made - I would have to check , or you can on the Beretta site.

Other techniques can be used like pushing the slide against an object - see if there are any other suggestions on the web site cornerdcat .

Otherwise there is certainly nothing the matter with a wheel gun, and I carry one in a pants pocket holster. Small frame revolvers can be had in calibers as powerful as the .357 Mag. but are generaly more popular in .38 Spl chamberings. They are easy to use, very concealable, and reliable .
 
Welcome dweeb!
I'm wondering what a snubbie .38 Special revolver will feel like for her to fire, will it kick a lot compared to the guns she's used?
Click to expand...

You are asking some good questions, but aren't you asking the wrong folks? Seems like you should be asking your wife. Try to rent or borrow some revolvers and let her shoot them.

Now matter how much we may chime suggestions, your wife is the only person who can tell you how it feels in her hand.

Also have her look here, it is a site by a woman, for women about guns.
http://www.corneredcat.com/
 
Confidence in your ability to use the weapon is everything, I'd look at a revolver.
 
I do not know if you have checked it out yet. There is a shop called "pro gun services" on RT 96 in victor. It is not too far off of the last exit on 490. It is in the plaza with leonardos pizza (a little past the wendys). I believe they may have some used guns. They are also a lot cheaper than the big box stores, and you can save a little on sales tax.
 
Try to rent or borrow some revolvers and let her shoot them.
Click to expand...

Sorry, this is NY, no renting that I've ever heard of. I don't know anyone with a revolver (that I know of, not a lot of CCW people speak up about it around these parts.) There is a good chance that my wife's brother has one, he's former LE (retired.) Very busy guy, though, but that's certainly a possibility. I'll probably wait till we have the licenses in hand before I impose on him.

And thanks for the responses so far, everyone. I do believe it is within her abilities to learn to use the semi-autos. I'd just like to know what to look at in affordable wheel guns if it turns out she can't.

Kman, I agree that if she can't master a semi-auto, she shouldn't use it.

I guess I'll look for "affordable revolver" threads. I think Charter Arms and Taurus make some, but I don't know what to think about those brands after some of the things I've read here at THR. I always thought all revolvers were reliable, but I guess it's possible to get them wrong.

Are used revolvers selling for good prices these days (relative to new) because the "trend" is leaning toward semi-autos? I didn't see many used ones for sale, but I haven't been to many shops, yet, either. With no CCW license, I wasn't even allowed to handle the handguns in one of the two shops I visited. That may happen in other stores as well.
 
When she started shooting my wife had the same problem, as she became more familiar W/ the weapons her handling improved. She can now chamber a round on every gun we own (.380 Llama micro max to RIA 1911).

When we started out we decided to overcome the issue by me racking the slide for her and her carrying the weapon condition 1. She now carries a CZ-82 condition 2 and can field strip it.
 
I do not know if you have checked it out yet. There is a shop called "pro gun services" on RT 96 in victor.
Click to expand...

Pro Gun is the place we went that they did let us handle the guns (vs. American Sportsman in East Rochester, who has a store policy to require a license or a license application receipt first.) Bob Lonsberry recommended the place to my wife.

I've got some recommendations for some other local places to try (Rochester, NY area):
Gander Mountain
Apple Town Gun Shop in Williamson
Custom Shop in Walworth
Gun Trader in Brockport
Beikirch Ammunition Corp in East Rochester

And even Buffalo Gun Center (about an hour away.)

Where are all the big pawn shops when you need them? Oh, yeah, this is NY, what was I thinking... :(
 
Hi,

My wife also had trouble with the slides, even on a small Kel-Tec. I let her shoot everything she could.

The verdict? She picked the gun that she shot the best and had the most confidence in.

I'd suggest you do the same, and resist that normal male thing about trying to guide them into what you think they'll like.

Also, go to the corneredcat.com website and read tons of well-written advice about handguns from one very knowledgeable lady . . . to other ladies and their spouses. You'll both learn a lot!

T.

PS: What gun did my wife settle on? My 3" barrel S&W Model 65 revolver in .357. She shot it exceedingly well, for it fit her and it worked well for her, giving her the confidence to know she could use it to engage a well-trained and armed male intruder and win.

With this knowledge, I later found a nice S&W "Lightweight" J-frame revolver, a Model 37. It is smaller and much lighter, yet sports the 3" barrel that she shoots so well. It is very light and easy for her to carry.

On a recent training course for women only by our sheriff department, her handgun instructor told her she was proficient enough to teach the class and shot better than most cops.

Yep . . . let THEM pick their gun . . . and don't worry if it "only" has five rounds of .38 special. It isn't how many rounds one has that counts . . .

To WIN in a mortal situation, one must both shoot well AND have the proactive ability to engage decisively and confidently.



BTW . . . after carrying high cap. 9mms, a full-size Colt Combat Elite .45ACP and other bottom feeders, my "all the time" concealed carry pocket gun is a S&W Model 37 snubbie . . . or a belt holstered Model 36 snubbie revolver.

. . . and I feel quite well-armed with either!


Here's a 1" black square target, shot at 10 yards (standing and unsupported) with my Model 36:

2248828Firsttarget.jpg


There's a very, very good reason why lots of us seasoned hand gunners prefer the J-frames for concealed carry.
 
Go to the revolver forum, learn how to check out a used one on the "sticky" at the beginning. Then look to buy a used, top quality S&W or similar, as they are widely available in a variety of grip types and frame sizes that she could handle at the store or shop. Don't give capacity a second thought...her confidence is handling the gun is infinitely more important.
 
Posted by S&Wfan:
and don't worry if it "only" has five rounds of .38 special. It isn't how many rounds one has that counts . . .
Click to expand...

In a situation involving multiple armed perpetrators, as is common in MANY home invasions and carjackings, the number of rounds you have is a VERY important consideration.

I've owned a few snubs in my lifetime, but I want a high capacity semi-auto if I'm facing multiple armed perpetrators.

And revolvers aren't the "magic" answer for all people with weak grips. Many people with weak grips also have weak individual fingers.

I've personally instructed a number of female beginners on how to shoot, and MANY of them have had significant problems with the long, heavy 12-13 pound trigger pulls that come standard on a lot of the revolvers on the market.

Whereas many of them found the considerably lighter 5-6 pound, short trigger pull of single-action semi-autos, MUCH more to their liking.

I've had a lot of women, and even some older men with arthritis etc., who had a very hard time trying to pull the trigger on a double-action revolver.

I've also found that many of the women who have a problem racking the slide, do so because of POOR TECHNIQUE, rather than WEAKNESS.

If they're taught the proper technique and practice it regularly during their initial learning phase, semi-autos aren't a problem for them.
 
Try this - assuming she is right handed -
From the normal shooting stance, turn 90 degrees to the right, with the gun still pointed down range, positioned right in front of the stomach, so the side of the gun is parallel with the body instead of pointing straight out.

Grasp the slide just behind the front sight with the left hand, thumbs of both hands will be on the inner side of the gun, just in front of the stomach. Sharply push both hands together, when the slide is all the way to the rear, release the grip on the slide with the left hand.
 
Years ago, the Kitsap County Rod & Gun Club (Kitsap County WA), taught a ladies handgun class that stressed a stiff-arm shoulder roll as the way to cycle a semi when the shooter doesn't have a lot of upper body strength to spare. I think this is the same idea Kruzr mentions. Keep elbows locked, grasp the slide in the left hand (left thumb on the right side of the slide, pointing forward), and push the frame away with the right hand by rolling her shoulders. She shouldn't need to use her lower arm muscles at all.

I learned this tip as a volunteer line coach for the ladies' shoots, and saved it for info when my daughter started shooting. Also came in handy for me when my left wrist and arm were mashed up a bit after a vehicle accident.

Oh. Daughter can shoot autos, but prefers revolvers. Her favorite is the S&W 432PD. She also lkes the Ruger GP101 with Crimson Trace grips.
 
Thumbing the hammer first helps take some of the umph out of racking smaller guns like a PPK.
 
80sDweeb I wish you would have posted this last weekend. I was in rochester for the gunshow at the Dome, I would have brought a few smaller revolvers for her to check out!

My wife has her Pistol Permit and settled on a revolver as her choice. She liked the idea of "idiot proof" if push came to shove! Finding the right revoler took a little bit of time and money though! The progression of revolvers for the her was as follows:
1st) S&W 638- She LOVED it in the gun store...but HATED it at the range with ANYTHING other than wadcutters.
2nd) S&W 36 she liked the added weight and hogue monogrip...but still not right!
3rd) 2.75" Ruger Security Six...SHE LOVES IT! With a mid range .357 (speer short barrel) she can put all 6 rounds into a COM out to 15 yards. She will even (occasionally) shoot my Doubletap 125gr loads (1550fps/667lbs!).

As far a $$$ go the upside of living in NY is that there are LOTS of great deals to be had on revolvers! I picked up my Ruger Six for $275 in 95%+ shape:) My S&W M36 is a 1964 pinned barrel model that was only $225. I was at a gun show at the erie count fair yesterday and saw an airweight model 37 for $265...my buddy bought it!!!
 
my wife is the same way. i rack the slide for her. give it to her. when the magazine is empty, the slide stays open. all she has to do is slide in a new one and press the lever to close the slide. if it ever jams, she will be in a world of hurt. hopefully she will get an adreniline rush and be able to do it. but honestly, i keep the gun clean, and so far, knock on wood, it has never jammed, EXCEPT twice when it was new and being broken in. since them, it has been perfect. the only other option in a wheel gun. absoloutly nothing wrong with them! for years, the cops hung onto them because they were so reliable. i never (with over 2000 rounds) had an issue with my s&w 686. had some ammo not fire/hangfire, but the gun always cycled.
 
Why not wait and she can buy what she wants later. She could practice on your gun until she is comfortable. Also there is nothing wrong with a revover. Thats what I carry. Look at the S&W model 60. its made of stainless steel and has a little heft to it. Recoil would not be much of a problem also.
 
80sDweeb said:
... my wife was having a lot of trouble racking the slides of all the guns we held and looked at. These included a Walther PPK/S, a Walther P99, a Ruger LCP, and a Bersa Thunder 380CC.
Click to expand...
Except for the P99, these are small pistols with very little slide to grasp, especially the Ruger. The Bersa and PPK are also blowback operated - hence a stiff recoil spring - and have a safety lever in the way.

Has she tried a Glock? These have a tall square slide (as opposed to the P99's tapered one) with substantial grasping grooves, have a light recoil spring and, being striker fired, don't have the additional tension of a hammer spring. Also, slide manipulation is at least as much about technique as sheer strength. Somewhere on the Cornered Cat site is a chapter dealing with this.
 
If your wife has trouble racking the slide, some suggestions:

1. Avoid blow-back .380s (like PPK) that have heavier recoil springs; locked breach (Ruger LCP and Kel-Tec 3AT) should be easier.

2. Revolver is a great solution. Sometimes those with "slide-rack" problems will also have "heavy trigger" problems, so get an exposed hammer model if she's more comfortable cocking the hammer before shooting.

3. Specific auto recommendations are tough, because so many slide-friendly versions have been discontinued. But consider:

--HK P9S: pretty much a collector's item these days, with prices to match. But the "roller-lock" action allowed the used of a VERY mild recoil spring (13-lb). Glocks and XDs typicaly use 17-20 lb springs. Easy to rack.

--Beretta 86 Cheetah .380: No longer listed by manufacturer. Stiffer spring (14-lb), BUT the barrel hinges so the slide does NOT have to be racked to load or unload the barrel chamber. (Stiff spring will be a liability if you have to clear a stoppage). 3032 Tomcat is still manufactured, also has tilting barrel, but has aluminum frame subject to cracking, and it's "just" a .32.

--1911 9 mm or .38 Super: big gun, smaller cartridge, 14-lb. spring instead of 16 for the .45 (factory standard).

--HK P7: My wife's gun. Uses a gas-retarded blowback system, so spring feels lighter than you'd think at first, then stacks to 22 lb (it IS tough to lock the slide). Discontinued, pricey. Wilson Combat's currently-manufactured ADP uses the same gas-piston system as the P7, and so should have a similar slide feel, but I've never handled one.

Similar pistols have been marketed in the past by Truvelo and Heritage Arms. Steyr GB used a similar gas-retard priciple, but the gas flowed around the barrel; these were UGLY and are hard to recommend, even though they occcasionally litter used gun counters.

Recoil-spring weight doesn't tell the whole racking-difficulty story, so she should try out some slides for herself, if that's posssible. For instance, a Beretta 92 has a 13 lb recoil spring (same as the P9S) and yet seems to me to be more awkward to manipulate.

Good luck.
 
Another vote for proper technique. I've seen some big guys have trouble doing simple manipulations when they are first timers, because they aren't using proper technique.

Also, with females sometimes the problem is they start off gently and add pressure gradually, so it appears they just don't have the muscle to do it. If they gave it a violent push with both hands opposing, they could do it. If friction is the problem, try a little grip tape on the back of the slide or more aggressive checkering.

Again, it normally comes down to technique. Manipulate the gun close to you, where you're stronger, and get as much hand on the slide as possible.
 
My wife is a big woman and she has problems with racking semi-autos. Her carry piece? S&W Mod 10-5 2" barrel...No slide.

If she is set on an semi-auto get her one of those hand exersize balls or grip exersize thingies...
 
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