Wolf ammo,the reason for the bad reputation

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JA

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First off Wolf ammo is new mfg. ammo at a price competative with surplus ammo. It is cost effective(cheap) ammo for practice not match shooting.
The laquer coating of the cases does not melt or become soft in the hot barrel of a firearm causing the cases to stick in the chamber. It is the primer and bullet sealer that does this not the laquer coating. Excessive amounts of sealer were applied to the primer and it was allowed to run down onto the rear of the case. The same with the bullet sealer a excessive amount was applied and it ran down onto the neck and shoulder of the case. The excessive amount of sealers does not pose a problem in most rifles. But off brand AR-15 rifles or AR-15 kit guns that don't have a chamber that is cut to military specifications and chrome lined had problems with the Wolf ammo. The large amount of surface area on the case covered with sealer became sticky from the heat of the barrel and offered more resistance to the case being pulled from the chamber than the exstraction force of the design of the AR-15 rifle has. If you compare the amount of bullet sealer on the necks of other brands of ammo you will see that the Wolf sealer is covering 50 times the amount of surface area of the case. The same with the primer sealer it is only on the rear of the case around the primer on other brands and the Wolf sealer is covering 1/4 of rear of the case. The surface area covered by the bullet and primer sealer on the Wolf ammo is 100's of times as much as the bullet sealer covers on other brands of ammo.
In the pic you can see the arrows are pointing to the sealer that has run down onto the neck and body of the cartridge. Both cartridges are Wolf and the one on the left is the 55gr bullet load and the one on the right is the 62gr bullet load.
966223_Russian_ammo_sealer-med.jpg


Wolf started receiving complaints about cases sticking in chambers and getting bad reviews on the internet. The people that were having problems didn't take the time to find out why the cases were sticking. They just looked at the Wolf ammo and saw it had a laquer coated steel case instead of a brass case. Then blamed the laquer coating because it was different from the brass cased surplus ammo they had no sticking problems with.
The Russian company that mfgs. the ammo
http://tcwammo.tula.ru/win/english/main.html
They stopped using primer and bullet sealer on the 223 ammo but the damage was done by the internet rumors that the laquer on the cases was the problem. As anyone in marketing/sales will tell you Wolf made the only move they could and that is to change the look of the ammo. If the ammo looks the same people are not going to buy it even though the problem was corrected. So they changed the laquer to polymer and also changed the color so people could see at a glance it was different new/improved ammo.
 
The polymer coating is the exact reason that I no longer buy very much Wolf ammo. I tried some of it and found rust on the cases already.
I had some respect for the Wolf stuff before. It was cheap and dirty but you could have done just about anything to it and trusted it to work.
Now I only buy 40 or so rounds when I just need a little plinking stuff. I have started using Ulyanovsk instead.
 
I have encountered pistols where the Wolf ammo had lacquered itself into the chamber so tightly it required VIGOROUS application of a range rod to remove it.

AFAIK the pistol ammo isn't sealed, so it HAD to be the laquer...


Larry
 
Is Wolf ammo bad?

I think it has more to do with the fact that western weapons were desigined for brass cases, not steel. I have never had problems with Wolf, as long as the weapon I was shooting it in was designed for shooting steel cases (AK, SKS, M.N.). The couple of times I tried it in my AR, and 1911, I had problems.
 
I shoot wolf in my russian guns and have no problems with it.

Brass cased handloads in AR-15's or brass cased surplus/ commercial no problems.

Some of the bad MOJO with the wolf has to do with the fact that folks try to see how fast they can empty a 30 round magazine in the general direction of the target. The chamber and barrel begin to glow red and then the lacquer, and bullet sealant does melt, heck the rounds could cook off as well.

I dont abuse my guns this way, since I prefer to shoot accurately and actually hit what I am shooting at, so wolf has not caused me any problems it works fine in east block guns.
 
I've attempted to heat empty Wolf cases in an oven to see if I could get the lacquer to melt. I was unable to show any melting even though the oven ran at +500F for over an hour.

In every case I've been able to examine firsthand involving a stuck Wolf case in an AR, there was always a pinkish-red goo that appeared to be neck sealant present in the chamber.

These two things lead me to believe the problem isn't the lacquered steel cases. Has anybody tried conducting an experiment to see if they can create a condition where the lacquer will melt or adhere to the chamber?
 
It is my understanding that the Wolf .45 ACP cases may sometimes be out of spec, causing FTE. I don't know whether the cases are too short, or if the extractor rim is too thick, or what. I only use Wolf 7.63 x 39 and have had no problems.
 
Thanks for the write up, but the SIG P230 disagrees, it couldn't make it more than two rounds without getting a failure to feed, a friends USP40 disagrees, a case split in the 3rd fired round jammed it up good, my SIG P225 didn't like the 9mm, failures to feed, and my 1911 didn't feed or extract the .45 ACP rounds very well either. So...

My SAR-2 has no problem, neither does my Makarov in 9x18, nor the Mosin Nagant. So those are the only guns that get it. I tried 40 rounds through my "AR-15 kit guns that don't have a chamber that is cut to military specifications" and didn't have a problem, but it isn't worth shooting since I will start reloading it soon.

The ammo works fine for the price when it does actually work. But for some of it, the past history speaks volumes.
 
I tried 2 boxes of Wolf 45ACP on my Kimber Stainless II. It works just fine, but a little dirtier than CCI. But since the price difference is not that much, I stick with CCI/SPEER. Oh, yeah it does stink a little.

My SKS shoots fine with the 7.62x39.

-Pat
 
I have the sealerless 223 ammo. 55 gr HP bought earlier this year. I can try to post a pic tonight. It's run just fine in my M17S but all the sulfer can really make my eyes water if it's a still day.
 
Duke of Lawnchair said:
JA,

You say that Wolf no longer uses primer/bullet sealer on their polymer coated .223 ammunition, could you post a picture of this?

-Jim

I'm not sure if this will help but I have a picture of the new 7.62x39 ammo. The rings near the shoulder and the rim are from wear.
 

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I've fired beacoup rounds of Wolf in my Bushmaster, Glock 17, and my Kimber. The only guns that has had any difficulty feeding or extracting the Wolf are my Springfield .45's. Switching to Wilson Combat "Bulletproof" extractors seemed to take care of the extraction problems. But my other guns seem to love the stuff.

I'd heard rumors about the laquer melting in hot barrels, so I just made sure not to leave a round in the chamber when it would be hot.

Jubei
 
"Wolf ammo,the reason for the bad reputation"
The Internet

"Has anybody tried conducting an experiment to see if they can create a condition where the lacquer will melt or adhere to the chamber?"
Sort of, although there was no chamber involved. I used a cutting torch to heat a fired Wolf case until it was cherry red and was unable to get any laquer off the case, even when scraping it with a screwdriver.
 
My Savage collects tons of that red stuff at the back've the bolt thats a chore to clean. The front of my magazine also snags tons of that red stuff.


Savage 11FXP3 short stroke .223.
 
I'm inclined to believe it is the sealant, too. Several years ago, I purchased a case of S&B steel-cased 5.56. Shot all 1000 rounds of it through a Bushmaster 16" carbine with nary a bobble or problem. The cases were lacquer coated, same as Wolf, but there wasn't any of that red sealant stuff.
 
I don't have any pics of the new ammo but if you check Wolf ammo website you can see this is the laquer case without any bullet/primer sealer.
http://www.wolfammo.com/bs_riffle_223rem62.htm
If you look here there is a pic of the new polymer case ammo. Notice how the other rifle ammo doesn't have the red bullet sealer like the 7.62x39mm.
http://www.wolfammo.com/poly.htm
I saw a pic of the polymer 7.62x39mm ammo when it first came out posted by a member on the AK-47.net forums. It had bullet sealer that was put on correctly and none had ran down onto the neck.
The pic Feanaro posted looks like Wolf has stopped putting sealer on the 7.62x39mm ammo now.
 
223 wolf works great in my russian saiga.

my main question when I see problems with AR15 owners using wolf is. what kind of chamber do they have. match 223,wylde loose 223/5.56nato, or a chrome lined 5.56 nato chamber or chrome moly.

just dont see the info posted and when it comes to problems. we need details and solutions not myths and vagueness.
 
"we need details and solutions not myths and vagueness."

Wow. A breath of fresh air.
Let's examine this from a different point of view.
In countless threads on this board we read people saying that they would never use an unreliable gun. We have seen posts where people post that they wouldn't carry a gun that didn't have 500 flawless rounds fired though it. Furthermore we read threads about this or that battle rifle that must withstand a underwater infiltration, followed by crawling through the sand on the beach, low crawling through a glue factory with ruptured containers with all the action taking place in a chicken plucking facility (even though the guy posting will never fire the rifle anywhere but a range). Yet when it comes to these Wolf ammo threads, people have no hesitation in posting that their weapon won't just run on any ammo it comes across. It has to have "special" ammo for it to function. You see, it isn't the gun's fault,: no, their faviorite blaster is perfect and infalable: it is the ammo's fault. And they are not interested in why this is the case. It is easier to just blame it on the ammo.

I will more than likely never see any combat. My guns will never fire a shot in anger I have little doubt. But, every gun I own will feed, fire, extract, and eject as much Wolf ammo as you might want to feed them. And, unlike many people who give advice on these threads, I have actually done it: many times. One of my ARs has over six thousand rounds of Wolf through it. I have fired over 10,000 rounds of Wolf through various firearms that I own and never had a single ammo related malfunction. I am satisfied with my firearms selections.
 
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