Would you let 2A be a factor in a major life decision?

[Robert Hairless]

You might find it easier to make your decision if you change the terms of your question and look at the world from a broader perspective. Forget about the Second Amendment and firearms for a moment. Think in terms of the personal controls you would find acceptable for the rest of your life.

From that perspective, how comfortable would you be spending the rest of your life in a community that constrains its citizens by imposing greater controls on their lives as opposed to one that imposes fewer controls on them?

The reason why I've recast the dialogue in that way is because a state is after all a community and its view of Second Amendment issues is after all a reflection of its attitudes towards the people in that community. On a lesser scale would you feel more comfortable living in your own home in which you set the rules or in a condominium in which a board sets the rules that everyone must follow? Some people prefer the orderliness of a condominium and barely notice that its price is conformity. Other people find that conformity intolerable.

Do you want to make as many of your own decisions as possible, do you trust yourself to come to reasonable decisions, can you accept the risks of your decision making that proves wrong, are you willing to pay the price of your own wrong decisions, and are you willing to extend those same rights to others? If so, you're unlikely to feel comfortable living the rest of your life in a state that severely restricts your behavior for the sake of imposing conformity on its people.

Second Amendment issues, to my mind at least, are an indication of attitudes towards a great many other issues. Second Amendment issues don't live in a vacuum. You might well find that your interest in firearms wanes after a few years, and even that it waxes again a few years later, but how will you feel when your new interests are similarly restricted?

 

[geekWithA.45]

When it really sunk in that the State of New Jersey institutionally held me in deep contempt, it offended me.

When I found that offense to be relentless and without remedy, I found a certain corrosive effect on my spirit.

That was when I packed up my family, pets, posessions, and business, and moved them to a free state.


Humans cannot sustain infinite corrosion and psychic pain. At that point, you have 3 basic choices:

* Allow the corrosion to melt you.
* Adjust your attitude: Give yourself a figurative lobotomy, so that the insult is perfectly OK with you.
* GET OUT.

Yes, it was about guns, but guns are the litmus test.

There is *nothing* good to be found behind enemy lines that cannot be found in Free America.

 

[Citroen]

I Did and I Do!

Although not always the easy way out, I do make every effort to put my money and my actions where my heart is. It is not the 2nd Amendment per se, but an attitude - much like the motto of New Hampshire - "Live Free or Die". I realize, however, that as a nation we have gone a long way away from the lofty principles on which our nation was founded but, truth be told, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

The Internet makes is easier than ever to obtain information so with very little effort, all from the air conditioned comfort of our home offices, we can determine which companies, which charities and which politicians believe in individual freedom.

After that the choice is ours - Live Free or Die.

John
Charlotte, NC

 

[aguyindallas]

Let nothing stand in the way of your freedom and the ability to express your true self and you will live a happy, fruitful life.

 

[bogie]

For a short-term thing like a GOOD college (i.e, more money for toys later), I'd suck it up for a little while, and go underground. Wear Che t-shirts, and stick with just a little kel-tec...

 

[Deathrider1579]

A long time ago (ok 6 years) I got my first gun (I turned 18 6 years ago give me a break but I had one before that it just wasn't MINE) at that instant I knew for sure that I would never be able to give it up. I decided that I was free and no one could tell me differently so I am never going to live in a state, town or country that says I'm not free so I can't have / carry a gun.

I don't really plan on living out side of Texas but if I do I will make sure that where ever I go is at least tolerant of my lifestyle.
Even if it means I take a job with less pay and worse benefits.

-DR

 

[esq_stu]

I would not apply to grad school in a place where 2A rights are severely infringed, like IL or NJ.

I've turned down job opportunities in NJ and NY because I couldn't bring my guns. I moved away from Chicago after they banned handguns.

I would avoid schools in places where I could not own and possess firearms, at least off campus. At a minimum, I'd want to be able to protect my home. But that would not be good enough if I was going to live in that state after graduating.

 

[stevelyn]

Personal freedom in general was the reason I decided to stay in Alaska after I left the Army. Of course 2A was a major part of that, although at the time the only concealed carry we had was quantified by "engaged in legitimate outdoor activity" which could be argue to be anything. Alaska has always been an open carry state though.

Over the years liberty has won out and evolved for the better up here. I would never consider living anywhere else.

 

[Hoppy590]

i gotta say. while your preferances may change, the 2a will stay as important as it is.

you may not shoot much in 5 years, maybe not at all. and maybe you wont even own a gun. but so long as you dont let a nanny state "convince" you against 2A. its still worth fighting for even if you never pick up a gun again.


also most states, like MA, that are anti gun, are circleing the drain anyway

 

[igor]

My situation is principally different from the US majority on board here - as a citizen and resident of Finland, I am categorically denied any inherent RKBA rights. Yet, I vote a resounding "yes".

Even with the ubiquitous licencing and registration system I am practically very little restricted in what I can own and shoot, actually better off than in several US states and cities. Now, if that were to change in a significant way, I would give serious thought as to where my precious homeland is heading.

The constitutional, principal level RKBA is lost here. It never even really existed; this society is a product of its own specific history. But, despite the obvious welfare state environment we live in, the perceived and experienced level of personal freedom is very high. A considerable shift towards gun bans, an abolition of conscription and an even more passive role within the EU could very likely alienate me from this society to the point of leaving it.

 

[amprecon]

We packed up and left Maryland April 2002 for Billings, MT and took a $2 an hour pay-cut to do it. We did it primarily because of the political anti-2A, high-tax, pro-welfare atmosphere so prevalent in the state, for the perceived higher moral and fiscal conservatism that Montana has been regarded as.
Our venture lasted only 16 months, with the relative similar cost of living as Maryland and cut in pay, we found that we could no longer sustain ourselves and because of lack of industry and competition there was no "ladder" to climb or leverage of competing with the competition for higher pay.
We have learned that regardless of perceptions or geography home is where the money is.

 

[Andrewsky]

I used to live in AZ. I decided back when I was a liberal that I should go to college in Minneapolis. Now that I'm extremely pro-gun and libertarian, I'm not quite as enthusiastic about it, due to MN's somewhat commie gun laws.

Did you know that long guns in vehicles must be cased and unloaded at all times even if you possess a pistol permit?

I would never ever ever settle in a real anti-gun place like DC, NY, NJ, MD, MA, IL, HI, or CT or some foreign country. Part of it is that those states tend to be extremely unsafe relative to pro-gun states like Montana for example.

 

[Nitrogen]

I actually did.

I found myself unemployed in California several years ago. I accepted a job offer in Dallas, partly based on the recognition of the second amendment there. The cheaper cost of living helped a lot, too.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

I pretty much separate life and the people in it into two categories. Those who are against the 2nd and those that aren't.

I usually avoid the first kind.

So yeah, I would definately let the 2A be a deciding factor in my life.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

The most important thing, that transends everything else, is having a spouse/partner that is on board with your core values and beliefs. You are clearly very introspective and that will serve you well. The RKBA will likely be something that will always be important to you (not to presume too much, but the odds weigh heavily in that direction). Even if you (gulp!) decided on UCLA--you'll still be in America. JWarren's post covers this topic in short order and candor.

 

[TallPine]

See

my

location

<---------------


(though I must say it would be nice to live someplace like Uibhist a Deas for a while and learn the language)

 

[h0ss]

I would let the 2A be a major deciding factor in my life, and I do. I live in southern Vermont (born and raised and so was my father and his father, possibly more... so im not some second generation transplant).

Ive told my wife that i would not move just over the border to nearby New York because of their crappy gun laws. Even though the housing is SO much cheaper there and for what we are paying for our apartment now, we could get a much bigger one, or get the same size for less and save money. But i said no way. Even when it was suggested that its only like 5-10 minutes away from the border and since i shoot in Vermont and my father lives here, and i could keep my guns at my fathers house, i said no. Thats too much of a compromise for me. They are MY guns and i want them at MY house.

So i continue to pay high rent for a small apartment, and some day will most likely way over-pay for a house in Vermont, but at least i will have my 2A freedom.

I told my wife the only other state i would consider living in would be New Hampshire. I don't necessarily like the fact that you need a permit there, but at least its a shall-issue. Plus geographically, its very similar to Vermont, and i like their motto. Of course, most of New Hampshire has expensive housing too from what ive seen, but oh well


EDITED TO ADD:

However, if anything were to ever happen in my life to where i needed to move, i would try to make it as painless as possible and make the most out of any gun freedoms that state happened to have. If i needed to move for my family, then i would have to do it. But only for something serious, for my wife or children. There are some examples that i could use that i wont get into, but i would move if i had to. But NOT for something frivolous(sp?) like "lets move someplace warm" or "i think it would be nice to live in the city", statements like those would not get my approval

 

[waterhouse]

Let's just say that a few weeks ago I had the opportunity to make more money if I moved to Chicago. Not happening.

 

[Elza]

I do and I did. I saw the hand writing on the wall over 20 years ago. We moved from PRK (Bay area) to North Texas. I’ve never looked back (or been back!) since.

 

[arthurcw]

Yep... here's my rational.

Let's change the question.

"I'm about to get married. The girl/guy and her entire family are rabid antis. I doubt she or they will ever change. We will be living on property owned by the family. It will probably mean severely limiting my ability to defend my family and/or giving up my guns altogether. I don’t see this changing for the majority of our marriage.

“I don't know much more about the girl other than she's one of the hottest girls in the country, other guys say she's worth it, and she could help me get lots of money later, maybe. Should I carry through with the wedding?"

Doesn’t seem like a win-win scenario. Does it?

If it REALLY MEANS (this is something you should research heavily) you will be stuck there for the major part of you working life, then why do it? Seriously.

If you were going to be a (let’s say) lawyer then there MUST be some good lawyers in a more gun (replace “gun” with whatever you want) friendly state that has a good school that allowed them to study law.

If the scenario you propose is correct, find the place you want to live and go to school there. Don’t compromise too much on the ancillary things, they become much more important with age. They become the snowflakes that cause the avalanche.

 

[mpmarty]

Left LA in '67 moved to San Bernardino to try to escape the stupid anti gun environment. Left California two years later to escape the overwhelming stench of liberal socialism and anti gun fervor by moving to Reno Nevada in '69. By '79 the damn Californians had overrun Reno with their equity emigrant dollars buying up what would be two million dollar homes in California for less than a quarter of that. Damn fools brought their stupid liberal ideas with them and turned Reno into little Los Angeles. Ran for cover and wound up back in Oregon. Our governor in the sixties and seventies had a large sign at the California Oregon border that read "Welcome to Oregon, enjoy your visit, don't try to stay". So far, in the southern part of the state we have managed to alienate and send back most of the Californians with bad attitudes. Those from the far northern part of California bear a striking resemeblence to Oregonians. In short, DAMN STRAIGHT I'd base where I went to school, worked and lived on the 2A as well as associated social values.

 

[xd45gaper]

i would never ever move to California, Illinois or any other place that doesnt allow there law abiding citizens all there rights granted to them by the constitution

 

[scurtis_34471]

The good news is that the list of states to avoid when it comes to gun rights is really not all that long. Most of the country is still quite gun-friendly with laws that strongly support self-defense. As long as you avoid CA, IL, WI, MD, NJ, NY, MA, CT, RI and DC, you should be fine. While those areas have a lot of high-paying jobs, they also tend to have high taxes and high costs of living. When I moved from New England to Florida, my cost of living dropped a lot more than my pay opportunities. I've had several chances to move to places like NY and CA with pay increases of as much as 15-20%, but the math never worked out in favor of the move. Why? I have a very nice little 3/2/2 house with a $1000 mortgage. I pay about $1000/year in property tax and no state income tax. Electricity is cheaper than many of those places. Car registration runs about $100/year for two cars and there is no excise tax, use tax or environmental impact fee. Pay matters, but cost of living matters just as much.

Another issue to consider is lifestyle. Why move to a place that is not compatible with yours? If you like large cities, there are plenty available that have favorable gun laws and there are gun friendly states in every region of the country. If you like New England, ME, NH and VT are all gun-friendly. If you like the west coast, try Washington or Oregon. The mid-west is not bad if you avoid IL and WI. If you like the Mid-Atlantic, try PA or VA. The rest of the country is wide open. I really cannot think of a good reason to knowingly move to a state with restrictive gun laws.

 

[bulgron]

Hi everyone, I think this is my first post on this board so be gentle.

Just felt the need to chime in.

Back in '89 I was a few years out of college and unemployed, so I ended up moving to the California bay area for a job. On the day I made that decision, I knew deep down inside I was making a horrible mistake. But I figured I was young and there was time to move away once I got back on my feet.

At the time, 2A wasn't even a minor consideration for me. This, despite the fact that I'd been raised by a man who did his best to teach me what's important in life. But like many young people, I was stubborn and obtuse.

A few months later we had the Loma Prieta earthquake. Seeing the world crumble around me was what put me on the road to caring an awful lot about 2A issues.

I've been meaning to, and trying to, move away from CA ever since. I won't spell out the gory details on why, but I'm pretty much stuck here. It grates on my spirit, every day, thinking about the place where I'm stuck in and the bad choices I made to get myself stuck here. (Pretty much, at this point I think I'm going to have to leave my wife in order to move, but we have small children and they take priority. I made my bed, now I have to lay in it.)

So, yes, issues such as 2A rights are very much a good reason to decide where you want to be in the world. My advice is go to the school in a state where you want to live. DO NOT think that you can always move later, because like me "later" might be so far out into the future that it's practically meaningless.

Just my two cents.

 

[chieftain]

absolutely.

Which of the other protections of the Bill of Rights would you "ignore" to live some place.

I happen to know about 18 years ago people were dying to get to places that had a bill of rights, let alone a second amendment.

Don't give up any rights to any Government. And if you must make sure it is temporary. Such as serving in the military.

In the end, your rights are much more important that any piece of ground. Besides, you often must use your rights to keep your own ground. Your own ground does not give you rights.

Go figure.

Fred