Would You Stay Or Go?

[Old Dog]

We are now electing representatives to Congress that have less acumen than high school sophomores.

Never more apparent than the results of our last general election.

I left California for Washington (at the time, Washington's gun laws were better than most); now the plan is for my final retirement a move to a state such as Tennessee or Arkansas. We'll bail within the next two to four years, for certain. It's not solely the gun laws, but definitely the taxes, the nanny state, the snowflakes, liberals, hipsters and crappy music. Plus I miss whitetail season, good bass fishing and country music.

 

[Deanimator]

I left Illinois.

As with everywhere else, racially invidious gun controls there are a sign of a much deeper moral degeneracy.

 

[DeepSouth]

I honestly don’t know.
I get paid more than I’m worth so that complicates things.

So long as my parents are alive and living here I wouldn’t go anywhere either

 

[old lady new shooter]

I did the resisting thing in CA for many years before leaving for the freedom of NV. "Resist" sounds great but in CA it's like banging your head against the wall.

Plus, at least in most of L.A. these days you take your life in your hands every time you walk out the door but they don't give carry permits. I was always armed in my house, but going anywhere was scary.

 

[6.8KT]

I left Illinois.

As with everywhere else, racially invidious gun controls there are a sign of a much deeper moral degeneracy.

I've seen you write that a few times: "racially invidious gun control laws".

invidious

• (of a comparison or distinction) unfairly discriminating; unjust

I won't argue that Illinois doesn't infringe against everybody's right to some degree -- surely they do; but I'm curious as to how you think they're unfairly discriminating against only a certain race?

I'm reading about the law there... I'm guessing it's this clause that has you upset?

Concealed carry licenses are issued by the Illinois State Police on a "Shall Issue" policy. However, Illinois differs from other states in that they still give law enforcement the right to object to a CCW license being issued if they think the applicant is a danger to public safety or themselves. If the police do object then the case is heard by the Concealed Carry Licensing Review Board who will make the final decision if a license is issued. The applicant is notified by mail of the boards decision.

This happened to you or something?

 

[Deanimator]

I've seen you write that a few times: "racially invidious gun control laws".

invidious

• (of a comparison or distinction) unfairly discriminating; unjust

I won't argue that Illinois doesn't infringe against everybody's right to some degree -- surely they do; but I'm curious as to how you think they're unfairly discriminating against only a certain race?

I'm reading about the law there... I'm guessing it's this clause that has you upset?


This happened to you or something?

I'm from Chicago which has at least a century old history of bias, going back at least to the 1919 race riot when the Chicago Police Department abandoned the Black community to White rioters and arsonists.

Gun control is a tool of oppression historically used against the disfavored and despised, be they Indians, Blacks or Jews.

A friend was a criminal defense attorney in Chicago. He said that during the handgun ban, Whites found with handguns got their guns back if they were committing no other crime. Similarly situated Blacks got jail time.

The history of gun control in North America is the history of violent White supremacism and the efforts of its proponents to create for themselves a "safe work environment".

 

[rb288]

I am retired.
I live in urban Florida.
I am packing up my family and moving into my "dream home" in rural Indiana.
Even living in "paradise" can get old after a whileToo many people, no yards, neighbors houses 10 feet away, crazy traffic, snowbirds screwing everything up.
Time to go to my 5 acres in the country.

 

[AlexanderA]

At nearly 74, I'm too old to be pulling up stakes. Not that I haven't thought about it, if Virginia goes the way it appears to be going. If worst comes to worst, I may have to store the subject guns / magazines out of state. That would leave me full of bitterness in my old age.

 

[alsaqr]

i'll stay in Oklahoma and fight the hypocrite political hacks who have played political football with Constitutional carry for many years. In 2018 our Republican legislature passed Constitutional carry near the end of the legislative session. This deliberate act allowed governor Mary Fallen to run out the clock: She vetoed the bill at the end of the legislative session. The sorry legislature refused to come back into session to over ride Fallen's veto.

 

[stillquietvoice]

The way things are going EE are headed toward another 1776 or 1860.
It's pretty sad that our government does into our pockets with taxes and lies to say no new taxes but institute fees for the same services. They take more and more. Even force us to pay for health insurance and make us pay penalties if we can't afford it. Then the insurance we can get doesn't pay a dime until we cover 10,000 dollar deductibles

 

[stillquietvoice]

They attack our rights to speech to be armed...
It's strange that alcohol and pharmisudical drugs are pushed upon us many of which have side effects that will cause harm or kill us but we cannot advertise firearms, which have many more benefits than side effects.

 

[Ks5shooter]

New Jersey here and wanting out bad. Wife wont move.

 

[Spats McGee]

Most likely, stay. This is my home, and I have a wife and child to support. Wife likes it here, child is in high school. Every time I talk about a new job, her first question is, "Would we have to move?" All of her friends are here. The job I do pays better than anything else I'm qualified to do, and I'd have to get licensed in any other state before I could work as an attorney.

 

[Texas10mm]

My wife and I saw the writing on the wall in the pacific northwest and left. We got out of Oregon before they got totally stupid. But, we were in a position where we could leave. No jobs to worry about, no close family in the area.

 

[Mousegun]

Moved from N.J. to Tennessee. Made a good living in N.J. but at age 55, I retired and stayed for one year before the move. I could see N.J. was going further down hill faster than ever.
Now at 73, it would be a tough choice to move again to keep my 2 A rights. How would I know that where I was going wouldn't turn against me in a short time. It seems that as the country goes further away from what it was 35-30 years ago (or more) both demographically and politically, the chances of maintaining what we once had get slimmer. I have not given up, even int Tennessee, there are some gun laws that could use changing and as unlike minded people, from northern and western liberal states move in, the 2A rights stand to be challenged even more.

 

[TomJ]

The problem for me staying in an anti gun state is that the anti gun crowd is typically anti everything else I stand for as well. For all of us who say our lives don't revolve around guns, what about high taxes, high crime, failing education systems, sanctuary status, the list goes on. For some reason all of these things seem to go hand in hand. Sorry but I'm leaving if at all possible. For now I'm in a mostly free State.

This sums it up. I'm in Illinois and will be leaving within the next few years. Owning a business here makes it impossible to just walk away, and my youngest son wants to finish school here. Years ago I would have never thought about leaving and did not pursue jobs in federal law enforcement just so I could stay, but it's changed here. Beside being anti 2A, high taxes and crime plus the financial status of the state leave us with little confidence that things will get better and are driving people out.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Sorry for this off topic post but...........

I get paid more than I’m worth so that complicates things.

You know, you don't often hear anyone admit that, and I just wanted to commend your firm grasp of the facts, your honesty, and your removal of your ego from your employment.

Everyone I know thinks they are underpaid, and they completely ignore the benefits of their employment, which are expansive. They also confuse what they don't like to do at work with hard work. They aren't the same thing.

Good on you sir.

 

[<*(((><]

Most states that are anti-gun are also anti/pro other things that make them distasteful, unconstitutional, immoral and downright poor choices to raise a family (like @ontarget stated). It gets to a point (bad enough) where one person is just supporting the wrong side by contributing to such a state. At this point where there still is another option, I will leave for the sake of my family.

 

[paulsj]

If this is not gun related enough or better suited to another sub forum than by all means mods do what you need to.

We all like to rag on anti 2A states and the most popular sentiment seems to be to tell folks to move.

This is a hypothetical scenario in which whatever gun friendly state you live in or would move to suddenly became anti 2A. Would you move again or stay and fight? By fight mean politically first physical second.

We all think it couldn't happen to us but eventually we WILL run out of places to run.


I'll go first. To outsiders and even some uninformed insiders VA would seem to be a lost cause but there is still hope evidenced by some recent bills that were voted down, and the fact that we have the VCDL which is IMO better than most gun rights organizations except just for VA. Still, I am not in a position to move currently so I would stay and fight for the cause.



Your thoughts......and let's try and keep it civil.

I'm not leaving my lovely liberal neighboorhood located in a state that is going blue.

 

[6.8KT]

My wife and I saw the writing on the wall in the pacific northwest and left. We got out of Oregon before they got totally stupid. But, we were in a position where we could leave. No jobs to worry about, no close family in the area.

Seems like a case of out of the frying pan and into the fire.

The Pacific NW still has a majority population that is fundamentally capable of maintaining some form of enlightened Western civilization -- if only the right images would flash on the TV screen to snap them out of their mind-controlled stupor. While there are a tiny percentage of rabid leftists and true believers up there (antifa types), they're not really capable of much real violence.

Most west coast lefties are just in it for the social media likes, virtue-signaling, misguided compassion for who they are told are the downtrodden, and to fit in with crowd. It's pathological altruism, but it's largely superficial. They're just brainwashed dupes who either do have a big heart, or like to pretend to.

Not so in the Southwest including Texas. Heretofore tempered by a strong economy, sufficient welfare, and a general political apathy among this cohort, but waiting just below the surface, is the capability for a kind of political extremism and ultra-violence unfamiliar to Americans. These semi-literates could easily be convinced to support a commie dictator, and sell away their rights and their futures, if only it meant some free stuff for awhile. They could easily be convinced to go on a bloody offensive if they were to endure any sort of privation.

While Santa Anna was captive in Texas, Joel Roberts Poinsett – U.S. minister to Mexico in 1824 – offered a harsh assessment of General Santa Anna's situation:

Say to General Santa Anna that when I remember how ardent an advocate he was of liberty ten years ago, I have no sympathy for him now, that he has gotten what he deserves.

Santa Anna replied:

Say to Mr. Poinsett that it is very true that I threw up my cap for liberty with great ardor, and perfect sincerity, but very soon found the folly of it. A hundred years to come my people will not be fit for liberty. They do not know what it is, unenlightened as they are, and under the influence of a Catholic clergy, a despotism is a proper government for them, but there is no reason why it should not be a wise and virtuous one.

Nothing has changed in that regard.

 

[theotherwaldo]

I have moved over fifty times to this point, so moving on doesn't scare me.

I consider the health of the first and second amendments to be a strong indicator of the political and social health of an area. If the local leaders fear and despise the common folk to the point that they want them silenced and disarmed - and have the power to see their desires imposed on their area - then I think that it is time to move on.

 

[<*(((><]

Gun control is a tool of oppression historically used against the disfavored and despised, be they Indians, Blacks or Jews.

Yes, and it's ridiculous to me that many of those groups buy into the dogma of "gun control saves lives." As you @Deanimator have probably witnessed in the black culture, many just want the violence to stop by means of gun control. But it's not just there, look at all the Jews that toe the statist line of gun control with WWII Germany fresh in their recent history to take account of. Instead many of the Jews in this country support heavy handed government policies/representatives. They need to brush up on their history.

The history of gun control in North America is the history of violent White supremacism and the efforts of its proponents to create for themselves a "safe work environment".

I would agree at one point in time this was the case. But there are no clear lines to be drawn on gun control advocates in this day and age. It seems to me people have become too comfortable with the government doing everything for themselves, that no one takes personally responsibility for their own actions, safety, food, clothing, health care, college, immorality, integrity, and on and on. We've become a nation of people who want everything now and someone else to do it. Gone are the days of self-responsibility and in such matters as gun violence these people only look at what government can do to solve the problem and fail to recognize the fact that society is crumbling under the weight of a lack of: morality, character, integrity, parenting and self-reliance. Gun control gets swept up in this ever increasing self-delusion.

 

[SSN Vet]

Once a person reaches the age where they have obligations to family, work, debt, etc... the freedom to just up and move because of the political climate can be quickly diminished.

That said, every once in a blue moon (if you're lucky) you might get the opportunity to excercise your "druthers" and do what you want to do, for whatever reason you like. If you have such an opprotunity, consider yourself blessed and chose wisely.

When I seperated from active duty and punched out of the navy, I was obligation free and financially independent.

My choice was made primarily based on friendships, but was made easy by a climate I liked, natural beauty, and the over all Live Free or Die mindset of the state's populace.

I have no regrets.

 

[chicharrones]

I'm staying. Even though my county went purple-blue. Where else would I go to that offers jobs for the type I work I do but another purple-blue metropolis?

Also by staying, other people and my kids get to witness that traditional Americans that also have 2nd amendment values are not a bad thing. Not that other people care, though.

 

[Gridley]

Stay. Because I can't run for the rest of my natural life.

Let's take the west coast as an example. I think most people on this board would agree with me that CA is nuts (and not just on firearms). CA is also imploding - lots of Californians don't want to live there any more. So they move - frequently or OR or WA. They then demand that their new state adopt the policies of CA.

They don't seem to realize that the results of those policies are what made the state implode.

If the "legacy" (sane, conservative, choose whatever word you like) residents of OR and WA (again, just examples) see the policies shifting and run rather than fight... eventually OR and WA will collapse and the refugees will flee to the same places they did... and wreck them too. Noting the population demographics, information nets, etc. I rather expect that, unchecked, this phenomenon will get faster over time.

There are fewer and fewer "good" states every year. Retreat is only a valid strategy if you've got a long term plan to turn things around. So if they only choice is "run or fight", I'll fight. (I believe there are other options, but that's outside the scope of the OP.)

Running just means I'll die tired.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."