Would you let 2A be a factor in a major life decision?

Would you let 2A be a factor in a major life decision - such as where to live.

  • Yes

    Votes: 388 97.5%

  • No

    Votes: 10 2.5%
  • Total voters
    398
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Usualy a place that imposes severe restrictions on firearms is untrusting of its population. That leads to further errosion of things like expectation to privacy and an increase in state/local official's authority etc. However in such places the people also enjoy the biggest government handouts, as the system is less about the ideals of individual freedom, and more about community entitlement, so the mob finds few moral qualms about taking from those they view as "rich" which is just about anyone more successful than themselves. Such locations therefore offer someone with limited skills a greater quality of life by taking more from the successful and distributing it.
So if you do not make a lot of money, you will have better financial situation in an anti gun location on average. If you make above the median you will have a better financial situation in a pro gun location on average.

Ironicly it is people in the anti gun environment who will need a firearm more because other people will be more inclined to take from eachother (rob, burglarize, rape, or kill) feeling entitled to what others have.
It is like the hippy lifestyle. Everyone shares everything and expects everyone else to share everything as well, but most people don't have much to share because of that situation and demand others with something "share" it to compensate.

However if you do not make a lot and live in the extremely pro gun locations you will have few safety nets. Health care will be left up to you for example and employers and others will not be forced by law to provide for much. You will not have much of anything you cannot directly provide for yourself out of pocket and be extremely vulnerable if something unforseen happens. Such an environment is rough and unforgiving.

Most locations are someplace in between and therefore thier views on firearms are as well.
 
Welcome aboard!!. Thanks for sharing your personal feelings on this. I moved from Massachusetts to Florida. From a communist state to a pro gun state. RKBA and CCW issues were MAJOR considerations in moving here. I've been here 15 years and love it. For most of the sheeple, RKBA and their civil liberties/constitutional rights are a non issue, thats why they are sheeple. For the silent majority who care, the preservation of liberty is important.
 
Yes it would be without any question about it.
Put a frog in a pot of water and gradually turn up the heat sooner or later if you live in a state with restricted firearms laws you will run afoul of one law or another and then you will really feel the heat maybe even becoming a convicted felon for something that is legal in 95% of this country.
Vote with your dollars and your feet find a place where your freedom and rights are not curtailed by stupid laws and politicians.
:cuss:
 
Yes. When I was unemployed and we were considering relocation for employment I went to the Brady Bunch's website and noted their grades for the states. In addition to climate, location, socio/political leanings, their "grade" was a major factor. Any state with a a rating above D was removed from consideration. We are back in WA State, which other than banning full auto (which I can't afford anyway) isn't bad.
 
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I voted yes as well - not so much for the fact that I wouldn't be allowed my favorite toys (although that's bad enough), but mainly because I believe that crime is highest where they're forbidden.
 
I'm about to start my 3d year of school at Temple, in Philadelphia. It's a decent law school, but not in the Ivy League pantheon by any means!

However, from any ABA certified school, you can take the bar in whatever state you'd like, so far as I know :) Florida wants you to sign up for theirs a year or two early, to get a good discount, I think. PA isn't on my list, though in the case of PA it's because of their tax system, not gun laws -- the gun laws here are actually pretty sane.

OTOH, I'm in my 30s, and going to law school in large part as an interesting hobby with practical benefits, such as (should I choose to pursue it) being able to practice law. Remember, something like 50 pct of law school grads aren't in active practice, at least that's the figure I keep hearing. (Exactly how which numbers were tweaked to get that figure, sorry, I can't help you on that, dunno.)

Washington State, Texas, a few other places are high on my list for possibly pursuing an actual "legal career" -- I want to live in a place with good gun laws, and no state income tax. I love Texas and would enjoy living there at least part time again (like I tell people, each time I move back there I like it more ;)), but the heat is a killer.

Now, a few of the places to which I applied are in states with what I think are silly or downright immoral gun laws (and, mostly, taxes too), but if I'd really liked them better than Temple, might have gone there anyhow; grad school is grad school, and if that grad school is law school, it's only 3 years. I just wouldn't have planned to live in those places afterward!

timothy
 
Yes it's a factor - I will NOT by choice live permanently in a state hostile to my #1 leisure passtime, where I'd be breaking the law in my own home.

As for school . . . I went to grad school in New York.

I didn't stay there after I got my degree.

I now live in Texas.
 
I'll be heading off to Hofstra at the end of this month. Moving from Minnesota, to New York will be a big change. I will no longer be able to carry, have access to any firearms, and will be limited to nothing more then pepper spray for personal defense. But I will not, no way, no how, never be staying in New York. Just like I wouldn't stay with a girl who demanded that I sell all my guns, I will not live anywhere that denies/curtails my right to own all the firearms I want. Simply stated, after I finish up my graduate degree, I'm going back home or anywhere else BUT those anti-gun states.
 
I sacrificed freedom once, when I was offered a job in Illinois. Being "outsourced" after 17 years trapped there was a blessing. I've been kicking myself ever since, for waiting so long. I'm back in a free state now. Never again!

Wherever you see a state that restricts the 2A, you can be sure that won't be the only thing restricted. Illinois is in a handbasket headed south, and has been for a long time. I make 1/3 less, and am 10x happier. The cost of living difference made up for the lost income, anyway.
 
I would absolutely factor in the Second Amendment, in addition to other politics, in determining where I live. That reason, among many others, is why I will never live in CA, NY, or NJ, for example. There are many "middle of the road" states that I'd consider living in so long as most of my IIA rights are protected, but extremist states like the above-mentioned three will always be excluded from my consideration.

I would and did factor these things in when choosing higher education sites. I am fortunate enough to be in a career that will allow me to live in any state I choose. Law would also afford you that luxury, but, as you said, you would need to jump through a lot of hoops to practice in a new state.

There are plenty of places that are highly regarded that are not in anti-gun states. For example, Dartmouth (Ivy League) is in New Hampshire ("Live free or die"), which has a large proportion of Libertarians (e.g. the free state project).

Michigan (where I live) isn't fantastic or top-tier in terms of gun laws, but it's certainly at least middle of the road (is shall-issue, has castle doctrine & emergency powers protection acts, etc.) and has a lot of universities (e.g. University of Michigan, which, incidentally is extremely liberal and anti-gun, but still has to abide by MI gun laws and has a prominent law school). We have a lot of law schools in MI (UM, MSU, DCL, WSU). We do need purchase permits for pistols ( :barf: ) unless you have a CPL, which negates that requirement. We have reciprocity with other states, also. The land is beautiful, and it's a hunter's paradise.
 
i left a state like that and moved to TN because of guns and taxes. i'd do it again.

i still have to travel through anti-gun states all the time, and i've never been afraid for my safety. it's not a safety issue. it's a freedom issue.

i have met or exceeded all the life goals i set for myself when i was in college save one: i declined to pursue an MBA at wharton when i turned 30 because i just couldn't bear to live in philly due to their absurd anti-gun culture. unfortunately the alternatives were northwestern and harvard and neither of those are acceptable either. so, i'm pretty much skipping that part. oh well. their loss.
 
Taliv: Though I picked the other way (age 30 deadline for law school for me ;)) and decided to take Philly on for a few years, I've seen plenty of reasons in The City of Brotherly Love why going with a great school in San Antonio (St. Mary's) will always nag me as a "Maybe I shoulda done that" alternative.

- My car was broken into. Twice. On the same day. Stole my new green laser pointer, an old (but treasured) Visor Handspring Deluxe which I keep intending to replace so I can get to my backed-up data, some books ... infuriating.

- I was robbed at gunpoint. One thing I'm glad of (in light of the total circumstances) is that on that particular evening I wasn't carrying a gun. I've got my PA CCW permit, and am *not* knocking any (non-criminal) carrying -- I just think that I was blindsided enough on that occasion that I probably would have had it taken from me. A mindset issue, I realize -- I hadn't yet been acclimated to the reality of Philly, having only lived completely innocent places. Like Brooklyn! (Which, in the brief time I spent there, never felt unsafe to me.)

- I've seen a lot of minor crimes being committed (vandalism, mostly) by groups of angry teenagers whose idea of a good time is making sure their anger finds expression.

- As an intern at a Philly municipal court, been awestruck (in the old sense of "awe") by the utter indifference to human life or civility that many of the sort of people who end up facing a Philadelphia judge seem to share. Utterly stone-faced crack dealers, muggers, rapists, who would as soon knock you over for a $5 bill as look in your direction.

But in another year, I'll be waving to Philly in the rear-view mirror; I'm sure to visit friends there, but live there? Not likely, barring some pretty extensive changes. (Which, if made, note, would actually make it an attractive city to me!)

On the larger topic of the OP, note that there's a big disconnect between people like those on this board who absolutely wouldn't move to a place with onerous gun laws (or name your other law-related issue) and those to whom that concept is absurd. When I mention to people that one of the reasons I like certain places is that the gun laws are in my opinion sane ones, some people nod in agreement (even if that's not a pet issue of theirs), others look at me like I'd said I'd only move to a place where I could start a cattle breeding program in a small apartment -- not only does the "gun laws" reason not register as reasonable, it strikes them as actively insane, like insisting on locating somewhere that babies had to be swaddled in sandpaper, all the time.

Oh, well! Best I can do is invite a few more to the range ;)

timothy
 
where I could start a cattle breeding program in a small apartment
Click to expand...

great. Now I'm going to have to start another poll:

"How important is shared-residence cattle breeding to you?"

jk

Thanks for the opinions so far everybody. I think the reason that this is presenting itself as such an issue is that it was only a few years ago that I would have been like the people yhtomit mentions, where the idea of picking a place to live based on gun-laws would have seemed insane.

That combined with the fact that just about every city I had thought of living in has been ruled out due to 2A issues. It was only a few years ago that I swore I'd end up in Chicago, NYC, or Boston. Mostly Chicago though.

So to change plans that are long in the making on something that would have previously seemed insane to me (of course that doesn't anymore though) - it's enough to make me feel a bit uneasy.

I still have a few months to think as I don't have to make a decision for a few months.
 
.cheese -- what schools / cities are you considering?

I see going to school in Philly for a few years as something like taking a sojourn in another country, not my own. But that's an OK thing to do, once in a while. (Or frequently, really.)

And despite those things I don't like about the city, I sure don't feel like a sourpuss -- it's got a lot of truly great things which I will one day be happy to visit again ;) A few great bookstores that I know of -- many more besides, I'm sure, some fantastic and cheap places to eat, museums among some of the best in the world, some great scenery. There are even some areas where the overwhelming sense is friendly optimism!

I've been unable to get to my range much this summer, but for $300/year, I have all-I-can-eat range time just a block from the two most famous cheesesteak places (hint: cheesesteak is worth eating once, to see if it's worth $7 for a sandwich smaller and less customizable from one from Subway), and no-additional-cost rentals from 20 or so gun choices. Not the greatest in the world, but way better than is even possible, in most of the world.

I'd just caution you to rule places out because of the 2A factor -- not that it's not important! -- because sometimes the reality and the reputation are somewhat loosely aligned. Of course, I find it makes a good proxy -- most places with bad gun laws have plenty of other bad laws to go along, and vice versa.

timothy
 
I did, and it worked out (but just barely).

Keep in mind that some career paths limit you to certain geographic areas. If you plan on being a lawyer, the school you attend may further restrict your options.

Should, for example, you wish to practice intellectual property law, you'll likely end up in MA, NY, DC or CA. That's just where the vast majority of the opportunities are--and believe me, I scoured Alaska, Arizona, and Montana for respectable IP firms. The business just isn't there. :(

Fortunately I lucked out at the 11th hour and got a great offer from a fantastic firm in a state with gun laws I can deal with, but it was a close call and CT is hardly a bastion of 2nd Amendment rights.
 
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I will NOT be settling in a place that:

  • requires registration of any kind
  • doesn't allow all NFA toys
  • doesn't have state preemption
  • has any kind of mag restriction
  • errr..........

How about this. I'm not settling in a place with less freedom than arizona.
 
Allow me to preface by saying that what I'm offering is solely my personal opinion, as requested in the original post. I haven't read the rest of the thread, but I will. So you know where I'm coming from, I'm a 23 year old male with a new bachelor's, some experience in my chosen field, and a modest gun collection. Personally, I've come to believe that everything is an exercise of balance. 2A is a factor, and to me, a large one, but if one of my prospective employers called tomorrow and offered the right salary and living conditions in a non-2A friendly state, I'd take it. This would be largely out of the belief that such conditions would, in the long run, be temporary and allow me to grow personally and professionally (part of which would include the growth of my gun collection). Best of luck to you.

Edited to add: In the meantime, of course, I wouldn't sell any fireamrs that I wasn't otherwise willing to part with. Get a good friend or family member to hold them in storage for as long as is necessary.
 
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Should, for example, you wish to practice intellectual property law, you'll likely end up in MA, NY, DC or CA.
Click to expand...

Well it goes without saying that the places most dependent on law and lawyers, and have the greatest number of laws and therefore violations and challenges regarding law are going to have the biggest employment opportunities for lawyers.

Places with more laws have more lawsuits, more violations of law, and more complex laws and restrictions that leave the commoners dumbfounded requiring them to seek the assistance of lawyers more frequently. This in turn increases demand and employment opportunities in that field.
 
I was faced with this decision when I did my grad school applications. I grew up in California and sorely wanted to leave. When I got all the acceptance and rejection letters back the best school I got into was in California. So I stayed, but I told my fiancé that when I go out on the job market one requirement is that the gun laws have to be more agreeable than California's are. If I got offered a job at Harvard would I take it? I don't really know the answer to that question, but I am pretty sure Harvard will never call me. If I had to move to a place like New York city, Chicago, or DC, I might think twice about it, but as long as I have the ability to defend myself I would not have a problem sucking it up for a little while.
 
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Yes

I just earned my undergraduate degree. Firearms laws did play a part in my choice of schools. They will continue to play a role in my life decisions.
 
yes...sry, I ramble, but the point is buried here somewhere.

The PNW is pretty gun friendly. Of course, this stops right at the Cali border. However, even the Northern California folks are pretty 2A friendly for it is mostly rural until you get near Sacramento, then the liberal density gets pretty darn high and continues to the Mexican Border.

I'd encourage you to find a more 2A friendly state because RKBA folks are going to be needed in areas like the PNW states. These Californians are making so much money on their homes that they are starting to infect the places with once overwhelmingly gun friendly laws. Of late, Bend, Oregon is a good example. These wealthy Californians move in, don't need a job because they sold their home in Cali for oodles of cash and have much of it left over. Then these folks get bored and start moving into politics to pass the time between their tee times. This then brings the anti influence into your back yard that used to be heavily pro-2A and starts the whittling away of your liberties. I've seen it in Bend, and it's unsettling.

So, instead of moving to a nanny state where you are already on the minority side of the 2A debate, move to a place where the Californian, Illiniosan and New Yorker types are infecting the current freedom level of an otherwise pro-2A state. We need more pro-gun folks in the RKBA states before these liberals undermine us too much and start thinking the ideals of the nanny states need to be implemented here too. They are doing this same thing in Portland, and it is bothersome. But, people don't turn down big dollars for their houses, so instead, you have to fight those moving in that want to change this "new" place into their California, New York or Illinois.

We need help with the fight, because no true PNW native really has much affection for Californians, period. I'm no exception and I have met plenty of Californians in college and on the ski slopes of Mt. Hood that live in Hood River. These are not the people you want in your community because they usually want that community to change into the place they left, namely California in my locale. Some deny this fact, but the political results they are producing make their arguement a moot point. They are infecting the free states, help stop the bleeding.

As for a good school though, if the employment and income opportunties are increased significantly by residing in an anti state for the term of your education, I think I'd go for it. However, I'd only do this with a plan to make an exodus from said nanny state immediately upon graduation. I've met a lot of Cornell graduates in my line of work, and a large cross section of them are anti-nanny state libertarians. Not indoctrinated liberals that come out of so many liberal schools.

Me, I can't complain. I was born and raised in Oregon. When attending college at Oregon Institute of Technology in the small community of Klamath Falls in Southern Oregon, we had it good. K. Falls is a predominantly rural-ish setting. I mean we literally were able to take our 22 rifles across the street of the campus and shoot the Columbia ground squirrels that seem to be everywhere in farm country. Never once did the police or campus security ever even bat an eye at us. And we did this pretty often.

Could I do this same thing today, yes, I probably could if the homes have not encroached on that area. It has been built up quite a bit since the hospital is across the street, but the sentiment of the people seems to be the same. I have not been there in a few years, but my entire family is from this area going back three generations. Grandfather, mother and wife were all 12 year students of the same school, no kidding. And as much as I thought it was a sleepy little cow town, I miss it.

But, I'm older now and can still remember when you would see trucks in the high school parking lot with rifles in the back windows and no one thought boo about it, guess I'm showing my age. I really miss those days.
 
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