Wouldn't a weapon light give away your position?

[CountGlockula]

I've picked up a couple of Surefire handgun weapon lights: X200B and hand held Outdoorsman E2L flashlight. The purpose of these, initially, was to I.D. an intruder in the dark. When I hear something "bump" in the night I don't want to mistakenly injure or kill the family dog or a loved one.

But what got me thinking is: if a bad guy were to see the beam of light and use that as a excellent target. Could there be a disadvantage with weapon lights?

I have the X200B with a pressure switch so it enables me to control the on/off switch.

Thoughts on this? Thank you.

 

[Jenrick]

It does. The counter point is that they are most likely blinded (those suckers are really bright), and you know can see to engage. I carry one on my duty weapon for that reason. You shouldn't use your weapon light for just generally lighting up things and places to check on whatever. That's what flashlights are for. If you think you've got a true bump=intruder situation and need to go looking, that's what the lights for. Get them lit up and do what you need to do.

-Jenrick

 

[El Tejon]

A disadvantage? In life? Say it's not so, I thought this was a perfect world.

All of life is a two-edged sword. The answer lies not in your hardware, but in your software.

Now, if you can snatch this .45 acp round from my hand, young brasshopper, you are then free to leave the temple. *gong sounds*

Ponder this: what is the sound of one .308 firing?

 

[CountGlockula]

LOL! Thanks!

 

[mpmarty]

My 90 lumen light hung under my XD45 bedside weapon illuminates a very small circle and the poi is in the middle of that circle at fifteen yards. My home is 3600 square feet on one level and I have strategically located night lights stuck in wall outlets around the house. An intruder is going to get a blast of light in his face and if he exhibits any agressiveness he gets a blast of another type, administered rapidly and repeatedly until said behavior stops. Of course, if there are multiple intruders I take up a defensive position and become less agressive myself. All plans are subject to revision depending on circumstances.

 

[pax]

The purpose of these, initially, was to I.D. an intruder in the dark. When I hear something "bump" in the night I don't want to mistakenly injure or kill the family dog or a loved one.

If you really don't want to mistakenly injure or kill a loved one, do not use your weapon-mounted light for target ID. Lights on the end of a gun are an aid to shooting, only. That goes for flashlights, laser lights, and anything else that is lined up with the muzzle of your gun.

Hanging a light on your gun does not turn your gun into a flashlight. It simply turns it into a deadly weapon that has a light attached to it. The weapon-mounted light can be a good tool as long as you remember that fact. If you forget it, however, you could be the cause of a family tragedy.

For the target identification problem, you need a light that is not in line with the muzzle of your gun. Otherwise, what you're planning to do is to point the firearm directly at your loved one, in a moment of high stress when any unexpected sound or movement could startle you into shooting them.

That's a bad plan.

pax

 

[El Tejon]

Like pax sez, that's why those quick change lights rock.

Count, get signed up for a low light class with Clint Smith (biased I've been there a bunch and will soon see him again), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYghKoWgMnE

Or, heck, you are within broad jumping range of ITTS, get there and get a class or three, http://www.internationaltactical.com/index.asp

If you want my thoughts, and, hey, who woudn't, training is the best answer (i.e., when do I use a light, when do I not? How do I use the light? Lecture, training, practice, force on force, inter alia). Hanging another piece of gear on your weapon is a thought and often not well constructed.

 

[tydephan]

Could there be a disadvantage with weapon lights?

Of course.

Always remember: Just because you have it, doesn't mean you have to use it.

As El T said (blatantly stealing from sm), Software over Hardware.

 

[El Tejon]

Did I steal that?

I thought I was first???

Oh, well, I'll have to look into it. (Maybe I owe him a check?)

 

[MaterDei]

I don't believe carrying a flashlight in one hand and a weapon with weapon light in the other makes any sense at all. If you are uncomfortable with using a weapon light for target ID then do not have one at all.

You can blind and ID a potential target with a weapon light without actually pointing your weapon at the target. The light side spill is large enough to allow for adequate illumination and blinding of the target before actually covering the target with your weapon.

The other alternative is a modified two handed grip with a flashlight in one hand. Again, you can illuminate your target without violating rule 4.

 

[Bix]

As noted, training can help mitigate the issues with light use. I'll throw in a recommendation for Ken Hackathorn's low light stuff - it's a neat, cohesive 'system'. I'd love to fly out for this class:

http://www.vickerstactical.com/training/courses_CarbinePistol.htm

 

[indie]

i tend to think, if you are clearing your home with a weapon, chances are you are going to have the muzzle pointed at the person you encounter and are attempting to identify until you determine whether its a friendly or a bad guy?


the gun mounted light just makes it handy to "check" and temporarily disorient the person at the other end.


i just dont think its really smart wait until you identify the intruder as a definite bad guy before you point your weapon? Then it really become a race to "get them before they get you"

a separate flashlight takes away a free hand.

 

[tydephan]

Did I steal that?

I thought I was first???

Oh, well, I'll have to look into it. (Maybe I owe him a check?)

El Tejon
Join Date: 12-24-02
Location: Lafayette, Indiana-the rest stop on I-65 between Chicago & Indy
Posts: 15,223

tydephan
Join Date: 11-07-06
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 803

El T, what the hell do I know? I thought sm coined that phrase, but you've lived here much longer than I have!!!! Regardless, I doubt Steve would smack you around too much.

 

[The Wiry Irishman]

I asked my friend the same question when he slung a surefire under his Kimber 1911, gave him a hard time about it, becuase that's what friends are for. To support his side of the argument, he popped the surefire off the gun, turned off the lights in the apartment, then shined me in the face from across the hall. I saw his point, as well as a giant purple spot that obscured my vision for several minutes afterword. Leave the your lights on and shine yourself with your surefire (removed from your gun, of course) and you'll see what I mean.

A weapon light is more than just a visual aid, its a weapon in its own right. If you shine an intruder, even briefly if they are running, etc, they will be blinded while the light is on them and will have severely obscured vision after. In the event that violence becomes necessary it will give you a huge tactical advantage, and the disorientation may even deter the BG, which would be a very good thing. While I believe everyone here is willing to use force to defend themselves, I don't think anyone actually wants to shoot anybody.

 

[camslam]

If you ever have a situation where you hear something and you have to go investigate in your house at 2:00 am, you will be glad you have tac light ON your gun.

YMMV, but when it happened to me, I have never been in love with my Glock 21 carrying a M6 tactical light/laser.

Not having to worry about holding a flashlight and doing the fancy carry over with the flashlight under my gun hand was effecient and left me ready to act. Everyone is different, but like I said, I love my tac light/laser and it isn't going anywhere. Any disadvantages it has are far outweighed by the advantages.

 

[El Tejon]

TWI, well, maybe, but a light is not some sort of Force Field like the glossy gun rag make it out to be. When you do force on force you find out that people squint and pull the trigger and do not react like vampires seeing a cross or something like in the glossy gun rags.

Do your experiment again. Give yourself an airsoft gun and have your buddy shine the light and you shoot. You owe me a beer for every 6mm pellet that hits your buddy.

Clint Smith has excellent story that his buddy Dave Spaulding, the retired Ohio cop and gun rag scribe told him about an incident that happened at the SWAT Olympics in Orlando. Some musclehead SWAT cop told Spaulding that "my light is a weeeeaaaappppoooon, tH3 d34dly!"

Spaulding armed himself with a Sim gun and Musclecop armed himself with his d34dly light. Musclehead used the light and ran in, Spaulding shot him square in the genitals. Musclehead went to the ground and rolled about. Spaulding went for a soda.

 

[AndyC]

Properly-used, a light is a weapon. Improperly-used, it becomes your opponent's best friend.

You don't switch it on, leave it on and go charging into the dark - a basic technique is the flash-move: You flash on-off -> move away immediately -> flash on-off -> move -> etc

 

[ssfeldjager]

Well, it's always nice to be able to see your target...

 

[CountGlockula]

I'll look into training with a light. I know that'll help out a lot.

I would use both a weapon light and flashlight at the same time. That's pretty much my handgun accessory hardware. Sometimes I don't have the X200B attached to my Glock so my flashlight is right next to my bed.

Thanks for the input folks. Keep adding your thoughts.

 

[Atticus]

I've had several...but no longer own one. They look really cool and are a great way to tie up a few hundred bucks. Now I just use a Surefire hand-held or simply turn on the lights....and spent the few hundred $ on other stuff.

 

[The Unknown User]

The purpose for using a light is in low-light situations. In a low-light situation, your eyes dilate so as to allow any and all light in, as opposed to high-light situations where your pupils do the opposite to not allow too much light in.

So, assuming you're using your light for its intended purpose, if you shine your light at a potential aggressor, who's eyes have dilated to allow light in, they will be temporarily blinded as they will have just looked into a very bright light source when their eyes were desperate for just a little.

 

[The Wiry Irishman]

TWI, well, maybe, but a light is not some sort of Force Field like the glossy gun rag make it out to be. When you do force on force you find out that people squint and pull the trigger and do not react like vampires seeing a cross or something like in the glossy gun rags.

Do your experiment again. Give yourself an airsoft gun and have your buddy shine the light and you shoot. You owe me a beer for every 6mm pellet that hits your buddy.

El Tejon - I realize gun lights aren't magical but I can see how it came off as such the way I phrased it. The point I was trying to make is that they can allow you to do things you couldn't do without the light, give you other options. Personally, I still make fun of my friend for his light, and his AR15 with tons of silly accessories, and I'll probably never own a gun light. He just made me understand that they can indeed serve a purpose.

As for your proposed airsoft expirement - I'm used to shooting at a bullseye the size of a pool cue but no matter what someone's skill level, a person is a pretty big target, especially from 10-25 feet in an indoor situation. If the experiment were to be performed, even if I didn't practice much, I think I'd still end up owing you more beers than I could afford. You're completely right, and my earlier post was far too strongly worded.

 

[El Tejon]

Yes, making fun of gun nuts and their gear obsessions is always good clean fun.

As to tone, no one cares, its only the Errornet.

 

[Never No More]

Id say it depends on the situation

In combat NEVER

I popped a guy who bent over to light a cigarette with his helmet covering the match.

I saw the flash, waited until he turned and inhaled.

Hope that puff was worth it.


Even with red light there is a chance to be seen. I have a laser with a push button on my wife's SKS. She practices to get the sight picture, paint the target, fire, release the button.
Even with it on for 1-2 seconds, there is a chance it can be seen .

 

[shooter1]

As Indie stated, when clearing you want your weapon pointed where you are looking. The old "Third Eye" priciple. If you are using a light it might as well be attached to the weapon. The frees up one hand for opening doors, operating light switches and such. I have cleared many a structure in low light/no light conditions. You can bet that anyone I encountered in those situtations had a weapon pointed at them. In real life, when clearing, you point your weapon at any potential adversary until you deterime if they are friend or foe. That includes your residence. A light is a necessity. It can be both an asset and a liability. When used properly, it is hopefully more of the former than the latter. Everything is a compromise. Find some low light training, preferably force on force, and learn how to use your equipment and tactics to improve the odds of your survival. I have trained in flashlight techniques and prefer the weapon mounted lights for clearing. I always carried a hand held light as well for other tasks.
str1