IMHO it makes as much sense to rack the slide as it does to walk through a darkened house and holler" HELLO IS ANYONE THERE HELLO!!!" It does the same thing. The same with walking with your flashlight on until you at least suspect you are close or you can locate a noise or a target. Don't let the BG know he's been had any sooner than you have to.
Do you REALLY want to rack a shotgun when you hear a bump in the night?
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Quintin Likely
Member
In my house, you might be. I got cash in the bank, credit cards, a checking account, and insurance. I too, don't like the idea of someone running off with stuff I busted my tail to get, but its nothing that can't be replaced.
In the meantime though, I'm behind cover in the bedroom with a loaded shotgun in one hand and a cell phone with the sheriff on the line in the other.
YM, of course, MV.
My first thought is for my son. He's 1 year old and upstairs while we are downstairs. My home defense weapon is a Sig P229. The way the house is laid out I have to pass every room to get to my son's room from my room, so in the process of securing my son, I will probably have to confront a BG. I just pray that if it happens, I shoot straight.
I don't think anyone can say they "Won't lose any sleep" over killing a BG...unless they've killed before. I haven't, and honestly don't know how I'd react if such a circumstance were to occur. If I'm lucky, I never will.
For that matter, until you've shot at someone with intent to kill, I don't see how you can know that you won't freeze. I've talked to some LEO's who patrol the nastier parts of Kansas City, MO and they all say you don't know until the time comes whether you can fire a gun when necessary.
I don't think anyone can say they "Won't lose any sleep" over killing a BG...unless they've killed before. I haven't, and honestly don't know how I'd react if such a circumstance were to occur. If I'm lucky, I never will.
For that matter, until you've shot at someone with intent to kill, I don't see how you can know that you won't freeze. I've talked to some LEO's who patrol the nastier parts of Kansas City, MO and they all say you don't know until the time comes whether you can fire a gun when necessary.
SapperLeader
Member
Unfortunatly im in a bad situation, since Im a college student living at home in the basement, with my family two floors above me. If a intruder did gain entry, I would have to clear those two floors to reach my family. When my brother is home, he barricades himself with the family upstairs, and I can stay put, but the rest of the time, Im in a lose lose situation to protect my family. Luckily the most likely entrypoint in the house is the one the dog and myself sleep by, so the chances of someone gaining entry without alerting me are extremely slim. In that situation I would grab my cruiser ready shotgun and have to pump it to bring it into action.
Red_SC
Member
My shotgun is kept 'crusier ready', as well. That sound will be enough to discourage a lot of intruders. And if I don't have time, or decide it's not tactically sound? Well, the .45 is closer, anyway, and all I have to do with it is pull the trigger.
L
Logistar
Guest
I have a hard time just standing by while someone just walks in my house and carries off my stuff. As always, it is difficult to say without actually being in the situation. I would likely confront them and attempt to stop them. If I felt any physical threat, I would not wait. All I need are positive ID and ANY threatening gesture.
Maybe I will be killed during a burglary or end up in jail because it was judged a "bad shoot". But I will not be intimidated or humiliated by some scum that thinks he can just take anything I own. It's a matter of principle to me.
I am not saying everyone should do that but as long as we preach "let 'em go... don't hurt them... don't even take on chance on hurting them..." they'll keep coming in increasing numbers. If someone tries it at my place, I'll do my best to see that he doesn't try it a second time. - My meaning is arrest and conviction if possible but again if I feel threatened....
My .02 - YMMV
Logistar
if i was an armed intruder and i heard someone pump a shotty i wouldn't run for fear of being shot in the back, rather i would take up a defensive posture until we met or i could safely make my way out. with that being said NO, i wouldn't rack my shotgun.
fix
Member
I wouldn't shoot you in the back, but you can bet the whole enchilada that I'd shoot you in the mouth.
JamisJockey
member
Paleface,
Criminals are usually cowards. They would rather not confront an unkown threat (armed homeowner), and would probably run at the sound of a firearm being made ready.
That said, the only warning an intruder gets in my house is the muzzle flash...
Criminals are usually cowards. They would rather not confront an unkown threat (armed homeowner), and would probably run at the sound of a firearm being made ready.
That said, the only warning an intruder gets in my house is the muzzle flash...
well ill agree with you, when you break into someones house you(in my opinion) void any warning you would have got if we met on the street. im mean seriously if i was a criminal i would think i was taking a pretty big risk breaking into to someones house and personaly wouldn't expect a warning.
Sleuth
Member
From some of the responses here, I can see that some of you have no idea how criminals think. You would be surprise what they think, and yes, being a coward is high on there list of things to do. That is sometimes overcome by the drugs/alcohol they take. Survey after survey shows that they fear being shot by a homeowner far more than being shot by the police.
Ah, if you could only listen in on some of their conversations. Try to meet a corrections officer, and talk to them about how outlaws think. Running away is of far more interest to them than getting involved with an armed homeowner.
Ah, if you could only listen in on some of their conversations. Try to meet a corrections officer, and talk to them about how outlaws think. Running away is of far more interest to them than getting involved with an armed homeowner.
If Louis Awerbuck really said that, he's an idiot. (No, I don't think he's an idiot. I think somebody didn't understand what Awerbuck was saying.)
Okay, let's settle this once and for all:
Every situation is exactly the same. You should NEVER/ALWAYS (pick one) rack the slide to warn an intruder.
Okay?
Min
Member
I would never rack my slide to warn an intruder.
Instead I would wait, after I have learned how many and whether armed/unarmed. Then I would prepare myself for that moment when the intruder comes face to face with the barrel of a CHAMBERED 12 gauge shotgun. I will give him a few seconds to run away. If he does not, boom.
Instead I would wait, after I have learned how many and whether armed/unarmed. Then I would prepare myself for that moment when the intruder comes face to face with the barrel of a CHAMBERED 12 gauge shotgun. I will give him a few seconds to run away. If he does not, boom.
Tamara
Senior Member
I in/completely dis/agree.
When confronted with (a)
[] home invader
[] unarmed burglar
[] Bobo the clown
[] Governator
you should ALWAYS
[] rack the shotgun, call 911
[] ready the chambered shotgun, call 911
[] hold it by the barrel with both hands, use voice dial for 911
[] grab your "samurai sword" and prepare for 8 years in jail, call 911 anyway
and
[] fire two times.
[] fire one time (this is a 12-gauge!).
[] empty the shotgun and the Lord decide (this *is* a 12-gauge!).
Subsequent after-action procedures should ALWAYS include
[] Informing the 911 operator that the assailant is down, express regret.
[] Informing the 911 operator that the arse-biting nutbag is *down*, baybee!
[] Informing the 911 operator that your samurai sword needs sharpening.
[] Informing the 911 operator that you were mistaken, ask to borrow a shovel.
In summary, this post
[] was actually pretty funny.
[] was derrivative, and I don't mean matehmatically.
[] *eeeerrrZOOOOOOM*
[] eh? (confusion, not Canadian).
[] home invader
[] unarmed burglar
[] Bobo the clown
[] Governator
you should ALWAYS
[] rack the shotgun, call 911
[] ready the chambered shotgun, call 911
[] hold it by the barrel with both hands, use voice dial for 911
[] grab your "samurai sword" and prepare for 8 years in jail, call 911 anyway
and
[] fire two times.
[] fire one time (this is a 12-gauge!).
[] empty the shotgun and the Lord decide (this *is* a 12-gauge!).
Subsequent after-action procedures should ALWAYS include
[] Informing the 911 operator that the assailant is down, express regret.
[] Informing the 911 operator that the arse-biting nutbag is *down*, baybee!
[] Informing the 911 operator that your samurai sword needs sharpening.
[] Informing the 911 operator that you were mistaken, ask to borrow a shovel.
In summary, this post
[] was actually pretty funny.
[] was derrivative, and I don't mean matehmatically.
[] *eeeerrrZOOOOOOM*
[] eh? (confusion, not Canadian).
Moparmike
Member
When confronted with (a)
[X] home invader
[X] unarmed burglar
[X] Bobo the clown
[] Governator
you should ALWAYS
[X] rack the shotgun, call 911
[] ready the chambered shotgun, call 911
[] hold it by the barrel with both hands, use voice dial for 911
[X] grab your "samurai sword" and prepare for 8 years in jail, call 911 anyway
and
[X] fire two times.
[] fire one time (this is a 12-gauge!).
[] empty the shotgun and the Lord decide (this *is* a 12-gauge!).
Subsequent after-action procedures should ALWAYS include
[] Informing the 911 operator that the assailant is down, express regret.
[X] Informing the 911 operator that the arse-biting nutbag is *down*, baybee!
[X] Informing the 911 operator that your samurai sword needs sharpening.
[X Informing the 911 operator that you were mistaken, ask to borrow a shovel.
In summary, this post
[X] was actually pretty funny.
[] was derrivative, and I don't mean matehmatically.
[] *eeeerrrZOOOOOOM*
[] eh? (confusion, not Canadian).
[X] home invader
[X] unarmed burglar
[X] Bobo the clown
[] Governator
you should ALWAYS
[X] rack the shotgun, call 911
[] ready the chambered shotgun, call 911
[] hold it by the barrel with both hands, use voice dial for 911
[X] grab your "samurai sword" and prepare for 8 years in jail, call 911 anyway
and
[X] fire two times.
[] fire one time (this is a 12-gauge!).
[] empty the shotgun and the Lord decide (this *is* a 12-gauge!).
Subsequent after-action procedures should ALWAYS include
[] Informing the 911 operator that the assailant is down, express regret.
[X] Informing the 911 operator that the arse-biting nutbag is *down*, baybee!
[X] Informing the 911 operator that your samurai sword needs sharpening.
[X Informing the 911 operator that you were mistaken, ask to borrow a shovel.
In summary, this post
[X] was actually pretty funny.
[] was derrivative, and I don't mean matehmatically.
[] *eeeerrrZOOOOOOM*
[] eh? (confusion, not Canadian).
Chip Dixon
Member
Fortunately MD does have the castle law. If you get invaded in your house or business, you don't have to jump out a window to get away. With MD allowing NFAs, a tommy gun makes a nice castle defense weapon.
Ben Shepherd
Member
All they would hear is a big boom. No rack, just push the safety off on the way to the trigger.
I'm with the stuff isn't worth a life, but the underlying principal is crowd.
I've had it with crackheads and thier like pulling this crap.
If your 12, 16, whatever year old is in my house, too bad. The had to defeat at least 2 windows or locks to get in, and they did it on purpose. They will get no breaks from me in my own house.
I'm barely 30 and have buried all but 2 of my school buddies. Some shot, some suicides, some accidents, all just as dead. And most left spouses and/or kids behind. Not a BOO-HOO for me statement, all I'm saying is up to this point life has taught me it isn't always fair or nice and you have to live with the consequenses of your own actions, not hope you will get a break from someone.
Can I live with if it happens? Guess I'll have to, but I hope never to find out.
I'm with the stuff isn't worth a life, but the underlying principal is crowd.
I've had it with crackheads and thier like pulling this crap.
If your 12, 16, whatever year old is in my house, too bad. The had to defeat at least 2 windows or locks to get in, and they did it on purpose. They will get no breaks from me in my own house.
I'm barely 30 and have buried all but 2 of my school buddies. Some shot, some suicides, some accidents, all just as dead. And most left spouses and/or kids behind. Not a BOO-HOO for me statement, all I'm saying is up to this point life has taught me it isn't always fair or nice and you have to live with the consequenses of your own actions, not hope you will get a break from someone.
Can I live with if it happens? Guess I'll have to, but I hope never to find out.
So I'm reading this thread...
And it's late (after midnight, this is like 40 minutes ago). I'm in an upstairs bedroom/office and the lights on in this room can't be seen from outside. And I'm reading like the third post on the topic, and suddenly my dog behind me lets out a nasssssssty growl. He's at the top of the stairs, looking down. This dog *never* growls. I grab my 1911 (kept in condition 3) from the other bedroom, move behind the dog, rack it which is loud as hell in a quiet house with high ceilings, and hear myself say very distinctly, "If anyone's there... get the f*$& out... NOW." Adrenaline made my voice seriously no-s#%$, and the racking of the .45, and that first no-nonsense growl from the dog should have sent anyone with even a half a brain running. If I'd seen anyone on the stairs or landing at that point who had ignored those warnings, they'd have gotten double-tapped.
After about 10 minutes of silence, I grabbed the cell, dialed 911 without hitting send, and checked out the place. Bottom line: no intruders, all doors locked, all windows intact. I don't know what triggered the dog -- maybe someone rattling the door handle or something. Maybe there was just a cat yowling outside - but the dog has *never* growled like that before. Mystery.
Anyway everything is OK here, false alarm. Writing this post to like-minded people is a nice way to let the adrenaline subside. Sorry for being long winded. Well, you did ask if I'd rack a slide - now you know. (I keep it in condition 3 because it's on the nightstand, and I'd be afraid of reaching for the phone when half asleep and hearing a BOOM.)
The stairway is the most defensible spot in the house. Looking back on what I've just written - yeah. If an intruder had been in my house, ignored the dog's growl (big dog, 70 pounds), and the racking of the gun, and my warning - if they'd ignored all that and still tried to come towards me, I'd have to assume that meant they were only interested in harming me rather than just stealing stuff, then yeah - I would have shot them.
Thank you, Lord, for there not being anyone there.
And it's late (after midnight, this is like 40 minutes ago). I'm in an upstairs bedroom/office and the lights on in this room can't be seen from outside. And I'm reading like the third post on the topic, and suddenly my dog behind me lets out a nasssssssty growl. He's at the top of the stairs, looking down. This dog *never* growls. I grab my 1911 (kept in condition 3) from the other bedroom, move behind the dog, rack it which is loud as hell in a quiet house with high ceilings, and hear myself say very distinctly, "If anyone's there... get the f*$& out... NOW." Adrenaline made my voice seriously no-s#%$, and the racking of the .45, and that first no-nonsense growl from the dog should have sent anyone with even a half a brain running. If I'd seen anyone on the stairs or landing at that point who had ignored those warnings, they'd have gotten double-tapped.
After about 10 minutes of silence, I grabbed the cell, dialed 911 without hitting send, and checked out the place. Bottom line: no intruders, all doors locked, all windows intact. I don't know what triggered the dog -- maybe someone rattling the door handle or something. Maybe there was just a cat yowling outside - but the dog has *never* growled like that before. Mystery.
Anyway everything is OK here, false alarm. Writing this post to like-minded people is a nice way to let the adrenaline subside. Sorry for being long winded. Well, you did ask if I'd rack a slide - now you know. (I keep it in condition 3 because it's on the nightstand, and I'd be afraid of reaching for the phone when half asleep and hearing a BOOM.)
The stairway is the most defensible spot in the house. Looking back on what I've just written - yeah. If an intruder had been in my house, ignored the dog's growl (big dog, 70 pounds), and the racking of the gun, and my warning - if they'd ignored all that and still tried to come towards me, I'd have to assume that meant they were only interested in harming me rather than just stealing stuff, then yeah - I would have shot them.
Thank you, Lord, for there not being anyone there.
Ben Shepherd
Member
No she wasn't Quartus. I think I get your point.
You can't choose the surrounding circumstances. Is that what you meant or am I off base?
Heck if we could choose them, I would choose to never have someone break into my house.
You can't choose the surrounding circumstances. Is that what you meant or am I off base?
Heck if we could choose them, I would choose to never have someone break into my house.
If the point was to pick a strategy and stick to it, I think there were a few people that got it.
I don't, however, agree. I don't like the "every situation is the same" approach. Having a plan and trying to make all situations fit it is dangerous. There are too many variables to take a "grab the shotgun, rain down righteous fury" approach. You gonna hose down a 16-year old girl who broke in to use your phone? (After she tried to get your attention? Are you a heavy sleeper? Is it possible that you just didn't hear/know? As with another thread, maybe you walk up as you think it's "going down for real," etc.) The question isn't is it justified (which it may or may not be). The question is did you make a mistake (as much as taking an innocent life can simply be called a "mistake") that could have been prevented by not sticking to one-size-fits-all plan.
With all the people spending money on courses at places like Gunsite and Blackwater, I'm surprised to hear nothing about them testing problem solving skills. Is it true that these places are just "run though and shoot all the cardboard without a no-shoot sticker?" I'd heard that one (TR?) used simmunitions and live role-playing? That seems like a very good idea. The one and only thing I've agreed with Ayoob on is his focus on when to shoot, not how to shoot. Marksmanship can be learned on a student's own time. IDPA matches are (usually) easy to find and attend. Feedback comes in the form of group size and times. Problem solving, OTOH, by one's self has no avenue for feedback. Unless, of course, one can tell when one is wrong.
I don't, however, agree. I don't like the "every situation is the same" approach. Having a plan and trying to make all situations fit it is dangerous. There are too many variables to take a "grab the shotgun, rain down righteous fury" approach. You gonna hose down a 16-year old girl who broke in to use your phone? (After she tried to get your attention? Are you a heavy sleeper? Is it possible that you just didn't hear/know? As with another thread, maybe you walk up as you think it's "going down for real," etc.) The question isn't is it justified (which it may or may not be). The question is did you make a mistake (as much as taking an innocent life can simply be called a "mistake") that could have been prevented by not sticking to one-size-fits-all plan.
With all the people spending money on courses at places like Gunsite and Blackwater, I'm surprised to hear nothing about them testing problem solving skills. Is it true that these places are just "run though and shoot all the cardboard without a no-shoot sticker?" I'd heard that one (TR?) used simmunitions and live role-playing? That seems like a very good idea. The one and only thing I've agreed with Ayoob on is his focus on when to shoot, not how to shoot. Marksmanship can be learned on a student's own time. IDPA matches are (usually) easy to find and attend. Feedback comes in the form of group size and times. Problem solving, OTOH, by one's self has no avenue for feedback. Unless, of course, one can tell when one is wrong.
The point was that different circumstances just MAY require different tactics. One size does NOT fit all. There MAY be a time when racking the slide is NOT the right thing. And other times it may be the BEST thing. Don't get stuck in a rut.
Adapt. Improvise. Overcome.
Adapt. Improvise. Overcome.
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