Your 1911 reliability

[triplebike]

How many 1911 owners here have fired 6000+ rds without a single failure? How many of you think that your 1911 could fire that many rounds in a couple of days without any cleaning or maintenance?

Honest replies without any BS would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Furncliff]

No B.S., that's asking a little much isn't it?

 

[rellascout]

I have but with an * I have had zero failures that I would blame on the 1911 itself but have had what I would consider mag spring or shooter induced failures.

My DW CBOB & Baer TRS both make the cut. I have several others in the 3,000 + range.

I believe that the Les Baer & CBOB, and my Colt 70 could make the cut again assuming all other parties do their part.

 

[Nushif]

I think my gun could do it. No BS.

But I will be honest here and say that at this point in my shooting skills development for the 1911 ... No way I could run it there.

 

[1911Tuner]

How many 1911 owners here have fired 6000+ rds without a single failure? How many of you think that your 1911 could fire that many rounds in a couple of days without any cleaning or maintenance?

I have, and I do as long as I get to use jacketed ammo...but I will put a few drops of oil in the rails every 500 rounds or so.

And, the Army tests included stopping to let the gun cool and do a cleaning and oiling every hundred rounds. It's not like they fired 6,000 rounds without any sort of attention given.

 

[bjs1187]

I shot 1000 through my 1911 with 200 lswc that I reloaded without cleaning or doing anything to it just to see what would happen. I know it's not 6000, but it went all the way through. that said, the reason I did that was because I was having problems with load issues and jams with LSWC' bullets, so once I thought I had the kinks I did this so I could be my life on the gun and the load. Also, I have never had a jam with the gun of any kind with a 230 grain jacketed bullet. It's a para 1911.

 

[Chris Rhines]

It's not really a 1911, but my 9mm STI Eagle 5.0 has fired 2300 rounds with no malfunctions, no cleaning and no maintenance. I'll probably clean and re-lubricate it when it hits the 2500-round mark.

I've no doubt that a properly built 1911 could fire 6000+ rounds without malfunctioning. With zero maintenance? That's a much tougher test, and one I doubt many pistols could pass.

-C

 

[rellascout]

And, the Army tests included stopping to let the gun cool and do a cleaning and oiling every hundred rounds. It's not like they fired 6,000 rounds without any sort of attention given.

True... cooling down and a wipe down go a long way.

 

[triplebike]

I have, and I do as long as I get to use jacketed ammo...but I will put a few drops of oil in the rails every 500 rounds or so.

And, the Army tests included stopping to let the gun cool and do a cleaning and oiling every hundred rounds. It's not like they fired 6,000 rounds without any sort of attention given.

Based on the short recoil principle of operation, the John M. Browning design for the US Military pistol trials was a magazine fed, single action semi-automatic pistol with both manual and grip safeties that demonstrated a level of durability, simplicity and reliability that no other pistol design of the era could match. In fact, during a 6,000 round test fired over two days in 1910 that was personally supervised by John M. Browning, his sample pistol became so hot that it was simply dunked in a pail of water to cool it for further firing. Browning’s sample reportedly passed the test with no malfunctions.

http://www.browning.com/library/infonews/detail.asp?id=301

 

[EddieNFL]

How many 1911 owners here have fired 6000+ rds without a single failure?.

With multiple 1911s.

How many of you think that your 1911 could fire that many rounds in a couple of days without any cleaning or maintenance?

Probably (see Tuner's response), but why would I? I've never drained the synthetic oil and started my engine just to see how long it would run, either.

 

[1911Tuner]

triplebike...The pistol wasn;t dunked in water every time it was cooled...and they did field-strip for a cursory cleaning and a little oil.

 

[triplebike]

triplebike...The pistol wasn;t dunked in water every time it was cooled...and they did field-strip for a cursory cleaning and a little oil.

I'm just trying to understand why in 1910 the gun was ultra reliable & yet over 100 years later most 1911's would not be able to stand up to that sort of test. Is it that they were made better then (basically hand made) than today, or is it that there's just too many hands messing with it?


Found what you said. still pretty impressive.

Browning was determined to prove the superiority of his handgun, so he went to Hartford to personally supervise the production of the gun. There he met Fred Moore, a young Colt employee with whom he worked in close cooperation trying to make sure that each part that was produced for the test guns was simply the best possible. The guns produced were submitted again for evaluation, to the committee. A torture test was conducted, on March 3rd, 1911. The test consisted of having each gun fire 6000 rounds. One hundred shots would be fired and the pistol would be allowed to cool for 5 minutes. After every 1000 rounds, the pistol would be cleaned and oiled. After firing those 6000 rounds, the pistol would be tested with deformed cartridges, some seated too deeply, some not seated enough, etc. The gun would then be rusted in acid or submerged in sand and mud and some more tests would then be conducted.

 

[Jason_G]

I'm just trying to understand why in 1910 the gun was ultra reliable & yet over 100 years later most 1911's would not be able to stand up to that sort of test. Is it that they were made better then (basically hand made) than today, or is it that there's just too many hands messing with it?
triplebike is online now

The 1911 platform is no longer made by just one manufacturer. Some manufacturers put out junk. Some put out target oriented pistols that need to be run dripping wet with oil, and some put out combat/defensive handguns that will run like a top all day long. How can you possibly expect uniform function in these circumstances?

Jason

 

[1911Tuner]

The 1911 platform is no longer made by just one manufacturer.

Neither was it for any of the military contracts. In WW2, there were five. The difference was that they were built to spec, and every part was checked during each step of the production and assembly process with standardized gauges. Sadly, this no longer applies. Everybody and his uncle has jumped into the market, trying to get a piece of the 1911 pie, and many of them seem to make it up as they go.

One of the tests during the WW2 production was for two pistols to be randomly chosen from each of the contractors...the pistols disassembled and tha parts tossed into a box.

The armorers then assembled 10 pistols without attention to parts selection, and the completed pistols were then tested for function, accuracy, and reliability. They all passed.

Today, most of the manufacturers understand that they're essentially producing a toy...or a pistol "Just like the one my daddy carried when he went ashore at Tarawa" and they know that the majority of them will probably never see more than 50 rounds a year...or in a lifetime...so they don't have to be as reliable under adverse conditions as their military forebears. Men aren't going to drag them through the trenches or the sand and depend on them to save their lives.

I recently had a conversation with a pistolsmith who worked for a time for a well-known 1911 clone producer. I won't call any names...but these are his words, verbatim.

"Johnny...Honestly, I can't get'em to hear me. They're building these pistols with a maximum of about 1,000 rounds in mind because they know, and have stated that the average buyer won't shoot one much more than that in 10 years."

His words. True story.

 

[rellascout]

"Johnny...Honestly, I can't get'em to hear me. They're building these pistols with a maximum of about 1,000 rounds in mind because they know, and have stated that the average buyer won't shoot one much more than that in 10 years."

I state this here and everywhere anyone will listen because it is true.....

 

[ExMachina]

I'm just trying to understand why in 1910 the gun was ultra reliable & yet over 100 years later most 1911's would not be able to stand up to that sort of test. Is it that they were made better then (basically hand made) than today, or is it that there's just too many hands messing with it?

going to wager that most of the answer lies in the increasing demand for accuracy out of the M1911 design. "custom" 1911s have always been about tightening the tolerances of the rails and bbl bushing to maximize the accuracy potential of the 1911's sight radius and fantastic trigger design. a properly-made, "loose" 1911 can be every bit as reliable as your favorite polymer gun.

 

[1911Tuner]

rella...I've been saying it since before there was a THR, but this was the first confirmation of it.

 

[rellascout]

rella...I've been saying it since before there was a THR, but this was the first confirmation of it.

I am glad but at the same time sort of depressed to hear it confirmed. It has always been my assumption based on what I have seen with my own eyes.

 

[EddieNFL]

"Johnny...Honestly, I can't get'em to hear me. They're building these pistols with a maximum of about 1,000 rounds in mind because they know, and have stated that the average buyer won't shoot one much more than that in 10 years."

Bet I could narrow it down to three names...probably two. And it probably applies to other makers, as well.

Farm out the (insert reputable name here) to a dozen different makers with no specifications and see what the reputation is in five years.

 

[Zach S]

I have a Series I Kimber that I bought from a buddy for $500. I decided I was just going to shoot it and lube till it jammed, since I had been told, by several folks, that it would happen.

At the 5k mark, with zero malfunctions, I decided my little experiment was complete and decided to detail strip it and clean it. After two or three cans of brake cleaner and lots of scrubbing, I decided to have it bead blasted. So I went to the gunsmith, told him what was going on, and he offered to let me blast it myself so I could have it back that day.

So, IMO, no cleaning, no problem. But if "no maintenance" means "no oil," I wouldn't put my money on it, or any other firearm for that matter.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

My first 1911 was a colt commercial circa 1951. It had been accurized by someone that knew what they were doing. It would feed and eject empties from the magazine. I shot that thing with mostly reloads for over 10 years. I never had a single malfunction and I do not recall cleaning it or oiling it except for the outside. It was used when I bought it. I easily put 5k rounds thru it before selling it.

 

[Jason_G]

Neither was it for any of the military contracts. In WW2, there were five. The difference was that they were built to spec, and every part was checked during each step of the production and assembly process with standardized gauges. Sadly, this no longer applies.

Yes, you are absolutely right, and that's really what I meant, but I misspoke, trying to put emphasis on the fact that there is no longer a specific set of specs that they all build to, and each manufacturer today is sort of "doing their own thing". Thanks for correcting that.

Jason

 

[Zerodefect]

How many 1911 owners here have fired 6000+ rds without a single failure? How many of you think that your 1911 could fire that many rounds in a couple of days without any cleaning or maintenance?

Honest replies without any BS would be greatly appreciated.

6000 rounds with no failure is easy to hit. My Kimber (modified for reliability) has hit that. I have no doubt my Dan Wesson Valor will get to that number soon. It's past 3000 now without a single failure (Wilson and Tripp magazines) I'll be taking some 3 day classes with the DW this fall or next spring.

Now, 6000 rounds with no cleaning or maintenance is a different story. I'll probally never test that. Only my carbines would see something like that, and they get lubed as often as possible. It's not unusual for me to spray a little CLP on my weapons between rounds at a class if they start to feel dry.

6000 is allmost an unrealistic goal:
1.) My 1911 only has to be 100% reliable for 7-27 rounds tops. After that I'll be throwing it at my enemy since it's empty.

2.) Most advanced 3 day classes still only require less than 3000 rounds.

3.) I'm cleaning my gun in the hotel shower after each day of class. I want my gun to be reliable so I can concentrate on class. I have dummy rounds and Wolf ammo if the class is too easy and I want to challenge my self with some failure drills. I also prefer that my gun isn't so dirty that it ruins my wardrobe, ruins my instructors hat, and shoots brass so dirty it leaves black marks on the girls chest 3 lanes down. (My Kimber has the external extractor, well know for ejecting heat seaking brass 30+feet away)


4.) Dry=abuse in my mind. I'll oil as needed, but usually it isn't needed since I use heavy lubes during classes and clean after each day while singing showtunes in the hotel shower..

5.) Is my 1911 even designed to run with more than 3000 rounds worth of grit inside it? Is this really something I'd want to have? Would I be willing to give up my tight perfectly smooth slide/frame fit for this?

 

[Ankeny]

I have gone close to, if not over 1000 rounds with a couple of 1911s without any cleaning (but I did add oil) while preparing for SC matches. But I generally clean and lube after every session. I had a Les Baer go over 30,000 rounds without any malfunctions other than a couple of malfs resulting from some pretty crappy reloads. My current 2011 open gun has over 40,000 rounds and the only malfunctions have been a primer seated backwards, and a FTF that resulted from the gun hitting the top of a port.

 

[MCMXI]

What is this obsession with high round counts without cleaning? What does it prove?

I prefer to test the function and reliability of a 1911 using a variety of magazines and ammunition. That's far more relevant and meaningful to me. I have no desire to own a firearm that only functions well with one load and one type of magazine. I took a brand new Ed Brown to the range yesterday and shot 230gr FMJ, 200gr LRNFP and 185gr LSWC using seven magazines with different capacities, followers and feed lips. 200 rounds without a single failure or issue of any kind was a more practical test of the pistol's potential for reliability. Needless to say, I was happy and impressed with the performance.

I would mention that my Kimber is incredibly reliable (2,500+ rounds without failure) shooting 230gr FMJ, 200gr LRNFP or 185gr LSWC (loaded to 1.150" OAL) but I clean it after every match or range session so I guess it doesn't count.