Your 1911 reliability

[1911Tuner]

What is this obsession with high round counts without cleaning? What does it prove?

That the gun is reliable under less than ideal conditions. It naturally follows that if the gun will run when it's dry and dirty, it'll run when it's clean and oiled. It's a good way to prove the gun and become confident with it, but that's about all.

 

[MCMXI]

That the gun is reliable under less than ideal conditions. It naturally follows that if the gun will run when it's dry and dirty, it'll run when it's clean and oiled. It's a good way to prove the gun and become confident with it, but that's about all.

I guess I don't need to shoot 6,000 rounds through a firearm without cleaning to be confident that it'll work when I need it to. I'm more concerned with testing the function and reliability with variables I can't control rather than ones I can.

 

[918v]

I dunno how many rounds I have fired through my several 1911's, but none of them ever hiccuped, ever. But then again my ammo is perfect.

 

[Usertag]

What I can say is that under military specs. The 1911 is supposed to shoot 8000:1. So your 6000 question is plausible.

 

[RunningHorse]

Several of my 1911's have exceeded that number with few if any problems. I have one old CII with well over 100k rounds on it (although many spring replacements, etc....) it has been very reliable.

Most I've shot without cleaning is 1500 rounds (any of mine do this easily and I don't even give it a second thought).

I have no plans to run over 2000 through any of mine without a boresnake and a little oil. Just my own thoughts on that.

Have run over 5k rounds with just boresnaking and a little lube though (although she's pretty scuzzy by then...)

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

My Colt Government model has had exactly one FTF in around 1k rounds by me, and that, I am 100% sure was an out of spec reload. (not counting rounds fired underwater, of which about 50% fed correctly)

The gun is 21 years old so im certain it had a thurough breaking in before I got hold of it!

 

[Onmilo]

I never kept a round count but the bottom gun has been rebuilt three times in the thirty or so years it has been around and fired at least 1000 rounds every year.
I can't remember the exact number of failures but it isn't many, probably less than fifty,,,in thirty thousand rounds and that counts them all, including ammunition related failures.

 

[1911Tuner]

I guess I don't need to shoot 6,000 rounds through a firearm without cleaning to be confident that it'll work when I need it to.

Me either. I think that a lot if it started because of the US Army's torture tests. Everybody wonders whether or not their pistol will stand up to the same abuse that the 1911 did back in the day.

 

[jmr40]

I'm more concerned with testing the function and reliability with variables I can't control rather than ones I can.

For a gun only used at the range you can control that varible. In the real world, where people depend on their guns to save their lives they are often called upon to work after being exposed to less than ideal conditions. I may never need my gun to work when filthy, but it is comforting to know it will still perform .

 

[1911Tuner]

In the real world, where people depend on their guns to save their lives they are often called upon to work after being exposed to less than ideal conditions. I may never need my gun to work when filthy, but it is comforting to know it will still perform .

And that was precisely the reason for the US Army's extensive torture testing. They want to know that the pistol would remain functional under the worst conditions that they were likely to be used under.

 

[Slamfire]

What is this obsession with high round counts without cleaning? What does it prove?

That the gun is reliable under less than ideal conditions. It naturally follows that if the gun will run when it's dry and dirty, it'll run when it's clean and oiled. It's a good way to prove the gun and become confident with it, but that's about all.

There are sand, dust, hot, cold, rain tests that are far better at showing reliability under less than ideal conditions. Mil Std 810 has these tests.

A M1911 is a piece of machinery. I keep them clean and lubricated. After shooting, I clean them and lubricate them before putting them away.

I am not going to expose any of my guns to additional wear by leaving them dirty.

 

[CDW4ME]

I don't have any intention of shooting more than about 100 rounds without cleaning, no B.S.

My current 1911's are basically new. I've only got about 400 rounds through any one of them.
No jams except 3 that were caused by a weak magazine spring; I had used that same magazine in previous pistols, could have seen 1,500 rounds through it, and it had been kept fully loaded for about a year.

I clean any pistol after any shooting session, even if it's a couple of magazines then done.

In the real world this seems realistic to me. I carry 7 + 1 in my 1911, plus a extra 7 round magazine. So, if I'm out running errands, dinner, ect... I "only" have 15 rounds available for the primary pistol.

If my home is attacked by homicidal mobs of rioting looters or zombies (about equally likely to happen considering I live in a rural area) then I don't have to rely on that single 1911 running for hundreds of rounds without cleaning, I'll just pick up a Glock, then another Glock I'm not limited to one pistol here.

BTY: 1911 reliability is magazine dependent IME and Tripp (Cobra) magazines and magazine replacement kits work in all of mine; plus, I can get flush fitting, no unwanted base sticking out.

 

[1911Tuner]

There are sand, dust, hot, cold, rain tests that are far better at showing reliability under less than ideal conditions.

There was more to the military trials than just proving functional reliability. It was also geared toward proving the pistol's durability under hard, prolonged use. It would mean little if the gun beat itself into an unserviceable condition in a thousand rounds, no matter how reliable it was up to that point.

The Army Ordnance Board, in its final report, stated:

"Of the two, the Colt is the more accurate...the more reliable...and the more enduring."

Another criteria was the pistol's ease of maintenance and serviceability in the field, when an armorer wasn't available. One of the main things that pushed the Colt ahead of the Savage was the ability to detail strip the gun without having to resort to special tools...and using the gun's parts to accomplish that with. The 1911 pistol was literally its own tool box.

 

[The Bushmaster]

I'm not sure, but let me think back...Nooo...I have never had to burn up 6,000 rounds in any firefight or selfdefence situation. I do have a Colt 1911 (circa 1990) that has been fired enough times [without failure] to equal over 6,000 rounds and is on it's second barrel though. I also have a Kimber that I carry that has around 3,000 rounds through it without failure.

 

[1911Tuner]

I'm not sure, but let me think back...Nooo...I have never had to burn up 6,000 rounds in any firefight or selfdefence situation.

Well...As to that, most shootings involving private citizens are concluded with 3-5 rounds in about as many seconds. So, I guess if the gun will rip off 6 rounds rapid fire, it's good to go.

 

[Rinspeed]

What is this obsession with high round counts without cleaning? What does it prove?

It's the only way to prove you're not too bright.

 

[918v]

I have never had to burn up 6,000 rounds in any firefight or selfdefence situation.

But you don't suffer from paranoid delusions of armageddon either.

 

[Steve C]

To give you some idea of the expected reliability of a typical standard military model 1911 one can look to the determination of pistol reliability required by the military in their tests for a new handgun to replace the 1911.

To determine acceptable handgun reliability standards for the contract the Army took 10 pristine 1911's from the armory and tested them. The mean time to failure was an average of around 600 rounds so that is where they set the standard for the new pistol as that was deemed satisfactory performance for a military handgun.

They quit trying to find the MTF for the Beretta and Sig after both went 5K rounds w/o any stoppage.

 

[Bigphil54]

I'm the first in my family that is a gun nut so they didn't pay much attention to the reliability of our colt M1911A1 built in the mid 50's but from my couple hundred rounds out of it I have only shot FMJ bullets and about 30 SWC's. It hated the SWC's. Every other round jamed. But I have had good expirience with the FMJ's. I think it is because the bulets were not crimped and it caused it to catch on the case as it was loaded. The only problem with the gun I have noticed is that it needs a new recoil spring but gettin my dad to get around to ordering one is a pain.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

To determine acceptable handgun reliability standards for the contract the Army took 10 pristine 1911's from the armory and tested them.

There was no such thing as a pristine 1911 in any Army armory by the time they started tests to replace them.

 

[1911Tuner]

There was no such thing as a pristine 1911 in any Army armory by the time they started tests to replace them.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Here's an original August 1945 production Remington Rand. This picture was taken about 3 years ago on my kitchen table. It presently resides in East Tennessee after a collector/friend threatened suicide if I refused to let him make it his own.

 

[MCMXI]

For a gun only used at the range you can control that varible. In the real world, where people depend on their guns to save their lives they are often called upon to work after being exposed to less than ideal conditions. I may never need my gun to work when filthy, but it is comforting to know it will still perform .

I've yet to meet any Marine or Army personnel (and I know and shoot with MANY) that have served in Iraq/Afghanistan who conducted "how many rounds without cleaning or maintenance" tests while they were over there ... they don't have that luxury. Every one of them was religious about weapon maintenance and for good reason. I have met a few that were so far away from the action that they weren't even issued a firearm but they're in the minority!

As a civilian, it's highly unlikely that any of us will encounter environmental conditions worse than the Middle East. It's far more likely that we'll be trying to grip a handgun or rifle while it's covered in blood ... OURS!! I'd rather cover my 1911s in pig's blood and see if I can rack the slide or test the effectiveness of the checkering on the front strap or grips. To me, that's far more meaningful than 6,000 rounds without cleaning. As I said earlier, cleaning and maintenance is easy to control. Variables that aren't easy to control include blood, sweat, oil or other lubricants on the weapon along with magazines or ammunition from unknown sources. The magazine or ammunition issue is unlikely, but in the event of an extended encounter (post apocalyptic scenario du jour!) it may be necessary to use magazines or ammunition that are unproven. How many times have we heard 1911 owners state that "once they bought magazines from x, y or z, their 1911 ran perfectly" or "my 1911 shoots x load 100% reliably but won't feed y or z loads"?

As I mentioned earlier, I shot my new Ed Brown last Friday using seven different magazines and three types of ammunition including a 185gr LSWC. 200 rounds without a single problem was a good start. If I can repeat that test successfully five or six more times (with cleaning at the end of each session) then I'll really have confidence in that particular 1911.

 

[Onmilo]

I saw, with my own eyes, a stack of at least a dozen brand new Service issue 1911A1 pistols still in original packing in a Special Forces Arms Room located @ Ft. Bragg North Carolina and this was in 1984.

In an earlier thread concerning the M15 General Officers handgun I remarked that not all of these guns had been issued when the M9 was fully adopted and they were consequently rumored destroyed under Clintons purge of excess military weaponry.
That would have been sometime around 1992, right after Gulf War One and I know quite a few new to as new 1911A1 pistols were issued out for that little get together.

 

[ExecutiveCarry]

Well .... 1858, I couldn't have said it any better. (page #1) You have taken the words right out of my mouth (post).
I enjoy shooting, studying and being involved with pistols as a hobby. I don't keep exact round counts that I've fired, although to date, my Ed Brown has been perfect. Interesting, as I have a Kimber Ultra Raptor on the way ..... so l believe that the 3" 1911 will be a different story altogether. Wilson Comabat mags have been ordered to assist with any Ultra 1911 feeding issues .... ;-)

 

[tnek13]

My Kimber needed to have the barrel side edges honed as rounds hung every once in a while. That was over 10 years ago and since then there have been Zero Gun related failures that I can remember. But no to the question , I do not think that it would go 6,000 rounds without cleaning. tolerances too tight and I do not abuse my guns. Has my Kimber gone 6,000 rounds - yes, but it gets cleaned after every range session.