How many times have you heard this?

I have no experience with HiPoint so I won't go there .....
But I will say one thing about Rossi. About 25 years ago when I lived in Connecticut I was examining one of their repros of the Winchester 1892 (a design I've always liked). The interior of the firearm looked like it had been carved out by a drunken gorilla with a broken chisel. I did not -- would not -- buy a rifle like that.
Well, just about a month ago I did buy a Rossi R92. Sixteen inch barrel, in .45 Colt. The interior of this rifle is well-made and the lever action is as good as the best of my other lever actions. Rossi has, IMHO, really upped the quality of their work, and yet have maintained a good price; I think they are really good deals for people who don't need the expensive but fantastically made Mirokus.
I also have a Rossi .38 snubbie which is a decent if not spectacular revolver.
I no longer disdain Rossis (or Taurus) but I do think that they are not top rate guns.
They ARE good guns, just not finely made; but they will get the job done, for sure.

Oh don't buy HiPoint it's junk.

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I wouldn't own a HiPoint even if they were of the quality of a SIG P-210.

HiPoints don't do anything I want done, in any way in which I want it done.

The laws of physics make a pure blowback 9x19mm or .45acp handgun, especially one executed in the manner of the HiPoint, utterly worthless to me.

taliv said:

Some people are blessed with the ability to learn from the mistakes of others.

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...and some people jump on the bandwagon with both feet after reading one internet post. Not really much of a blessing.

Years ago(45 to be exact) I bought a Mossberg .22 semi-auto rifle. Had beautiful furniture and was accurate as all get out. Problem was it jammed continuously. Turned me off to Mossberg for quite a while. Then bought a model 500 for a cheap turkey gun. Has been a trooper for 35 years with probably at least 50 beards to it's credit. Bought a Rossi stagecoach gun with outside hammers back in the 70s when they were distributed by Garcia. It is still my go to grouse and woodcock gun. Bought another in the mid-eighties without the outside hammers and it sits in my gunsafe with less than two boxes of shells thru it. I too looke long and hard at handgun caliber carbines. Finally broke down and took a chance on a stainless Rossi 20'' .357. Had to change the front sight($16) but it is a tackdriver and has gotten nuttin' but smoother with use. My boys and I, along with friends probably have 10,000 rounds thru it. It's a fun lil' gun. I do have Marlin and Ruger handgun caliber carbines as well.

Inexpensive doesn't always mean cheap. Even S&W and Ruger put out a few lemons. Do your research, look the firearm over well in person, consider the warranty and feedback from customer service. Funny, I think sometimes S&W gets more internet bashing than Taurus or Hi-Point, but still it's hard to find a new Smith on the shelves of my LGS because of continued demand. The internet is a great source of info, but it is not always correct. Far too many folks like to wave their hi-priced customs and claim anything that cost less is junk and other folks that don't agree are just jealous of their wealth. Yeah, right. Many folks do not have a unlimited supply of expendable income to spend on firearms, but still need and want them. Some folks just don't want to spend big -bucks for something they seldom use. In the case of me and the little Rossi carbine, I took a chance and found a treasure. But I researched the investment first and weighed my options. Folks should do that for every firearm they buy, regardless of list price.

bugsbunny45 said:

Is it just me or do some companies get really bad press for no good reason.

Kinda funny when you hear this many times the people never owned or shot the stuff they are telling you about.

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How about when the people HAVE actually owned and/or shot the stuff they're talking about?

Could that possibly be a big part of the reason that some companies get really bad press?

taliv said:

Some people are blessed with the ability to learn from the mistakes of others.

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Yep.

Good, then you won't have any problem not buying one.

The elegance of what Hi-Point has done is squeeze every bit of cost out of a simple rugged design, and put it out there at an unmatched price with a lifetime warranty.

Heh, I have Taurus, Rossi, Hi Point, Charter & Lee. I have S&W, Colt, & Beretta & others that some consider as top-tier. Ya know what? QA issues arise in ALL makes. It's just a matter of percentages.

Personally, I'd never had any real issues with any of the second/third tier brands, except for one Taurus 1911. There can be tens of thousands of satisfied owners for a particular make/model who never say a thing. A single malfunctioning firearm will have its owner post to numerous forums & tell friends/family.

Is it just me or do some companies get really bad press for no good reason.

Don't buy Rossi or Tarus stuff it's cheap Brazilian stuff.

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It's a matter of standards. You say there's no good reason for bad press, but in the case of Taurus years of anecdotal reports of shoddy QC, non-functioning safety mechanisms, and a lot of food-dragging ahead of recalling 100,000 firearms are strong indicators of a company turning out a reliable product, and the treatment in the gun press/forums is well warranted and fair.

Based on my personal experience Taurus has a well deserved reputation for spotty quality control with their revolvers. With their semi-autos there are few.complaints. When debugged Taurus revolvers are very nice guns.

They're product snobs in all fields.

Sometimes it's justified, sometimes its not.

I feel that many hold grudges against products they've had trouble with. Someone may have gotten a bad Taurus in 1987 and cuss them to this day without every buying another one. I've seen posters on here bash Kia cars as being trash long past the days when they were crappy cars. Today Kia is a very well made car yet I've seen several here bad mouth them to this day. They are clueless as to present day quality in items they had issues with 10 or 20 years ago. Kimber has been bashed by many for years now yet they continue to sell more 1911s than any other company. Taurus and Hi Point continue to sell a lot of guns so I guess the internet bashing doesn't affect them much. The same with Kimber and other companies that get bashed on the net.

There are truly bad guns out there but they seem to be limited (in the bigger companies) to lemons in the models and not the entire company. Every company produces lemons. It's how the companies handle the problems that determine the success of a company.

Some years back I bought a Stoeger Condor O/U 20 gauge for my son. I have heard a lot of trash talk on Stoeger. BUT, none of the trash talk has played out. That gun has taken pheasant, turkey, quail, and hundreds of clay pigeons without a single hiccup or even a misfire, often outshooting others with guns costing five time more.

I have a Taurus Millenium G2 9mm that has been flawless, very accurate, good shooting pistol.

I bought a Hi-Point 40 carbine for $300 out the door, very accurate, 100% reliable and alot of fun.

I've loaded close to 20,000 rounds on my Lee 4 hole turret press, not the classic. Its still running just fine.

Almost all of my reloading gear is from Lee and I owned a HiPoint carbine for several years. I have nothing negative to say about either of those outfits. In fact, Lee gets the highest of marks from me. HiPoint is just fine, but asside for affordability, they dont really stand out.

I have 3 Rossi rifles, All 45 LC. Use them in cowboy shooting. 20" round, 20" and 24" octagon. Never had a single issue from out of box to now.
Also like mt Taurus 1911, use it in 3 gun shoots in the area.
Had a hi point carbine 9mm. No issues.
Guess it is opinions. The reviews I read before hand didn't show any faults.

Someone once said "you pay your money, you take your chances", or words to that effect. I have many times heeded that advice and like others here I try to learn from others experiences with different gun manufacturers. I don't own any Hi-Point products, not because I think they're defective or low budget, just that they don't make anything that interests me. In the case of Taurus and Rossi I have had a number of their guns and have found them to be well made, reliable, and a good deal for the money.

I buy for more reasons than just "pull trigger, go bang".
Part of my fascination with firearms, particularly older firearms,
Is the mechanical genius involved. I like finely fitted firearms, excellent designs, nice finishes, historical importance, and innovation. Its the craftsmanship and quality that really appeals to me.

Hi point is fine if you are looking for something that goes bang.
Lee is fine if you are looking for something purely functional to make ammo.
I am looking for more though, and I have found that what I am looking for, rarely occurs in the lower priced or budget options.

You say this like it's a bad thing, but it is what I have aspired to all my life.

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I've been studying firearms since I was in the fifth grade.

My HiPoint example is a perfect example of what you're saying.

The UNAVOIDABLE design trade-offs in a pure blowback firearm chambered for something more powerful than 9x18mm make it worthless to me, other than as a collector's item. People collect 9x19mm Dreyse and Walther blowbacks. Nobody "collects" HiPoints.

I can't look at those Dreyses and Walthers and have ANY expectation that the HiPoint is going to somehow sidestep the laws of physics which they couldn't.

I try to learn from the mistakes of others, not blithely repeat them.

The elegance of what Hi-Point has done is squeeze every bit of cost out of a simple rugged design, and put it out there at an unmatched price with a lifetime warranty.

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However a lot of people have different/higher expectations from a handgun.

If I'm hauling machine parts, lumber, or bachelorette parties, it doesn't matter how cheap a Ford Focus is, it's not going to get the job done in any way that would satisfy those needs in any reasonable way.

Any handgun I buy is going to be used for:

• bullseye target shooting
• self-defense AND concealed carry
• collecting

In no reasonable way does a HiPoint meet those needs.

I have guns made by Charter Arms and Taurus, as well as by Colt, Browning, S&W, Sig, etc. and I have never noticed any difference in quality or reliability. All my reloading equipment is made by Lee. If a gun fills a purpose and works then it's a keeper, regardless of the name. Same with my carpentry tools.

Tinpig

Some things you've just gotta take with a grain of salt.

I hear lots of people putting down Remington .22 LR Golden Bullets, for example.

Yet my family and I aren't having any problems with them to speak of in terms of accuracy and reliability.

As far as Taurus in concerned they have a hard won well deserved bad reputation.

taliv said:

I'm not going to argue your examples are good or bad but your logic is faulty. It's like saying "I've never done crack so I'm not qualified to say it's good or bad. I really have to spend some time doing crack in order to know whether it's good or bad. "

Some people are blessed with the ability to learn from the mistakes of others.

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Ohhhh my God. This is so funny because it's so true. This should be like the post of the year or something. So I'm one of those guys who says don't buy...insert name of junk firearm here....pretty often.

Some of it comes from hard earned experience, ether of myself or others I know first hand. Some of it is just common sense.

I learned to reload on a Lee Single stage press. It did what it's made to do: teach someone how to reload at a low cost point of entry. It's not long and you're ready to move on to a more capable, higher quality unit. So I say, just buy that higher quality unit first and save yourself a hundred bucks over the long run. Don't buy a Lee press.

I wouldn't own a Taurus again, even though the ONE Taurus I owned (PT99) was a great gun. I got lucky. I know wayyyyy too many others who got unlucky with Taurus. Buying a Taurus is like rolling the dice. No thanks.

Not buying Hi-Point (or any of the Asian made imports) SHOULD be common sense for EVERYONE. THOSE are the companies I can't figure out how they stay in business. By now, the entire planet should know that Third World Poop Hole countries can't be trusted with quality manufacturing.

In the end, I believe most of the people who buy these imported, budget priced guns do so solely due to the price point. They're willing to forego fit, finish, quality, and overall longevity for a cheap product today. Now. (It's our culutre of demanding cheap, disposable goods in general.) They're not looking decades down the road. I find that to be a false economy.

I've made less than 8 grand a year for the last 5 years, but I don't own or buy any of the above, budgetary guns. It actually costs MORE to buy a cheap gun (or any product really) that will need repairs or replacement in the next 10 years, than to spend a little more money and buy quality right up front and then use that product for decades.

That said, I also don't own any of those Miroku guns, which I denigrate the poop out of solely because they're not made in New Haven. However, I recognize that they are finely made, high quality guns that will be serving their owners' families for generations after the initial purchaser is gone from this world. (And to me THAT is the measure of a gun-or any tool.)