The P320: your gun handling skills are the problem

Mine has been submitted. Hopefully turn around time is prompt.

The 320 fits my hand like a glove. I'm going to miss 'er while she's gone.

Human error. Nobody's perfect. Stuff happens.

Car companies have recalls all the time, some related to safety. I don't see this as a big deal.

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It is a big deal.

It is a safety issue. Both with cars and firearms. With millions of them in circulation, anything that can possibly go wrong with them and can harm a person should be taken seriously.

For example, my parents both have Honda's which were affected by the airbag recall. I can tell you that it is quite an inconvenience to have both vehicles sent back to the dealer to fix the issue. I will not go into the details, but it took a few weeks for each vehicle to be fixed. And yes, people have been killed by the defective airbags.

One more thing to consider: Is Sig going to provide you with a loaner pistol while yours is being repaired???

Got our Honda fixed in a couple hours with the airbag recall.

One more thing to consider: Is Sig going to provide you with a loaner pistol while yours is being repaired???

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That will never happen from any manufacturer. Talk about a maze of logistics for that!! Even if it could be done legally, which I would question. And every state has different laws. Wow, that would really be a mess.

NYET! GUN IS FINE! USER WRONG!

It is a big deal.

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You don't own a P320 so why is it a big deal to you? I own two and yet I don't think it's a big deal. So far there has been one reported injury (which may or may not be due to a dropped 320) and no reported deaths despite 500,000+ pistols in circulation. If I were a lawyer or bean counter at SIG I'd be quite pleased with how things are going at this point because they could be a whole lost worse. The $560M contract is still in place and there's only one significant lawsuit that will most likely be settled for considerably less than $7M.

justice06rr said:

One more thing to consider: Is Sig going to provide you with a loaner pistol while yours is being repaired???

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I would not expect them to.
If I have a gun with a gunsmith I don't expect him to provide me with a "loaner" gun while he has it.
It's good to have more than one gun.

tipoc said:

I would not expect them to.
If I have a gun with a gunsmith I don't expect him to provide me with a "loaner" gun while he has it.
It's good to have more than one gun.

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Which is a strike against modularity if you think about it.

I've always thought that for the average gun owner, modularity is not that important and is if more value to an agency supplying firearms to a changing and diverse group of users. Just MO.

Not sure if posted before, but I alluded to it in a previous post:

Chris Bartocci: The Failure of the XM17 Modular Handgun Program. The Army doesn't know which pistol is better because testing was never completed.



M

Actually all the testing that was needed was completed according to the GAO. The above link from the firearms blog misreads the requirements of the proposals. There was no requirement for a third round of testing. That also would have added expense to an already overly expense enterprise.

Tirod wrote:
As the ongoing hysteria of the "issue" with the P320 is debated over the internet, lets not forget that one significant thing needs to happen to get the gun to discharge: you, the operator of that mechanism, have to fumble it, badly, and make it happen.

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Or in the case of a police officer, you have a suspect try to take the weapon away from you and it gets dropped in the ensuing struggle.

The Houston, Texas, police department conducted its own drop tests of the P320 and experienced a discharge rate of 10%. This is not a case of hysterics or negligent handling, it is a genuine problem with the mechanism which the manufacturer has already admitted to.

tipoc said:

Actually all the testing that was needed was completed according to the GAO. The above link from the firearms blog misreads the requirements of the proposals. There was no requirement for a third round of testing. That also would have added expense to an already overly expense enterprise.

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Apparently their drop testing failed to detect any problem. I call that inadequate. Care to address the other points he makes?

M

I hope my comment fits within the thread. I'm a pretty pedestrian shooter compared to some on these forums. Honestly, the handguns I most enjoy acquiring and shooting are single-action revolvers. There was a time I was more into double-action revolvers and I have always had some semi-autos but they have not been my focus and in the beginning they were DA/SA or DAO hammer-fired semi-autos and eventually SA hammer-fired autos, i.e., the Browning Hi-Power. To make a long story a bit shorter, I recently decided I needed to to consider ceasing running against the wind and take a closer look at the benefits of modern striker-fired autos. I have owned them in the past but never kept one. Looking at a lot of history, information, reviews, schematics, guns at the store, etc. etc. I gradually came to believe at this point I am more comfortable with a striker that is not fully or 98% pre-cocked. That might change because I used to be queasy about cocked and locked, too. But, for now that's how I feel. That took some nice pistols off the top of my list, including the Smith and Wesson, the new Ruger American( which I really like), and the Sig 320. Looking at everything from design, to track record, to safety, to durability, to parts availability, etc, etc., I decided that the granddaddy of them all is still the best overall choice for me and that meant the Glock 17/19. I bought a Glock 19 Gen 4 right Just before this tempest erupted. I am not a Glock fanboy but I am happy with my choice and very pleased with the pistol and quite confident that it will not go off unintended if I don't pull the trigger. I hope Sig gets it squared away because I do have a couple Sig pistols and like them very much.

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I absolutely hate the new format/program whatever of this forum. Now it doesn't do the same thing twice. I give up. Don't know how to handle "unspecified errors". Not worth trying.

Love the forum since 2002. Hate the new format since it started.

M1key said:

Chris Bartocci: The Failure of the XM17 Modular Handgun Program. The Army doesn't know which pistol is better because testing was never completed.

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On one hand, a random person posting a YouTube video on the internet with very limited information;
On the other hand, the U.S. Government Accountability Office publishing a written opinion based on all available information.
People will have to choose which to believe.

Border Patrol Instructor friend just this past weekend says they are pulling the Sigs based on their own testing. Says it's an inertia issue that overrides the thumb safety. They are able to duplicate the problem that the GAO testing failed to detect.

He has creds enough for me...

M

M1key said:

Border Patrol Instructor friend just this past weekend says they are pulling the Sigs based on their own testing.

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Bet the Border Patrol does not have the military M17 model.

M1key said:

They are able to duplicate the problem that the GAO testing failed to detect.

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Right ... since the GAO did no testing

Whoever did the testing failed to detect a problem.

M

Folks by now should be aware that the gun the Army adopted was a different variant of the 320 than those commercially sold. Sig is offering to replace the older internals on some of the commercial guns and those sold earlier, to the internals similar to what is in the guns the military adopted. The facts on that have been available for a few days now.