.22 mag handguns?

milemaker13 said:

What are the options available for a handgun in .22 WMR? Wife is considering CCW options. Pistol/revolver hasn't been nailed down yet, however I feel a revolver for simplicity would be better.
I have some other threads on the topic, but I wanted to ask specifically about .22 mag. She asked about carrying a .22 (LR), so I suggested perhaps .22 mag.
Also, how would .22 mag compare to say .25 , .32, .380 etc in terms of stopping power, reliability, and recoil?

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milemaker13 said:

I think the airweight would be perfect, but she doesn't like snubbies. I made it worse by having her shoot my little .38 snub. Couldn't hit paper at 10 yrds.

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Doesn't like snubbies? That makes it tough as a snub nose revolver is a perfect size for concealed carry.

As others have mentioned, a small frame rimfire revolver is going to have a much harder double action trigger pull than a large frame rimfire revolver or a even a small frame centerfire revolver.

From my limited research, .22 WMR muzzle velocity doesn't beat .22 LR by much until the barrel lengths reach 3" or longer. Since you mention .32 ACP, this cartridge is very close to .22 WMR energy levels out of short barrels. The .32 ACP has less flash and bang as well. Plus the .32 ACP has much less felt recoil than .380 ACP in a locked breech pistol.

So, some ideas here . . .

Kel-Tec P-32 in .32ACP. Small, light, low recoil, with decent power for what it is. Or a Taurus TCP732 if you happen to find one of these discontinued little unicorns.

Ruger LCRx .38 Special with 3" barrel. It has a longer barrel and longer grip than a true snub nose revolver. Use 148 grain wadcutter ammo for very low recoil soft shooting. Try the wadcutters in your own snub nose revolver to compare.

I don't recommend this at all, but a double action only 2-shot mouse gun in .22 WMR would be neat for the collection.

Hi-Standard Derringer .22 Magnum
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/hi-standard-derringer-22-magnum-pr37456/

I do not know if demand up there is the same as down here, but there are a lot of respectable 32ACPs going
cheap, at the pawn shops down here, as they are no longer in demand. Check out your local pawn shops.

I don't mean to sound harsh but is your wife really considering conceal carry or is it something you want her to do?

I own a Taurus M-941. It is very accurate with Speer Gold Dot Short barrel ammunition. I selected it because it hold 8 rounds instead of Ruger only having 6 rounds. I consider this gun equal to my 5 shot snubby .38.

With that said I agree with your wife and I no longer carry either snubby for self-defense. The features that make a snubby convenient for conceal carry also make it harder to shoot.

IMO you should reconsider your thoughts about making her carry a revolver because it is simpler. For several decades (like 35+ years) we tried to find a handgun my wife could shoot without it hurting her. She has weak hands and carpel tunnel and recently had rotator cuff surgery. She has always ruled out a semi-auto because she lacks the strength to pull the slide far enough back to chamber a round. The closest we have come is with a Colt Police Positive Special 38 Special with 4" barrel (which we still have by the way).

Last year we went to a Open House at a LGS. They had a lot of guns out to handle and associates on hand to help demonstrate and help customers. She looked at Glocks (ugh), Wathers, Rugers and a couple of other which I forget which she did not like (neither did I but this is about her choice). However when she picked up the S&W M&P 1.0 9mm she immediately said how comfortable it felt. When I explained to the associate that she could not rack the slide he taught her how to do it by holding slide and pushing the frame forward with her strong hand/arm. Then she tried the APEX Duty Trigger kit that had been installed and said "I like it." That sealed the sale.

We spent a lot of time on the range last year before winter came. She shoots the gun well and most importantly is becoming very proficient with loading and unloading it. I have made some dummy rounds and this year when we start shooting again I am going to sneak them in for practice with clearing malfunctions. She is really looking forward to shooting this year now that her shoulder will be pain free.

My wife has no interest in conceal carry...yet. (I carry so that is good enough). So the M&P with the 4.25" barrel suits her fine. 17 rounds is lot of self-confidence.

I am going to have get her conceal carry license soon so she is covered when we are in Oklahoma and Texas. Now that she has the ability and confidence to handle the M&P I am going to have us visit some LGS's and Gun Shows to handle smaller striker fired pistols.

Starting with a larger pistol is a little more expensive but makes more sense. A larger gun is much easier to learn on. Have her select a larger gun like the M&P 1.0 (wife likes the grip texture of 1.0 better than 2.0) and practice the technique of pushing the frame forward with her strong hand/arm instead of trying to pull the slide back.

When she is ready for conceal carry have her try the smaller S&W M&P series and single stack 9mm's semi-autos.

Just my experiences after 35 years of searching.

milemaker13 said:

Reading up on .32 cal, I see there are several different .32 cartridges. .32acp, .32 s&w, .32 long, .32 h&r magnum, .32 Colt, and a few others. Wow. I did not know all that.
So, when we talk about a modern .32 revolver... What are we taking about? I think most of the little .32 autos are obviously the .32acp, keltek for example.

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The 327 Ruger LCR can shoot 327 Federal Magnum, 32 H&R Magnum, 32 Smith and Wesson Long, 32 Smith and Wesson, and even 32 ACP, though it may not always properly extract the 32 ACP.

The 327 Federal Magnum is going to recoil too much and be too loud, but there is a decent chance she can handle the 32 S&W long and perhaps the 32 H&R Magnum after some practice. 32 H&R Magnum recoils noticeably less than 38 Special and 32 S&W long is significantly lower still yet.

If I had someone that was recoil adverse and was considering a 22 caliber handgun I would certainly have them try out the 32 S&W long before deciding. Best of luck and I hope she finds something that works.

The DA only rimfire trigger on the LCR snub was, to me, a bit heavy. The new model DA/SA LCRx 3" in .22 Mag seems a little better. My LGS has had a few for sale within the last month. I dry fired one with snap caps and the trigger seemed a little heavy, probably 10-12 pounds, but the available single action kind of makes it manageable compared to the the LCR. At 17.5 ounces and probably less than 20 when loaded it will probably sell well. I have an LCRx 3" in .38 Sp +P. I carry it on occasion but prefer my six shot Colt Detective Special. My LGS has a try before you buy program which I'll take advantage of.
https://ruger.com/products/lcrx/specSheets/5437.html

I'm still waiting for the 22 super mag

milemaker13

The wife of a good friend of mine wanted a CCW but didn't care for the Taurus Model 85 snubby or the S&W Bodyguard .380 her husband already had. I found her a S&W Model 638 with a 2 1/2" barrel and she did quite well with it, starting out with shooting light wadcutter loads. Gradually she worked her way up to being proficient with some hotter JHP loads and she qualified with those. I also got her a concealed carry purse with a hidden pocket and a holster that fits inside it.

I've seen this question asked so many times and I don't understand the fascination with .22 Mag for women or elderly people for self defense.

Firstly, I don't recommend .22 rimfire autoloading pistols at all. They just aren't reliable enough.

Mostly, for DA revolvers, .22 Mag is kept at 6 rounds in the cylinder, except Taurus who I think does 8 or 9 rounds. Unless you're looking at getting a Taurus in .22 Mag, don't bother with .22 Mag in a revolver. The power isn't that good, the trigger sucks, and the ammo is pricey and for good defense ammo is hard to find.

.22 LR is better for revolvers as they generally hold more rounds. Also, I've run into a lot more misfires with .22 Mag than .22 LR in revolvers. My guess is brass on the .22 Mag rim is just harder or thicker and requires are much harder strike to set it off than a rifle does.

For non .22, you have the .32 revolver and the .25 and .32 pistol. The .25 pistols are mostly very small and often have good single action triggers. This means she'll probably hit the target better, but the sights can be tough to see so she'll have to practice. .32 ACP pistols, unless they're older, are going to be DAO and if she doesn't like snub revolvers, she'll probably suck with DAO pistols. Something like the Colt 1903 or Walther PPK would be best if you want a .32 pistol. Not cheap options though.

By far, as I have often said, I think a .32 revolver is best if the person can shoot a revolver. .327 is best because you can buy a gun that with certain ammo it is very low recoil and more reliable and probably effective than a .22 Magnum, but you can also use the hot .327 for power if you have to use it.

Ammo for non .22's is going to be about the same: $14/50rds for .25, $14/50rds for .32 ACP, $16/50rds for .32 S&W Long, $1 per round for .32 H&R Mag or .327 hollow points.

If she can't do a double action revolver, then look at .25 or .32 ACP pistols.

milemaker13 said:

I've always wanted her to carry but she brought it up on her own. I was surprised
She is a proficient shooter with her 1911.
I am trying to help her in her search for her first carry piece. Trust me, there is no forcing my wife to do anything, lol.
I'm thinking about asking a buddy to borrow his kel-tek .32 and see how she likes that.

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Yeah, so if she's proficient with a 1911, then she should probably stick with a semi auto.

For .25's, I like the Beretta 950 because it's Single action and has the nice trigger and they're about the most modern .25 ACP made. For .32's, uh... see how she does with a the Kel Tec, North American Arms, and Berette 3032 Tomcat. I'm not a big fan of the Beretta Tomcat, but if it works for her, it works for her.

milemaker13 said:

She is a proficient shooter with her 1911.

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Maybe take a look at the Sig P238 in .380 It has an operation like a 1911. Easy to operate slide and weighs in at 15.2oz which is more than the LCR 38 +P at 13.5oz. I know of several women that shoot the P238 very well and are very satisfied with it, all comment on how soft a shooter it is.

I also have one and have found it to be very reliable with every kind of ammo i have fed it.

During the summer I occasionally carry the PMR 30 by kel-tec and as a bug when I carry my 1911 the Naa 22 mag with custom grips made by Revision CV, gives the gun a better feel on the hand and makes more accurate to shoot. The pmr 30 the handle might be a little too wide for her hand so make sure she tries one.
Here is the link with the custom grips. If you go with the NAA 22 mag I would buy the side winder model, makes it easier to reload.

http://revisioncv.com/node/12

The Kel-Tec P32 is certainly a softer-shooter than the .380 guns in its size class, but it's not without flip and snap. However, put in one of KT's ten-round magazines, and you've got quite a difference.

The trigger is not a true double-action; the hammer is partially cocked against the sear when the slide is cycled. This reduces the trigger's pull weight.

milemaker13 said:

I've always wanted her to carry but she brought it up on her own. I was surprised
She is a proficient shooter with her 1911.
I am trying to help her in her search for her first carry piece. Trust me, there is no forcing my wife to do anything, lol.
I'm thinking about asking a buddy to borrow his kel-tek .32 and see how she likes that.

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Heck, I agree with TTv2. If she is proficient with the 1911 stay with a semi-auto.

What I don't understand is why men think women should carry weak ammunition for self-defense. Women and the elderly are the most common victims of violent crime. Most women do not have the physical size and strength to fight off a male attacker who are generally larger and stronger.

Blow back pistols are often harder to operate than delayed actions. The slide must be heavier and the recoil spring stronger as that is all that delays the pressure curve. Locked / delayed actions usually have lighter slide and recoil springs.

It comes down simply to this. When you need a gun for self-defense you need it bad and you need it to be powerful enough to end the nasty business immediately. The 32 just doesn't get it done.

If you're considering a 9mm, if she can handle it, go with the new EC9s Ruger just came out with. It's dirt cheap, has a great trigger, a safety, and 9 round magazines if she likes higher capacities. Also, there is low recoil 9mm ammo out there, something I don't think .380 has.

Then again, it's hard to be low recoil in a 10 ounce pistol.

BSA1 said:

Blow back pistols are often harder to operate than delayed actions. The slide must be heavier and the recoil spring stronger as that is all that delays the pressure curve. Locked / delayed actions usually have lighter slide and recoil springs.

It comes down simply to this. When you need a gun for self-defense you need it bad and you need it to be powerful enough to end the nasty business immediately. The 32 just doesn't get it done.

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In case you're referring to the Kel-Tec P-32, it isn't a blowback gun. Same as my Taurus TCP732, it's not a blowback gun either. Now every other .32 ACP I've seen has been a blowback gun. Large or small.

^^ The P32 and the Taurus PT732 are both locked-breech types. The Taurus has a slightly-thicker grip, more comfortable, to me at least. The Kel-Tec's seven-round stock magazine holds one more than does the Taurus magazine.

Both have the hybrid-DA triggers I mentioned earlier, in which the hammer is partially-cocked after a slide cycle. The one disadvantage to this (in the minds of some people) is that, if the hammer falls without the gun firing, such as in a case of a misfire, the hammer remains fully at rest until at least a partial re-rack of the slide is performed. The trigger will not work until then, so there is no "re-strike" capability.

Both are in short supply, the Taurus because it has been discontinued for some years now, and the Kel-Tec because production seems to have been slowed so the company can concentrate on their newer offerings.

The all-steel .32ACP pistols, such as the NAA Guardian and the Seecamp, are blowback operated. Though heavier, they are reported by more than a few shooters to be harsh in the hand.

I've yet to see a case in which a woman who has been targeted for rape or robbery (but not specifically for assassination) has deployed and fired in defense with a .32 caliber firearm and failed to prevail.

milemaker13 said:

Blow back vs... locking breech? What is the p-32?
What is the difference between the two in this conversation?

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Blow back means the means the barrel is fixed and the slide is weighted in a way that the bullet leaves just before the case is extracted; the slide will be heavier because that's necessary for the design. Non-Blowbacks will be smaller and lighter. Locked breech means when the pistol has fired, the ejection is done by using the recoil to push the slide back, unlocked the barrel and slightly tilting it as the slide moves back so that the bullet leaves the barrel just before the case is extracted.

That's the technical side, the big difference is locked breech is lighter, blowbacks are heavier, but are inherently more accurate because the barrel doesn't move.

MedWheeler said:

^^ The P32 and the Taurus PT732 are both locked-breech types. The Taurus has a slightly-thicker grip, more comfortable, to me at least. The Kel-Tec's seven-round stock magazine holds one more than does the Taurus magazine.

The all-steel .32ACP pistols, such as the NAA Guardian and the Seecamp, are blowback operated. Though heavier, they are reported by more than a few shooters to be harsh in the hand.

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As the owner of a TCP in .32 ACP and an owner of a NAA Guardian in .32 ACP, I can tell anyone that the Guardian is not a pleasant gun to shoot.

A Ruger LCP is more pleasant to shoot than a Guardian and the TCP732 feels like a pussycat in comparison to either.

If I didn't have the TCP, I'd have the Kel-Tec.

I've wished Ruger would put out a .32 ACP LCP for years. It would make a great softer recoiling pocket gun for those that can't handle shooting a flyweight .380 pocket gun.

My wife and I both carry NAA black widows sometimes when we're doing stuff on the water. They're tiny, light weight, and accurate.


As far as reliability goes, modern premium rimfire cartridges are as reliable as center fire from what I've seen. I've never not had one go bang in a 22 mag revolver, and I shoot a lot of 22 mag. As far as stopping power goes, with good defense ammo like Speer Gold dots, I would put it on par with 32acp. It's far more powerful than 22lr or 25acp, but it's definitely not a in the same league as a 380 with good defense ammo. Wile it penetrates well, it just doesn't put a very big hole in a target.

chicharrones said:

I've wished Ruger would put out a .32 ACP LCP for years. It would make a great softer recoiling pocket gun for those that can't handle shooting a flyweight .380 pocket gun.

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I'll second that.

I have a Kel-tec p32, and it's twice the shooter that the p3at is. I would love a Ruger LCP in 32acp

straightshooterjake said:

Unfortunately, the choices for .32 caliber revolvers in current production are quite limited. I would recommend looking at the Ruger LCR. The centerfire LCR revolvers generally have quite good triggers, and they are backed by Ruger's quality customer service. I generally prefer a Smith & Wesson, but S&W are not currently offering any new .32 caliber revolvers.

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Ruger has just brought back the 3" version of the SP101 in .327 Federal. It's SA/DA, and in addition to .327 Fed Magnum, it can shoot .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32 HR Magnum, and .32 ACP.