1911 Reliability for Self Defense?

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Fisherman12

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I've owned 5 1911s. I love shooting them, I love the looks, the history, and everything about them. I really would love to carry one as my primary CCW.

The only thing that makes me hesitant is the reliability factor. I've owned 3 Colts, a Springfield Loaded, and a Dan Wesson Valor. All of these were 5" Government Models chambered in .45 Auto. I still have the Colt, it's a 1991 series blued.

Before I ever shot my current Colt, I took it to a renowned 1911 gunsmith. I asked him to check the extractor, feed ramp, and all internals, saying that I wanted to make this 1911 as reliable as it can be. I also ordered Wilson Combat magazines and exclusively use those.

To his credit, the Colt has performed reliably almost all the time. After shooting 4000 rounds through it, though, it has not managed to go at least 1000 rounds without some kind of malfunction. My personal reliability requirement for a defensive handgun is at least 2000 rounds without a malfunction, and many of my pistols easily surpass that. No 1911 I've owned has.

I'm close to giving up on having a 1911 I consider reliable enough for self defense, as much as I love it. Does anyone have a 1911 that has gone at least 2000 rounds (assuming normal cleaning/maintenance) without a stoppage of any kind? Would I have to get something like a $3000 Wilson Combat to obtain a 1911 that reliable?
 
Fisherman12 said:
I've owned 5 1911s. I love shooting them, I love the looks, the history, and everything about them. I really would love to carry one as my primary CCW.

The only thing that makes me hesitant is the reliability factor. I've owned 3 Colts, a Springfield Loaded, and a Dan Wesson Valor. All of these were 5" Government Models chambered in .45 Auto. I still have the Colt, it's a 1991 series blued.

Before I ever shot my current Colt, I took it to a renowned 1911 gunsmith. I asked him to check the extractor, feed ramp, and all internals, saying that I wanted to make this 1911 as reliable as it can be. I also ordered Wilson Combat magazines and exclusively use those.

To his credit, the Colt has performed reliably almost all the time. After shooting 4000 rounds through it, though, it has not managed to go at least 1000 rounds without some kind of malfunction. My personal reliability requirement for a defensive handgun is at least 2000 rounds without a malfunction, and many of my pistols easily surpass that. No 1911 I've owned has.

I'm close to giving up on having a 1911 I consider reliable enough for self defense, as much as I love it. Does anyone have a 1911 that has gone at least 2000 rounds (assuming normal cleaning/maintenance) without a stoppage of any kind? Would I have to get something like a $3000 Wilson Combat to obtain a 1911 that reliable?
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What kind of malfunction did they have within 1000 rounds, was it with different ammo, and even if you find a 1911 or whatever pistol that goes 2000, doesn't mean they won't malfunction on the 2001th round or sometime thereafter....
 
I've got several 1911 pistols that run just fine. The only thing that will cause a bobble is bad ammo.

Springfield, S&W, Dan Wesson, Sig, and Colt.

I carry a LW Commander sized 1911 and have for years.

1000 rounds is a couple of dedicated range trips for me.
 
Fisherman12 said:
Would I have to get something like a $3000 Wilson Combat to obtain a 1911 that reliable?
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My observation has been that the people I know who are truly experienced, meaning they've actually trained extensively and fought real people with a pistol, who carry 1911's, spend at least $2500 on them. Most of them are really only carrying them for sentimental reasons and in most cases carry striker fired polymer frame guns the majority of the time.
 
Try Federal or American Eagle to get a baseline. IIRC S&B should be fine in your Valor as well. Try Tripp mags. 1911 mags are 99% of reliability issues. JMB messed up here. Worst mags in the entire autoloader world.

My Valor has never failed. So I have to be close to something.

http://www.trippresearchinc.com/7r-45-wg/

I wouldn't carry a 1911 unless it was flawless for 5000 rounds.

Glock........1000 rounds. Any decent class is 2000+.
 
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I have a few well-fitted 1911's that have never malfunctioned, at least that I can remember. Magazines are pretty important. Why not just use something that you know for sure always works, right now? If you feel that you need a 45 caliber hole in an attacker and nothing else will do, there are many reliable handguns designed in the last 30 years or so that will do this.
 
Had an American made Auto Ordnance Government model that lasted 2k before it was sold. Had a Colt Officers ACP that wouldn't shoot at all. Take that for what it's worth. If your gonna go the semi or full blown custom routes, I can't really offer you an opinion or experience there. I have seen many vids of the Wilson combats jamming frequently however. I have a Springfield TRP that apparently some FBI agents use thats been reliable.
 
If I had to wait to fire 2000 rounds total (not even considering your fault-free requirement) in a handgun before I carried it, I would have no handguns that were Fisherman12-Qualified for carry. :)
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Really the "total" requirement is 1000 shots before I will be comfortable carrying a handgun, but if I can't get it to go 2000 rounds without a failure, I begin to think something is wrong. I shoot a lot and often, and 2000 rounds isn't really that much to me (well, it is for my pocket book, but that's a different story). Most of my handguns (Glocks, HKs, Ruger) will go well over 2000 rounds without any sort of bobble, easy.

Why not just use something that you know for sure always works, right now? If you feel that you need a 45 caliber hole in an attacker and nothing else will do, there are many reliable handguns designed in the last 30 years or so that will do this.
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That's the practical solution, but I really love the 1911. I shoot it incredibly, I love the ergonomics, the balance, and the history. Part of my desire to carry one is sentimental or nostalgic, I suppose. If I could have a 1911 that can go 2k rounds without a hiccup, I would consider it the best handgun I own. Keep in mind that I already own a Glock 21 and an HK USP 45 that fit my reliability requirements, but I want to carry a 1911.

Gunsmith tuned 1911 unreliable? Multiple 1911’s unreliable? I must wonder if it’s operator error. Or trolling.
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Is it really so hard to believe? There are a lot more people than me who have had this happen to them, even with custom guns. It happens. As far as operator error, why do all my other handguns (and even my 1911 for 999/1000 rounds) shoot just fine?

What kind of malfunction did they have within 1000 rounds, was it with different ammo, and even if you find a 1911 or whatever pistol that goes 2000, doesn't mean they won't malfunction on the 2001th round or sometime thereafter....
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The current Colt 1991 Gov't Model I have has had 4 malfunctions in the (approximately) 4000 rounds I've shot out of it using Speer Lawman 230gr ball in Wilson Combat 47D magazines. 2 of the malfunctions simply left the empty case of the last round on top of the follower (with the slide locking back as normal), 1 was a misfeed, and 1 was a stovepipe.

I have seen many vids of the Wilson combats jamming frequently however.
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I have too, which makes me doubt going that route. If I spent $2500-$3000 on a handgun, I'd be upset if it was any less reliable than my cheap polymer boring guns.

American eagle 230 hardball is only reliable in a revolver.
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Can you expand a bit on this? I shoot Speer Lawman 230gr, but I was under the impression that AE was a solid choice for practice ammunition. I believe the PDs around here approve it as range ammo.
 
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Just uses good 7 or 8 rounds mags, 230 ball ammo, and any 1911 that was made as close as 1911 war time tolerances and you are good to go. Moving closer to competition it is another different variant of handgun.
 
I've got several 1911 pistols that run just fine. The only thing that will cause a bobble is bad ammo.

Springfield, S&W, Dan Wesson, Sig, and Colt.​
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I think Texas10mm has got it right to which I would also add possible problems with bad magazines. I carried a Colt Combat Commander customized by Colt's Custom Shop for many years and it has always been extremely reliable.

I wouldn't hesitate to carry that gun; anytime, anywhere.

ZFwuWE7.jpg ​
 
bearcreek said:
My observation has been that the people I know who are truly experienced, meaning they've actually trained extensively and fought real people with a pistol, who carry 1911's, spend at least $2500 on them. Most of them are really only carrying them for sentimental reasons and in most cases carry striker fired polymer frame guns the majority of the time.
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And yet, my first experience with a must be reliable 1911 was an old Remington Rand version. It worked just fine when it counted. I wonder what the government paid for it, twenty to thirty bucks?

And today, I don't have a single 1911 that cost anywhere near $2500. But everyone of them is reliable. I sometimes think folks have bought into the idea that for any firearm to be reliable they must spend a small fortune after purchase.
 
I've owned a dozen or so 1911s and still have 5 or 6 and I had a couple issues here and there with particular ones. A Ruger and Kimber needed adjustment to the extractor tension (a 5 minute task) and my 10mm RIA had some stiff mag springs that worked out after a few range trips. After that they all run 100% with factory ammo.

I've actually got more stoppages with my various Glocks than my 1911s. Only models I own that have never choked (usually on my handloads) are my two Sigs, a P226 and a P229.
 
jeepnik said:
And yet, my first experience with a must be reliable 1911 was an old Remington Rand version. It worked just fine when it counted. I wonder what the government paid for it, twenty to thirty bucks?

And today, I don't have a single 1911 that cost anywhere near $2500. But everyone of them is reliable. I sometimes think folks have bought into the idea that for any firearm to be reliable they must spend a small fortune after purchase.
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That's great. Means nothing to me though. Like I said, I'm talking about people I know who I know for a fact have legitimate, real world experience. No offense, but I haven't the slightest idea who you are, what experience you have or even what you mean by "experience" or "reliable", (since you didn't specify). Heck, I've talked to people who think that firing 500 rounds a year on a flat range without problems counts as "reliable". Not accusing you of that but I have no way of knowing. I don't own a 1911 at the moment so I have only very brief, cursory experience with them. Just telling you what I've observed and heard from those who've been there, done that and got the T-shirt, as it were.
 
JR24

Only models I own that have never choked (usually on my handloads) are my two Sigs, a P226 and a P229.
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I have had the same experience with a P226 and my brother's P228. If I wanted to try out some new handload I always used the P228; it would feed anything. One time I had some handloads that were just a bit too short to feed reliably in any of my other 9mm.s. So what did I do? I just ran them through the P228; never a problem for that gun!
 

Fisherman12 said:
it has not managed to go at least 1000 rounds without some kind of malfunction.
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There must be a cleaning or two in there, right?

​
And then there was my stainless Taurus. I believe she is up to eight thousand rounds now. Once, two years ago, she almost choked on an overly long, blue, semi wadcutter handload. For almost ten seconds! Just as I was about to put my thumb in to touch the bullet, she tried to bite it off!
Sassy girl!:)
I made sure I still had my thumb and went back to it.

I overpaid a princely sum of seven hundred sixty dollars, before I knew they could be had for less.

I carry her more than my Sig Nine Thirty Eight. I still shoot her more than my Wesson Silverback. (She has never stumbled either, for much less than twenty five hundred.;))





… And Hearsay makes for terrible actual experience...

Four of our Sheriff officers and two detectives carry Springfield Nineteen elevens, factory stock. They have been trained. I like to think they find them reliable...
 
bannockburn said:
I have had the same experience with a P226 and my brother's P228. If I wanted to try out some new handload I always used the P228; it would feed anything. One time I had some handloads that were just a bit too short to feed reliably in any of my other 9mm.s. So what did I do? I just ran them through the P228; never a problem for that gun!
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Yeah, I carry 147 grain and like to load similar practice ammo and some of the 147 grain bullets I've used, notably the flat point from RMR did not get along well with my Glocks, most notably my 19X and 26.4. I guess short/right chamber or something. I thought about experimenting with loading them shorter but decided occasional malfunction drills are useful for training anyway. My 226 and 229? They dont care what I shoot, i also had a P6/225 back in the day that ran anything.

I had a w.German P220 that was, due to magazine design, pretty sensitive to cartridges loaded too long (I wasnt loading at the time so I didnt have the calipers) and found a large portion of UMC ammo (20% on one box of 50) would hang up in the magazine. It was during one of the Obama panics and I lived in the Bush AK so I just eyeballed the long ones and ran em in my 1911 fine.

Dont have that P220 anymore, but dang that thing was a laserbeam.
 
JR24

Similar situation with my Browning BDA .45. Even with a stock trigger and fixed sights, with Match ammo that gun had no problem keeping up accuracy-wise with a Colt Gold Cup I had at the time. Also not nearly as fussy about ammo as the Gold Cup was.
 
My 3 1/2" Citadel M1911 shoots everything from 200gr. LSWC bullseye handloads to 230gr. Winchester White Box. My carry load is either 200gr. Gold Dots or XTPs.

The biggest cause of malfunctions in M1911s is bad or poorly adjusted magazines. I replaced my OEM magazines with McCormicks.
 
I have 3 Colt 1911's. All 45 acp and function 100% with 1000 rds exceeded.

I carry a Sig.

I wouldn't trust a 1911 unless it's a 5" and I'm not packing that much iron. Old school and YMMV.
 
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My observation has more been that if you're picking a gun blind (I.e. Not having shot it beforehand) that the pistol that rattles slightly is usually a bit more reliable.

That means that someone is shooting it and to shoot it that typically means that it functions.

(Note : I don't mean beat, I mean used)

Maybe the issue with some of these custom pistols is that in an effort to wring every bit of accuracy out of them that they're making the tolerances too tight.

A few shots here and there and then lubed and cleaned, they work fine. Higher round count and they start to bind.

Some of the more reliable pistols I've shot were rattle traps with at least acceptable accuracy.
 
bearcreek said:
That's great. Means nothing to me though. Like I said, I'm talking about people I know who I know for a fact have legitimate, real world experience. No offense, but I haven't the slightest idea who you are, what experience you have or even what you mean by "experience" or "reliable", (since you didn't specify). Heck, I've talked to people who think that firing 500 rounds a year on a flat range without problems counts as "reliable". Not accusing you of that but I have no way of knowing. I don't own a 1911 at the moment so I have only very brief, cursory experience with them. Just telling you what I've observed and heard from those who've been there, done that and got the T-shirt, as it were.
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I tried to put it simply. I’ll put it simpler. You know people who have. I, simply, have.
 
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