1911 Unreliable?

[chhodge69]

I own three sub-compact handguns; a Kel-tec PF-9, a Glock 30 and a Kimber Ultra. Guess which one fails the most? That's right, the Glock. The other two are prone to user error because it's hard to grip the small frame properly but the Glock is very picky about ammo. After shooting all 3 1500+ rounds each the 1911 comes out on top as the most reliable and most accurate in my hands.

in my hands. thats key here. Your mileage WILL vary.

 

[1911 guy]

The closer you get to "match" performance, the lousier reliability gets. Buy a Springield or Kimber for off the shelf choices, go with Baer, Nighthawk, etc if you've got coin.

Buy top of the line magazines. I like MetalForm, a few others are very good also.

Avoid Para Ordnance like the plague they are.

Feed it a box or two of hardball, clean it well and then buy a box of premium SD ammo. Make sure it feeds and fires 100% then go back and buy another box for use.

In short, avoid the gimmicks and hype and you'll be fine.

 

[Dr_B]

I have a Metro Arms that needed a lot of work, but shoots perfectly now. My Sig 1911 has worked perfectly out of the box with factory ammo. But it is picky with some of my reloads.

In comparison, my Sig P226 eats anything.

 

[mavracer]

Tuner, I've always found that amusing. How can Glocks or Sigs design feed more reliably than a 1911s when they use the same recripicating slide tilting barrel short recoil feeding from a magazine in the grip design?
As to the car analogy your new car uses the same 4 cycle internal combustion design. And while they do require a little maintinance and tuning a carburator and points ignition system are just about as reliable as the sun.

 

[1911Tuner]

How can Glocks or Sigs design feed more reliably than a 1911s when they use the same recripicating slide tilting barrel short recoil feeding from a magazine in the grip design?

The Glocks feed so reliably because the chamber ramp/throat is cut so deeply into the floor of the chamber, and lose head support...which, combined with the occasional headspace issue...leads to the oft-noted Glock-go-Splodey things. Ever noticed brass from a Glock with a little too much bulge just forward of the extractor groove? Heeeere's yer sign!

You can get the same result with a 1911 if you're willing to compromise case head support. All it takes is a Dremel and a "Hold my beer and watch this!" excursion. AKA Bubba's throwdown ramp'n'throat job.

None of my pistols are at all picky about feeding any reasonable bullet shape. Of course, I spring the pistols correctly and use proper magazines. I have it on good authority that John Browning and the Dream Team really did know what they were doing.

 

[HKGuns]

I have it on good authority that John Browning and the Dream Team really did know what they were doing.

Ya think?

Naw, I'm sure Gaston was a far more experienced firearms designer!:banghead:

 

[DenaliPark]

Why do the gLoCk fan boy's insist on littering every thread with their garbage?

Seriously, this is beyond old. This is a 1911 thread, not a gLoCk thread, quit crapping on every thread with your high school gLoCk crap. Go to GT if you want every thread to be about gLoCk.

There is ZERO reason to post anything about gLoCk in this thread. Stay on topic. Do you see others posting HK, M&P, S&W or other such links? No, you don't.

Looks like I have some additions to my ignore list.

Why don't you go somewhere else entirely! Glock & 1911 are iconic firearms, one(the Glock)takes much from the design of the 1911, putting it to spectacular use, Glock is always relevant to the topic of 1911's, always!

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

Why don't you go somewhere else entirely! Glock & 1911 are iconic firearms, one(the Glock)takes much from the design of the 1911, putting it to spectacular use, Glock is always relevant to the topic of 1911's, always!

Not always.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

 

[para38super]

Quite simple, really. First, I'll tell a short story about me and a friend of mine who finally saw the light.

Pre-Series 80 Colt Combat Commander, circa 1975 in LN condition. 500 rounds in, the OEM extractor snapped the hook flush with the breechface. Colt ships a new one....Series 80 type. Unknown round count later...snap. Colt ships a new one and advises him to look for the cause. Unknown round count later...snap again.

He calls me. Brings the gun over. Lo and behold...there they is. A half-dozen Shooting Stars in the range kit. I set him up with a new extractor and loan him 10 of my magazines. 3 months and 2500 rounds later, the extractor is still cookin'.

The explanation:

When a round...usually the last round...jumps the magazine and is chambered ahead of the extractor, sometimes the gun fails to go to battery and sometimes the claw climbs the rim and gives no indication that it's actually malfunctioning. The extractor wasn't designed to do that...so it imposes abnormal stresses on it...not only in total deflection, but impact. The older, spring-tempered extractors would tolerate it much better, but the newer ones are more unyielding...and they either lose tension or break.

To repeat:

Just because the gun is functioning is no guarantee that it's functioning correctly. The 1911 operates on the controlled feed principle. That silly little bump on the follower is there to help insure that it does that on the last round when spring tension is at a minimum.

Thank you for the explanation, so the important part is the bump on the magazine. So If I replace the follower in my Chip power mags with a follower with a bump, it all should be good, right?

After some research I found Checkmate sells a Checkmate follower with a bump. They also sell 8rd mags with the bump on the follower. What is your opinion on there proprietary follower?

Thanks again, I am going to continue using my Colt 7rd mags and find some followers for my other mags.

 

[1911Tuner]

So If I replace the follower in my Chip power mags with a follower with a bump, it all should be good, right?

Not without the spring that goes with it. The spring that mates up to the Devel/McCormick follower is designed specifically to work with that follower. It doesn't work well with a standard 7-round follower. YOu'll need to order the Wolff 7-round/11-pound spring. Be careful to get the right part number. The Extra Power 8-round spring is listed right beside it in Brownells. It's essentially the same spring that's in your Powermag.

I've turned a few Shooting Stars into reliable magazines with proper followers and springs. If the gun will run with wadcutter-type feed lips...and most will...it's a good fix.

Checkmate's patented Bull-Nose follower is basically a Devel-type follower with a skirt front and rear and a bump on top. I was involved with the development of that follower...mainly convincing them to incorporate the bump.

At first, they used it in a standard-length magazine for 8 rounds. Unfortunately, they couldn't arrange a spring that provided enough tension without extending the magazine and adding a false slam pad to cover the extension. It worked pretty well for a while...until the spring started to take a set. I finally convinced them to take a lesson from Virgil Tripp and his Cobra mags, and extend the length...and contract with Wolff to design a spring. Now they work.

 

[para38super]

Not without the spring that goes with it. The spring that mates up to the Devel/McCormick follower is designed specifically to work with that follower. It doesn't work well with a standard 7-round follower. YOu'll need to order the Wolff 7-round/11-pound spring. Be careful to get the right part number. The Extra Power 8-round spring is listed right beside it in Brownells. It's essentially the same spring that's in your Powermag.

I've turned a few Shooting Stars into reliable magazines with proper followers and springs. If the gun will run with wadcutter-type feed lips...and most will...it's a good fix.

Checkmate's patented Bull-Nose follower is basically a Devel-type follower with a skirt front and rear and a bump on top. I was involved with the development of that follower...mainly convincing them to incorporate the bump.

At first, they used it in a standard-length magazine for 8 rounds. Unfortunately, they couldn't arrange a spring that provided enough tension without extending the magazine and adding a false slam pad to cover the extension. It worked pretty well for a while...until the spring started to take a set. I finally convinced them to take a lesson from Virgil Tripp and his Cobra mags, and extend the length...and contract with Wolff to design a spring. Now they work.

I will order some Wolff springs as well; wadcutter lips seem to work just fine with my gun.
Maybe I could use those Checkmate 8rd ext mags for IDPA. Have you personally tried them and are you satisfied with them? Now that you mention Tripp, how do you feel about Tripp mags?

 

[MCgunner]

I never understood the fervor over the grip angle and feel of the 1911. I, personally, HATE it, too narrow and angle is too steep even with an arched mainspring housing. I tried 'em. Don't like SAs anyway as i carry revolvers and like a DA first shot in my autos, a training consistency thing. But, I was never enamored by my two 1911s and probably won't buy another. That's just me, of course. For those that like 'em, there's plenty to choose from.

My Ruger KP90DC feeds anything, even an empty case from the magazine. Just sayin" ....

 

[Spec ops Grunt]

Is there something wrong with me if I like the 1911 and the Glock?

 

[1911Tuner]

Maybe I could use those Checkmate 8rd ext mags for IDPA. Have you personally tried them and are you satisfied with them? Now that you mention Tripp, how do you feel about Tripp mag?

The extended 8-round Check-Mates are fine for IDPA or carry. They just don't sit flush with the magwell unless you've got a funnel. They're available with the wadcutter or the hybrid feed lips, by the way. If I'm not mistaken, they're also available in full-tapered GI "Hardball" style too.

Tripp's Cobras are excellent magazines. A bit pricey, but the samples that Virgil sent to me for testing were 100% in all my pistols and in several others that I loaned the magazines out to for beta testing. Only one complaint came in over a sluggish feed and return to battery on the top round from slidelock...and that disappeared after the springs took a little set. The guy doesn't wanna give'em up.

While we're on the subject...Virgil is a fine gent and a genuinely nice guy. He's right up there with Ned Christiansen.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Is there something wrong with me if I like the 1911 and the Glock?

A clear case of being a chronic gun nut.

 

[HDCamel]

Is there something wrong with me if I like the 1911 and the Glock?

BLASPHEMY!
/sarcasm

 

[para38super]

The extended 8-round Check-Mates are fine for IDPA or carry. They just don't sit flush with the magwell unless you've got a funnel. They're available with the wadcutter or the hybrid feed lips, by the way. If I'm not mistaken, they're also available in full-tapered GI "Hardball" style too.

Tripp's Cobras are excellent magazines. A bit pricey, but the samples that Virgil sent to me for testing were 100% in all my pistols and in several others that I loaned the magazines out to for beta testing. Only one complaint came in over a sluggish feed and return to battery on the top round from slidelock...and that disappeared after the springs took a little set. The guy doesn't wanna give'em up.

While we're on the subject...Virgil is a fine gent and a genuinely nice guy. He's right up there with Ned Christiansen.

I am assuming you would pick hybrid lips for the Checkmate Ext 8rd mags, right?
Do Tripp mags have a bump on the follower?

Thanks,

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

My Ruger KP90DC feeds anything, even an empty case from the magazine. Just sayin" ....

So what? What does this prove? I've never got why people throw this in. I bet my guns would cycle M&Ms with the right mags. So what?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

 

[stinger 327]

The closer you get to "match" performance, the lousier reliability gets. Buy a Springield or Kimber for off the shelf choices, go with Baer, Nighthawk, etc if you've got coin.

Buy top of the line magazines. I like MetalForm, a few others are very good also.

Avoid Para Ordnance like the plague they are.

Feed it a box or two of hardball, clean it well and then buy a box of premium SD ammo. Make sure it feeds and fires 100% then go back and buy another box for use.

In short, avoid the gimmicks and hype and you'll be fine.

What is wrong with the ParaOrdinace?
I saw a ParaOrdinance .45 ACP Warthog 10 shots and a very nice compact size. S/A (Cocked and locked)
Right next to it was a D/A S/A Sig Sauer P-220 same price but it was a full size model.
The Sig Sauer P-220 is a better made gun than ParaOrdinance Warthog?
I had heard that the Warthog jams alot.

 

[makarovnik]

I think they are sexy but there are more reliable platforms available for a less money. My advice, look elsewhere for affordable and consistent reliability.

 

[1911Tuner]

I am assuming you would pick hybrid lips for the Checkmate Ext 8rd mags, right?

It depends. If my ammunition is hardball...long OAL...I'd lean toward the hybrid type lips. If I intended to use SWCs, and the gun is compatible...really, either one will do. THe main advantage in the tapered/hybrid lips is that they allow the feed and barrel ramp geometry a little more room for error and still feed well. If those things are good, the wadcutter type magazine is good to go...assuming enough spring.

I've seen several instances with pistols that produced mild 3-Point Jams, and even a few that did hard 3-Points that caused stoppages, start to function reliably by switching to hybrid or even full-tapered GI magazines. The other option was to send the frame out to have the ramp recut to the correct angle, or...worst case...an insert. It boils down to a question of expediency and cost. Cheaper and easier to buy a few magazines...or send the pistol out for major surgery? Depending on how bad the problem is, it doesn't always work...but it works often enough that I can't dismiss it.

Do Tripp mags have a bump on the follower?

Kinda/sorta. Not in the traditional manner, but they do have a mechanism in place to keep the last round controlled...along with an uber-stout spring. That's the one drawback with the Cobra. By the time you get the 8th round in, your thumb is beggin' for mercy.

 

[jon_in_wv]

I've owned several 1911s and NONE of them were reliable. A few months ago I bit the bullet again and bought a American Classic II. Last year I shot a guys Firestorm 1911 at the range (same maker) and I shot it much better than my P220. When I handled this one at the store it is one of the most nicely fitted and smoothest 1911s I've ever seen. I bought it on the spot. Yesterday I was sorting some of my brass and I realized I've already shot about 2/3 a ice cream pail worth of brass through my ACII and it has been 100% reliable. If you are looking for a good reliable 1911 I would try the ACII. If you loose out at least you aren't out as much as some of the other brands.

 

[1911Tuner]

I've owned several 1911s and NONE of them were reliable.

A sad statement that seems to be too common these days, and the biggest reason...in my experience...is that the producers of these pistols seem to be making them up as they go.

The good news is that...discounting outright junk...the solutions are most often very simple. It's just that many people become disgusted and are unwilling to explore...and they shouldn't have to. Easier to sell or trade the gun off and forget about it.

I mean...this thing has been around for a century. Buildin' a good one really ain't rocket science.

I remember a time when Colt was the only company making 1911 pistols. When you bought one, you could expect it to work, and they did. On the rare occasion that one didn't...and the buyer sent it back for repair...Colt would simply replace the pistol about as often as not, and it was returned with a handwritten letter of apology for the inconvenience. That was in another galaxy, though. Now, they tell you to shoot it 500 times or to stop limp-wristing or to slather all sorts of oil on it before bothering them again.

 

[jackpinesavages]

I'm a little confused, but I must have just gotten lucky: STI TargetMaster that has been flawless- bought new, Caspian custom that has soooo much WC and Nowlin stuff in it that's flawless running and bought very used, and a Para GI Expert that eats everything with no hiccups either-bought slightly used.

At the fun show and I find used McCormick Power or WC mags I buy em. No problems and I dont tune em.

 

[1911Tuner]

No need for confusion, jack. The majority of them work just fine...but too many of them don't. There's really no excuse for building a truly bad 1911 pistol. It ain't exactly a Swiss watch.