Solvent trap

748 said:

Signed a form 4 electronically from silencer shop that was sent to my email for a silencerCo osprey the other day. It sure seems electronic to me.

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"Seems"? Again, for the inth time...........it isn't submitted to ATF electronically as is eForms, but as a PAPER FORM 4. I fully explained that to you in this thread: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/fingerprint-card-problem-due-to-ccp-virus.868964/

Words have meaning, when you write about electronic Form 4's, other forum members understand that to mean eForms. Thats because eForm is the online electronic submission of ATF NFA forms......excepting Form 4's. Your statement above: "...faster than any kind of form 4, snail mailed or silencer shop electronic...." shows you really don't know what you think you know. There is only one "kind of form 4" and Silencer Shop submits a PAPER FORM 4, EXACTLY LIKE EVERY OTHER FORM 4.......via snail mail. It is no faster than you signing your name to a paper F4, licking a stamp and dropping it in the mail. In fact, if I were to process a paper F4 here in my office, I'll have it in the mail DAYS faster than Silencer Shop.

748 said:

How can it be just like a regular form 4 if I never send finger print cards and a passport picture?

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AGAIN, as explained ad nauseum, whether you scan your prints at a Silencer Shop kiosk, have them rolled by LE or rolled yourself and mailed to Silencer Shop.........the process is identical. Silencer Shop will PRINT THEM on to FBI FD258LE fingerprint cards, Silencer Shop will PRINT your photo on the PAPER Form 4 that they MAIL to ATF. At no point is the Form 4, your photo or your fingerprints submitted electronically to ATF. When you utilize Silencer Shop and their Powered By Dealers, you give them permission to keep your information, your photo and your fingerprints on file. Silencer Shop can then use that for futire submissions. While unique among firearm distributors, this is also done by a number of dealers, using their own fingerprint scanners, photo apps and guess what?...........also printed ont paper and snail mailed to ATF.

Even with the obsolete eForm 4 you still had to send paper fingerprint cards and passport pictures right?

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Yep

Since my picture is taken, sent and stored all electronically, fingerprints are the same, the payment is submitted electronically, I signed the form 4 electronically. Then they send me and law enforcement a nice hard copy.

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And they send ATF a copy BY MAIL as well.

I'm just going to call it an electeonic Form 4 since it's way more digitized than the obsolete eForm

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Well, no.
The obsolete eForm 4 WAS electronic, allowing the immediate upload of the buyers information, skipping the ATF data entry clerk. This made eForm 4's several months faster than paper F4's. And that is why you appear ignorant of what "electronic" or eForms really does. You see no difference, yet those of us who have done hundreds if not thousands of Form 4's DO UNDERSTAND the difference.

and if for no other reason just to irritates the urine out of certain people.

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No, it just makes you look ill informed. Purposely misleading others by continuing to post false and misleading information is wrong. And your supposed electronic Form 4 does not currently exist.

748 said:

How can it be just like a regular form 4 if I never send finger print cards and a passport picture?
Even with the obsolete eForm 4 you still had to send paper fingerprint cards and passport pictures right?
Since my picture is taken, sent and stored all electronically, fingerprints are the same, the payment is submitted electronically, I signed the form 4 electronically. Then they send me and law enforcement a nice hard copy.
I'm just going to call it an electeonic Form 4 since it's way more digitized than the obsolete eForm and if for no other reason just to irritates the urine out of certain people.

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It is a regular paper Form 4. You just don't see the wizard behind the curtain printing it out and mailing it.

Can't fire anything through it. It would be as effective as sticking the muzzle against the ground and pulling the trigger until the end caps and baffles are drilled out.

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I wonder how that positions you as far as constructive intent goes, once you receive your solvent trap, with all of your pertinent silencer information engraved in it without having an approved form 1 in hand?

If you have access to a lathe, why pay $300 for 3 pieces of aluminum?

I edited your post and you can expect a warning. We don't talk like that here

I've built 3 cans on a form1, unfortunately none recently, all took 10+ months to come back. I don't think any are as efficient as "store bought" but all are hearing safe for their intended purposes, even my 223 titanium can ... you get what you pay for and now days you can build a pretty decent looking can from solvent trap kits which are obviously intended to be made into suppressors ... just be sure you have your stamp before drilling any holes that would make it functional. This silly felony could cause an otherwise law abiding citizen to loose the right to ever own another modern firearm.

748 said:

...Any one who tells you buying a solvent trap is illegal, or that the ATF will raid you if you buy one is full of ....

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Oh yeah?
https://www.internationalsportsman.com/illegal-chinese-silencers-seized-in-the-u-s/
From the article:

If you are a firearms enthusiast and have been on Facebook over the past month you might have seen ads for sketchy-looking silencers thinly disguised as solvent traps. As it turns out, that is exactly what they were: illegal silencers from China, at least according to the ATF.

ICE’s Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) Detroit and the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Eastern District of Michigan announced Monday, July 13th, 2020 the seizure of a website located at http://lafoauto.com/, following an HSI Detroit investigation with assistance from U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP), and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives. Visitors to the site will now find a seizure notice bearing law enforcement shields........

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748 said:

Can't fire anything through it. It would be as effective as sticking the muzzle against the ground and pulling the trigger until the end caps and baffles are drilled out.

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Here is a bit of a twist on your, "Can't fire anything through it." I know for a fact that some of the Chinese solvent traps come with two end caps. One cap is solid with a centring dimple. The other one allows for a .46" pass-through (I just measured it). That's right, as delivered it can be screwed onto the end of a firearm and be used as a silencer. Drilling the closed end cap will make for a better silencer, but it is not necessary for the solvent trap to be used as a silencer.

I had my form 1 before it ever arrived, however, it really does seem to stretch the limit of calling it a solvent trap.

Nobody ever remembers pictures.

Hasaf said:

Here is a bit of a twist on your, "Can't fire anything through it." I know for a fact that some of the Chinese solvent traps come with two end caps. One cap is solid with a centring dimple. The other one allows for a .46" pass-through (I just measured it). That's right, as delivered it can be screwed onto the end of a firearm and be used as a silencer. Drilling the closed end cap will make for a better silencer, but it is not necessary for the solvent trap to be used as a silencer.

I had my form 1 before it ever arrived, however, it really does seem to stretch the limit of calling it a solvent trap.

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As so often happens someone decided to push the rules and the law. The "Solvent Trap" "kits" I have seen did not make this mistake. They come to you useless as a suppressor. You then can follow the laws, assuming your state allows, and make them a legal suppressor. I have not yet seen the ones made for rounds like .223 or 308 in action. The ones I have seen for a .22 work amazing for the cost. They are so much cheaper, and for now take a very short time to get the OK on, compared to the ones the big names make. The "kit" while it comes useless as a can, is so easy to make (AFTER YOU GET YOUR STAMP) that a kid can do it. One great Video shows a guy making one at the kitchen table of his RV, with his pre teen Daughter doing the work. She then demonstrates how well it works when they are done. "Kit" cost him less than $50.

Alex Clayton said:

As so often happens someone decided to push the rules and the law. The "Solvent Trap" "kits" I have seen did not make this mistake. They come to you useless as a suppressor. You then can follow the laws, assuming your state allows, and make them a legal suppressor. I have not yet seen the ones made for rounds like .223 or 308 in action. The ones I have seen for a .22 work amazing for the cost. They are so much cheaper, and for now take a very short time to get the OK on, compared to the ones the big names make. The "kit" while it comes useless as a can, is so easy to make (AFTER YOU GET YOUR STAMP) that a kid can do it. One great Video shows a guy making one at the kitchen table of his RV, with his pre teen Daughter doing the work. She then demonstrates how well it works when they are done. "Kit" cost him less than $50.

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Well, I believe thats the essence of why ATF considers them a silencer...........ease of conversion from the supposed solvent trap to silencer.

dogtown tom said:

Well, I believe thats the essence of why ATF considers them a silencer...........ease of conversion from the supposed solvent trap to silencer.

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Not sure which "kit" you are talking about. The one I am talking about is still for sale, and is NOT a problem for the Feds. Now if you buy one and start drilling it out before you get your stamp? Then yes you are asking for trouble. Even Amazon is selling the one the one I am talking about.

Alex Clayton said:

Not sure which "kit" you are talking about. The one I am talking about is still for sale, and is NOT a problem for the Feds. Now if you buy one and start drilling it out before you get your stamp? Then yes you are asking for trouble. Even Amazon is selling the one the one I am talking about.

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Obviously my post references ATF actions vs a certain "kit". You would need to ask ATF why the solvent traps they are seizing are contraband and others are not.

dogtown tom said:

Obviously my post references ATF actions vs a certain "kit". You would need to ask ATF why the solvent traps they are seizing are contraband and others are not.

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Look at the pictures at the following link. It should become clear why the authorities in question targeted this particular operation:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...paign=Feed:+TheFirearmBlog+(The+Firearm+Blog)

748 said:

I don't know or care what lafoauto dot Com is, sounds foreign.

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You should.

The Chinese don't know how to skirt US law.

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Odd, how they've been doing exactly that for decades.

If you buy American then customs won't be involved to misinterpret ATF regs.

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If you took the time to read the links you'll note Customs AND ATF were involved. No need for Customs to "misinterpret" ATF regs when ATF is holding the item in question.
Further, what proof do you have that ATF regs were misinterpreted?

I used to go over seas a lot and found customs to over all be the most incompetent government agency I have ever encountered.

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Cool story bro.

If you have to drill every baffle it's not a silencer part.

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Says who?

You don't seem to be able to grasp the difference.

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No sir, for the 87th time you have failed to grasp that what I posted isn't personal opinion but a link to what ATF's opinion is.

If you want to walk around on egg shells and act as if everything is illegal please be my guest.
It's sounds like a dull meaningless existence.

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I'm not walking on eggshells and everything isn't illegal.
But your claim "...Any one who tells you buying a solvent trap is illegal, or that the ATF will raid you if you buy one is full of ...." is clearly false. I posted evidence that shreds your assertion to the bone.

Bottom line is that there is no bottom line as to when a solvent trap becomes a silencer. Anyone contemplating building a Form 1 silencer from a solvent trap or fuel filter damn well better be prepared for the consequences.

azrocks said:

Look at the pictures at the following link. It should become clear why the authorities in question targeted this particular operation:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/07/16/homeland-security-sieze-website/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheFirearmBlog+(The+Firearm+Blog)

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To me it looks like a drilled monocore with undrilled end cap and the other looks like baffles that have not been drilled.