Not your gunfight, but you get involved anyway

Yes, citizens coming to the aid of LEOs does happen. In Texas, I am aware of at least two incidents of citizens intervening with gunfire, to help LEOs who desperately needed help. In each case, LE gratefully “took care of” these citizens. That does not mean that an armed citizen will always get such favorable treatment, but, Texas law does allow a private citizen to intervene, with reasonable force, if the incident is a felony or breach of the peace. “Reasonable force” does include deadly force.

Tow truck drivers have arrived, large wrenches in hand, ready to help me, in tense situations. (Tow truck drivers monitor the police, fire, and EMS radio frequencies, in order to respond more quickly.)
 
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MEHavey said:
Lexington postscript:
When the smoke cleared, eight militiamen lay dead and
nine were wounded, while only one Redcoat was injured.

Doing the right thing oft times comes at significant cost.
"...not because they are easy, but because they are hard"

.
Click to expand...

The first time the government came to take our guns, we killed um'!

The quiet majority just isn't pi55ed off enough YET!
 
lemaymiami said:
As a general principle encouraging citizens to refrain from acting as law enforcers is pretty reasonable - but that has its limits..

Would you stand by and do nothing while watching a young woman get raped?

Would you stand by and do nothing while watching a man being beaten to death by another armed with a baseball bat?

At what point do you act - even knowing that you place yourself in grave danger by doing so?

I won't provide a single answer to these questions - but every citizen probably needs to consider - just how to respond - or not at all. Well in advance of that once in a lifetime event.
Click to expand...
We always think of course we would act in cases like that, and then LE members point out how diffficult it is to know what's really happening in a violent encounter. Those warnings have made an impression. Maybe if someone is being violent to a child would be another exception.
 
I agree with this:

lemaymiami said:
I won't provide a single answer to these questions - but every citizen probably needs to consider - just how to respond - or not at all. Well in advance of that once in a lifetime event.
Click to expand...

Long ago, I decided that my tools and training were for self-defense, and for defending those I love. Generally NOT for defending third parties.

I believe that being willing to defend third parties, or deciding not to defend them, are each morally acceptable positions.

One personal exception: if a uniformed peace officer is under attack and clearly needs or asks for help, I will do everything I can to assist and defend him or her.
 
gryphon1911 said:
It saddens me to see fellow people here that could have the means to potentially save a life sit back and say they would not help. You don’t know how long backup is going to be.

I hope and pray that something like this never happens to your family members and you find out that your neighbors stayed safe and let something horrible happen to them because they only wanted to worry about “themselves and their own”.

we are all part of a collective whole and we are “our own”. We’ve segregated ourselves too much already and tried to make ourselves islands.
Click to expand...
The law provides fro the proper use of force in defense of others.

What it does not allow is for people to act as police officers.
 
It would haunt me to my dying day if in that situation I had the means to help and I did not. A uniform on an officer immediately delineates the good guy from the bad guys. In my mind, if the police are taking a beating, society is taking a beating; society has to start winning more often. As far as stepping into a free floating domestic dispute, or drug grudge, even an active shooter, no thank you. I am not anyone's knight in shining armor.
 
JeffG said:
"…A uniform on an officer immediately delineates the good guy from the bad guys…"
Click to expand...
Plenty of police officers in history have received criminal convictions. Even for violent crimes.
Uniforms are not magical. That is why my line in the sand is knowing person I'm helping.
 
Kleanbore said:
"…That would not be a reasonable factor for most people…"
Click to expand...
Some are posting how they would eagerly assist a police officer.
Yet why not a Paramedic/EMT? Or a firefighter? Or a FedEx/UPS driver?
Or uniformed plumber outside his truck? Or uniformed food delivery guy?

That might be a police officer and his/her sibling in an ugly family fight over inheritance money.
You might be shooting at a person connected to organized crime and you will never be safe.
No matter what…we are talking endless hours in a courtroom and your life will be ripped apart.

Oh…and they will be examining every post your ever made on The Highroad and The Firing Line.
You will need an understanding employer who is comfortable with notoriety, publicity, and expense.
Thinking about moving or doing a major home improvement? Allocate that money for legal help.

Thanks but my willingness to dangerously hang my butt in the breeze is for family and dear lifelong friends.
 
By the way, hear the sirens and screaming engines about a quarter-mile away?
There you are, with an injured officer, with a gun in your hand, plus adrenaline pumping.

The officer's last radio transmission before passing out:
"Shooter is wearing blue jeans, gray sweatshirt, and sneakers."

Dang, and guess what you just happened to pick from the clean laundry basket this morning?
There is no way I am going to get shot over a bunch of people (both sides) whom I do not even know.
 
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"...I'll play the ball as I find it lies..." is quite different
than declaring one will not play the game at all.

Kleenbore's admonition that one takes risk in so-doing
held in balance....


.
 
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Blue Jays said:
Some are posting how they would eagerly assist a police officer.
Click to expand...
I would not eagerly reach fro my firearm under any circumstances.

I would be more likely to engage gunmen who were shooting at a unformed officer with this patrol car nearby than persons involved with just about anyone else whom I did not know.

It's a judgement call.

Blue Jays said:
There you are,.... with a gun in your hand,...
Click to expand...
There's a solution to that.
 
Blue Jays said:
Some are posting how they would eagerly assist a police officer.
Yet why not a Paramedic/EMT? Or a firefighter? Or a FedEx/UPS driver?
Or uniformed plumber outside his truck? Or uniformed food delivery guy?

That might be a police officer and his/her sibling in an ugly family fight over inheritance money.
You might be shooting at a person connected to organized crime and you will never be safe.
No matter what…we are talking endless hours in a courtroom and your life will be ripped apart.

Oh…and they will be examining every post your ever made on The Highroad and The Firing Line.
You will need an understanding employer who is comfortable with notoriety, publicity, and expense.
Thinking about moving or doing a major home improvement? Allocate that money for legal help.

Thanks but my willingness to dangerously hang my butt in the breeze is for family and dear lifelong friends.
Click to expand...
Sadly in some areas paramedics and firefighters are now also attacked. I was going to include them in my post but around here that would not happen.

In the Arizona case I mentioned, the police officer was on the ground, the BG was on top of him beating him mercilessly and trying to take his sidearm. That doesn't sound like relatives disputing an inheritance.

As for money for legal defense, that's why I have carry insurance.
 
I'm sure the Wendy's employee that arrived to face a shotgun wielding man during a disturbance might need help too.
 
Good Ol' Boy said:
but you won't find any sane person getting involved in something like that in today's world.
Click to expand...

It depends upon the community and the unique circumstances.
You're correct for some places and some situations, but not for others.
In ex-urb and rural communities, coming to the aid of neighbors is still standard practice.
 
hso said:
It depends upon the community and the unique circumstances.
You're correct for some places and some situations, but not for others.
In ex-urb and rural communities, coming to the aid of neighbors is still standard practice.
Click to expand...



Please...

I live in the sticks. Dont confuse rural folks helping each other for gun play that goes down in the city.

Remember that thread I posted about the road rage guy? Everything worked out fine but had that situation resulted in guns drawn and shots fired the closest "neighbors" a 1/4 mile in either direction would've just assumed someone was target shooting.

Rural folks helping each other is either a phone call or randomly coming upon someone in need.

Now someone's going to tell me its the same in the city. Its not, and that's a fact. Been there got the tee-shirt.
 
Good Ol' Boy writes:

I'm glad things worked out in the OP's story but you won't find any sane person getting involved in something like that in today's world.
Click to expand...

I believe we just did (unless these neighbors have since been declared insane.)
 
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Blue Jays said:
By the way, hear the sirens and screaming engines about a quarter-mile away?
There you are, with an injured officer, with a gun in your hand, plus adrenaline pumping.

The officer's last radio transmission before passing out:
"Shooter is wearing blue jeans, gray sweatshirt, and sneakers."

Dang, and guess what you just happened to pick from the clean laundry basket this morning?
There is no way I am going to get shot over a bunch of people (both sides) whom I do not even know.
Click to expand...
Let’s debate the facts and not delve in to make believe.
 
According to news story, Jesse Marshall (guy with head tattoo of wolf with bloody fangs) yelled at the drunken shooter Joel Young (guy in red shirt in custody) that he would "I see you and I will kill you" if he appeared again.

Joel Young had apparently shot (and missed) the other neighbor who was burning brush and sticks.
Rather than yelling at the drunk Young to inform him he had "seen combat" Marshall could have gone inside.

From the video, it seems the drunken Young offered them a beer before any shots were fired at deputies.
That was obviously the time for deescalating language and seeking to get people to chill. Nobody (thankfully) had been struck at that point. Heck, it was certainly not the time to yell at a drunk guy about combat and killing.

According to the news story…it was after that verbal exchange the deputies arrived and this second round of shooting began where the two deputies were very unfortunately struck.
 
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A few years back in NC one of my wife’s cousins stopped a guy from beating his girlfriend. So the guy turned towards buddy and his friend shot them both. Cousin didn’t make it. His friend did. Just know something like this could mean you not coming home. Glad everything worked out for them.
 
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