why not a bullpup?

In practical terms the biggest downside to nearly all 'pups I've seen is that the LOP is fixed. There's no reason it would have to be but few designs seem to prioritize give the end user some adjustment. The triggers tend to be poorer but as another poster mentioned if you design the thing with electronic ignition it could be as crisp as anything on the market. Ejection can certainly be designed to toss the brass wherever you want it to go. I'm not all that interested in them, probably because I grew up shooting conventional designs, but like many guys my age I've always kind of wanted to have a Steyr AUG. I blame Die Hard for that!

drband said:

Well, somebody has to say it…

Hipoint bull pup conversion…
View attachment 1107275
comes in 9mm, 10mm, .380acp, .45acp, and .40sw

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I did it to my 10MM Hi Point carbine. Feels fine, ergonomics are ok but the trigger needs help. Still shoots fine though.

The great thing about them in 556 is it enables a full length barrel. 556 needs that. I cannot think of a single advantage if one uses a pistol caliber. 556 is the only round i can think of that benefits from it.

drband said:

Well, somebody has to say it…

Hipoint bull pup conversion…
View attachment 1107275
comes in 9mm, 10mm, .380acp, .45acp, and .40sw

Click to expand...

If that can be done with a shell deflector or a left handed version, I would be in to try that.

They cost a lot of money and take up room in the safe but they would be a great choice if you needed to stow and/or quickly deploy a rifle from any kind of tank or fighting vehicle or even a regular vehicle. If you had to deliver a butt stroke or bayonet thrust, I think you would prefer a traditional rifle. I handled the Springfield Hellion recently and I liked it but it's a lot of money and it's not exactly battle tested so passing on it was pretty easy.

The only ones I have worked with are the 1st gen AUG, FAMAS, and FN P90. The AUG and FAMAS were hot garbage in my opinion. The P90 took a bit of getting used to, and I can see why certain outfits really like them- the 2 issues with it is that they don't lend themselves well to accessories like white lights and sling mounting doesn't leave many options. I have never had the opportunity to fire the Tavor or FN 2000, but I would welcome an opportunity to try both.

Something about having a 62k PSI normal pressure round with bullet setback/case head separation/OOB detonation going off right next to my face leaves something to be desired.

Mag changes are an issue, especially when prone.

Triggers are often very much lackluster with the long trigger bar needed.

Real estate in the front of the rifle for lights, peq-15, etc can be an issue.

But there are definite advantages, one should weigh the pros and cons and make their own decision. For me, the cons outweigh the pros.

berettaprofessor said:

First, I'm a lefty...don't like them ejecting into my face. Also if shooting "right" I don't like my face close to where a double charge would blow up my cheek or right eye. Other then that, mostly bad triggers, difficult takedown for cleaning, and just plain ugly.

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I like my Springfield "Hellion" pretty good as easily convertible for both L and R handed shooters. The trigger is acceptable. Takedown is easy enough. No uglier than the other black rifles I own. The name is stupid.

citizenconn said:

I like my Springfield "Hellion" pretty good as easily convertible for both L and R handed shooters. The trigger is acceptable. Takedown is easy enough. No uglier than the other black rifles I own. The name is stupid.

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Just saw one at the Ankeny, IA Fleet Farm for like $1800. Not too bad considering some well north of $2K.

I always lusted for an AUG. i understand the military desire for a bullpup’s short length to compensate for body armor, winter battle dress, and transport. No way I could afford one. I got a Kel Tec Su-16C, with the folding stock. It fires folded, 23.5” overall! Able to engage from 1 to 300 meters. Alternatively assemble a AR-15 with a 10.5” barrel, get the SBR stamp, and save $1000.

The_Quartermaster said:

If that can be done with a shell deflector or a left handed version, I would be in to try that.

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I’m a lefty and if you look at the bullpup 10MM pic I posted you’ll see the deflector that comes with it to keep us lefties from getting brass in the face. Works quite well.

tactikel said:

I always lusted for an AUG. i understand the military desire for a bullpup’s short length to compensate for body armor, winter battle dress, and transport. No way I could afford one. I got a Kel Tec Su-16C, with the folding stock. It fires folded, 23.5” overall! Able to engage from 1 to 300 meters. Alternatively assemble a AR-15 with a 10.5” barrel, get the SBR stamp, and save $1000.

Click to expand...

I've looked at those but never knew if they are actually any good or not. How is it? Not to get off topic.

The Kel Tecs are quite unique, they have an AR bolt, with an AK gas system, the best of both. They have a polymer receiver, and a rather poor trigger, but will shine in a pinch as a bug out/shtf survival arm for light duty. As a HD/SD arm they aren’t an AR but will suffice.

brass shower said:

I have no real need for this but I still want one…

https://jtacindustries.com/jtac-l1-stribog-bullpup-pistol-lower/

View attachment 1107526 View attachment 1107523

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This thing is intriguing. Is it sold as a pistol, without the buttpad? Wonder how the BATF feels if you 'shoulder' the frame of the thing, with a red dot sight further forward? The ability to use optic sights has really opened the possibilities for designers, who were previously hamstrung by the need for sight radius.
Moon

redcon1 said:

They cost a lot of money and take up room in the safe but they would be a great choice if you needed to stow and/or quickly deploy a rifle from any kind of tank or fighting vehicle or even a regular vehicle. If you had to deliver a butt stroke or bayonet thrust, I think you would prefer a traditional rifle. I handled the Springfield Hellion recently and I liked it but it's a lot of money and it's not exactly battle tested so passing on it was pretty easy.

Click to expand...

The Hellion is just a semi auto VHS-2. That rifle has extensive battle use in Iraq over the last nearly decade. It's also the service rifle of the Croatian army.

I owned a Bushmaster M-17S for a while. It was interesting to shoot and had a 20-inch chrome lined barrel. Grouped okay but had pretty trigger clunky linkage. It was awkward to mount any type of optic for me and I don't remember red dots being available at the time. Mine did not have a flash suppressor.

I held an IMI Tavor in 5.56 more recently. The guy who brought it into the shop was pretty excited about it, as he had just bought it. I don't know what he paid for it then, but today's prices are north of $1500.

Possibly the Looks.

Maybe too radical.

Tried just one. A guy let me shoot his Tavor .223.
Had the trigger not been much worse than a stock Sig P6, it might have offered some appeal.

I shot quite a few rounds from a steyr AUG. Biggest problem for me was probably noise. Muzzle is a lot closer to your ears than normal, also the ejection port where some gas/noise escapes is right under your ear, unlike normal S/A where the port( and of course barrel) are further forward. It was bad enough I decided as an instant use gun( aka at times by necessity without hearing protection) the gun was a no go.

Fellas have crazy short barrels on all sorts of guns these days admittedly so maybe its not something that bothers everyone...

I like them, but only as range fun guns. I’ve got these three and while I really enjoy the oddball appeal of the FS2000, the Tavor wins out in shootability (especially with its 13” barrel. I’d pick a good AR over either, though, for handling and ergonomics (and accuracy, too). A 10.5” AR is about the same OAL as the FS2000 but feels so much handier.

The PS90 is remarkably small, but of course that’s what it was designed for. It’s so compact, and easy to pack a few hundred rounds with you. Accurate, too—in my first range visit I shot it at 100m and for a 5-round 4” group with a 1X Aimpoint.

I helped a Vet out once and he sold me a 1965 SKS that was a bring back.
After a few decades of being in the safe, it came out like this one.

Nothing wrong with a bullpup. Short overall package with 16” barrel ballistics. But they take some getting used to for sure. I’m a little too engrained in AR rifles and will opt to stick with that, personally. But that’s just my own personal thoughts there.

I harassed my dealer for a styer years back last year we worked out a trade he wanted it back I got 3 guns for the one I never look back….. trigger works but not exactly what I call smooth the adjustable gas system was cool depending on the ammo your shooting but then a pain to clean and if you didn’t clean it the piston would become stuck….. just a nightmare in my opinion.
Almost got a ps90 years back but the ammo rotates 90 degrees as it feeds just seemed slightly complex? Like every other firearm feeds bullets up that one feeds down and rotates. Ehh less complex fire arms would be more reliable in my opinion