Cold dead fingers, Really?

Along with the chest pounding and bravado, folks are assuming that their "fight to the end" will be a glorious one and they will be immortalized to their family and the world. Truth is, odds are almost non-existent that total gun confiscation will ever happen, and if it does, our country will have no resemblance to what it is now. Long before you die with your "cold dead hands" wrapped around your last firearm in resistance to our present government, you will probably be killed over food, water, a way to heat your home, or another individual wanting your weapons. Long before a "tyranny" is imposed, there will be mass chaos and our way of life in America as we know it now will be a distant memory. If this does happen, you really think those after your weapons will respect your family and allow them to live if you resist? You really think they will call you out of your house instead of burning it to the ground with you and your family in it? You really think you will know they are even coming? You really think they will hesitate put a bullet thru your grandaughters brain if you don't come out with your hands up and guns exposed? Odds are tho, she already would have been killed just because you resisted, or the other members of your family would have given up your guns to save themselves from the same fate. You really think your family would respect your stand on keeping your guns while they watch their loved ones being butchered in front of them? Folks need to get real. Nobody here is Clint Eastwood in "Gran Torino". Claiming you will stand and fight with honor without considering how things would really go down is just a pipe dream.


As Sam said, the real fight we can win is right now. We still live in a country where people in charge are there because we voted them into that position or they were chosen by others we voted in. Most of those same folks like their job well enough that they will continue to do as the majority of their constituents want. If we fall outta that majority and the rules change, we will not be Martyrs in the war for our God given rights....we will just be criminals.

Along with the chest pounding and bravado, folks are assuming that their "fight to the end" will be a glorious one and they will be immortalized to their family and the world. Truth is, odds are almost non-existent that total gun confiscation will ever happen, and if it does, our country will have no resemblance to what it is now. Long before you die with your "cold dead hands" wrapped around your last firearm in resistance to our present government, you will probably be killed over food, water, a way to heat your home, or another individual wanting your weapons.

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England has pretty much total confiscation. It's not Mad Max over there.

I agree the "cold dead hands" stuff is just bumper sticker fodder.

I'll give up my guns if I deem it necessary to the health/welfare and safety of my family.

On the other hand some times you need to draw the line. Plenty of folks stood up to Hitler and history doesn't put them all down as common criminals. Every tyrant is different and they come in different ways.

I'd say the best advice would be to hide any affected weapons. I understand you couldn't enjoy them any more however the basic concern is gun prohibition/confiscation occurs before a people are rounded up arrested and enslaved. If the jews would have procured and hidden firearms they could have resisted. The French resistance in the Second World War couldn't have had enough firearms. To fight and die at the point of confiscation doesn't make sense but neither does turning in the weapons. Their is also the probability of an unpopular ban being overturned at a later time. Fighting and dying to prevent a specific gun control law may not be worth it but having the weapons available in case it's you or your kind being rounded off like the jews in Europe years ago. I am a young man with a family. My obligation is to be there for them as long as I can. If the govt tries to take some or all of my guns well then they will be missing and ill fight the political fight. If god forbid a corrupted government comes to round up family, me and my neighbors well then missing guns may magically re appear.

It all depends on the individual and if they prepared for such an event . the obvious most non lethal thing to do, is to move, if all else fails.
Moving is the ultimate freedom expression which hurts no one. You can live someware you hate being because of restrictions placed upon you, or leave.
There is no reason "at this point" for nay violence to be concerned with while that option is open to you.If we all founs ourselves in a position where we were in a dozen pro gun states, they would feel the economic effects of the mistake they made.
I would rather be at peace someplace, than at war someplace else. It may eventually be unavoidable, but not now. We are starting to influence the Govt. enough to let this go by with minor things that end up sticking, and those will get repealled. For now I would sit tight and start looking for a different state to live in if things get worse.

I took an oath. Don't see that I have a choice in the matter except how to implement it.

Some of you fellas here don't get it by your comments here.....forget about your guns, they'll be comming for your Rights as an American if that happens......firearms are only the tools to preserve those rights if necessary.

Just consider for one moment what a Government can do to it's citizenry if they don't have the ability to stand up for themselves.......just look at the Middle East.

If it comes to this and you don't take up arms then you have no business owning guns. This was the reason our founding fathers put this right at the top of the constitution. To enable us to stand up to tyranny. They did not put in the 2nd amendment that we can have guns to hunt, target shoot, or whatever you do with them. I think they made it pretty clear. Every debate on gun control that comes up people here want to say that its to prevent tyranny. Then these same guys say they may just lay down and give them up? I say those people should go to your next local "gun buy back" and go ahead and turn them in now. If you wont make a stand if it comes to this then you will cower away from any and every thing the rest of your life and not worthy of the freedom you have that our forefathers fought and died to give us.

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Indeed, being armed is ultimately meaningless if you're not prepared to put your fate in your own hands and make the irrevocable decision to fight to the death in the defense of your liberty and sovereignty.

Organizing letter writing campaigns and making financial contributions to advocacy groups is all well and good, however, should possibilities for a peaceful reconciliation of differences regarding the fundamental Constitutional rights of all Americans be exhausted, employing nonpeaceful means and other necessary measures can not be off the table.

If it is off the table, then this is all just an empty charade and a joke when you get right down to it, and we really needn't have arms or a Second Amendment.

IF there is national registration, followed by an order of confiscation of certain weapons of a certain class, there will first be a call for, to quote Feinstein, "Mr and Mrs. American, turn 'em in!" Many will do just that, and life will go on.

This will be repeated for class after class of firearems until there are only a few type that may be legally possessed. Then 2A will be repealed (if it hasn't already been reinterpreted by SCOTUS so as to be meaningless in modern society).

During all of this, there will be increasing incidents of DHS/ATF searches and seizures of illegal weapons in the course of criminal investigations. Most of these will probably go down as Sam1911 suggests: the search and seizure will take place separte from the arrest which will be made while the suspect is away from home; at work, dropping the kids off at school, "routine" traffic stop. If reportedm the MSM will certainly report these incidents putting the "suspect" in the worst light possible and most of the general public won't even take notice, and life will go on.

If the suspect resists, it will be considered by MSM as evidence of guilt, there will be inferences of a history of criminal activity, mental illness, extremism, racism, hate speech, etc. The general public will say, Good! another nut job off the streets." And live will go on.

By the time they get around to coming for the guns of ordinary citizens, we will be seen as "just another nut job" if anyone notices at all. And life will go on.

There will be no "One if by land and two if by sea", no Paul Revere spreading the alarm. There will be no muster of the local militia to resist the march of tyranny. Say what you will about what you will do, but if we do it individually and independently, we will each be just one more nut job among many. For everyone else, live will go on.

As Sam says, the time to stop it is NOW, before it goes that far. Because as Ben Franklin said, "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

Skiing, Social security is the right of Americans who paid into it all their lives. I paid for 200 employees for 25 years, and i'll be dogone if someone tells me me it's an entitlement. If that was the case then I shold have been asked if I chose to donate to it.
The "free for all", people who never put anything in is where the problem lies not the good hardworking people who paid their taxes all their lives. Why should an unwed mother get $144,000 a year with 5 kids out of wedlock with 5 different fathers, and get a free house, food stamps and free electricity, out of the money that I paid in?
That is fact, the "obamacare" and general welfare and public assistance is a scam made in order to support people who never worked a day in their life.
This is how he got into office, forget every other issue, it was the folks who want that Obama money that got him the edge.
So don't make it sound that honest business people who paid in for 30 or 40 years got anything for free. If they want to just give me back what I paid in plus interest, I would have millions of extra dollars laying around.
And we are not going to lose our rights as some have mentioned, before that happens there will be a civil war.The price will be too high,as we are seeing now, as I sit and watch CNN, they are trying domestic terrorism on the gun manufacturers. Stopping the banks that do business with from continuing to be involved with Ruger and S&W, what we need to do is start pulling money out of those banks instead of worrying about what will happen later. I will pull out all of my familys money ffrom BOA if they continue to align themselves with this administrations efforts to attack the manufacturers as should everyone who is like minded. They will end up hurting themselves.
We have a chance to stop this outright harrasment right now, if we let off the gas then it's our own fault.
They already have shifted down into second gear on the issues. We need then to turn off the engine completely.
The letters and emails are working, keep at it and we will beat them again, politicians jump ship when things don't go their way, they have too many other things to worry about, and guns right now are not a popular thing to go after.

The American Patriots spilled their blood for freedom in 1774. If it happens today, i wonder if Americans are willing to sacrifice blood for that same freedom. That is a $64 milion dollar question.

At this moment, there another thread posted on this forum regarding a DHS raid which seized the collection of an Albuquerque collector of Curios and Antiques. As of the time of the report, no charges had been filed but there were "rumors" of import/export violations for which DHS is hoping to find evidence.

This is how it will be done. One at a time.

After Lexington and Concord, the British returned to Boston and awoke the next morning to find the city surrounded by 15,000 armed militia. How many "patriots" are marching to Albuquerque? Is anybody here headed that way? I didn't think so. Because one incident involving a stranger is not enough to spur action. Beside, he might be guilty so best we just wait and see. But we won't see because we will go back to our daily lives and forget. Until the next time.

Fighting in the streets is a waste of time and lives. If it comes to that go for them and their leaders where they live, be a guerrilla.

I don't believe I have changed much in my personal beliefs over the almost 60 year course of my life and if I am to become a criminal it is not because I have changed something but that those making the laws have made my philosophy illegal. Our founders and those who were in positions of leadership during the Revolutionary War put not only themselves at risk, but also their families, property, and futures so that we have been able to enjoy the fruits of the seeds they planted 236 years ago. Most lost some and, as the saying goes, some gave all including their fortunes and families in order that we might squander it away over self-interest and envy. I know where I stand, and I believe most of my family will be standing beside me in spirit as I am with them even though we are scattered across this great land. As Ben Franklin purportedly said, "If we don't hang together we will certainly be hung separately". If even a quarter of the population resists an unlawful (when judged in the light of Constitutional and natural law) order the country can be saved as the government does not have the manpower or legal capacity to deal with that number of individuals.

The flip side is to harrumph but docilely comply with whatever nonsense they spew as we all form lines to the gas chambers, in a metaphorical way. I refuse to sacrifice the miracle my ancestors gave me that calmly.

It is our duty still to endeavor to avoid war; but if it shall actually take place, no matter by whom brought on, we must defend ourselves. If our house be on fire, without inquiring whether it was fired from within or without, we must try to extinguish it.
Thomas Jefferson

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I think there was wisdom in some of our countries founders that will always stand the test of time.

Why not listen to the voice of experience, it makes it clear that 100% do not have to resist. A very small percentage can bring things to a grinding halt.



“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

jimbo555 said:

For me it's not tyranny if it's a law passed by congress. An executive order is something different.

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Laws that get passed in Congress are still capable of being unconstitutional and still capable of being overturned. An unconstitutional law should be disobeyed, and it is your obligation to do so.

The congress of New York State just passed a law that many people consider unconstitutional. Are you saying that you would give up your rights and refuse to fight for them just because congress passed an unconstitutional law? Where would we be if we didn't call tyranny out for what it is?

NeuseRvrRat said:

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This IS SPARTA!!!

Seriously, I'll either fight and come back with my S&W Shield, or on it.

It is in the interest of all parties to concentrate on the perpetrators of gun violence, it is in none of our best interest to punish lawful gun owners.

The idea that military or LEO force can settle all disputes is never correct. Look at the war going on in Mexico, just a few people have managed to cripple any sense of justice and create wide scale disruption.

We don't want this here, and I hope that all of us understand why it won't work.

The military and LEO are composed entirely of citizens and they are not devoid of their sense of justice. I suspect they may bring things to a halt long before some politicos come to their senses.

History has already shown us what will happen if we give in or give up. Labor camps, gulags, prisions, death camps, relocation centers, re-education camps, call them what you want but the end result will be the same. If you mistakenly think this is about guns, you are being foolish.

The psych-ops campaign has already started and it is working since you already are thinking of what you should or shouldn't do. There is no doubt as to what their goal is, now you need to decide what your goal should be. That will determine what you will or will not do in the future.

It is said that "those that do not learn from history are condemed to repeat it."

Jim

I am a veteran that served faithfully in the late 60's and early 70's. ... I helped raise a wonderful family. I have a great wife, kids, and grandkids. I also live in and understand what a fabulous country America is. The best parts of my life have already been lived. I did my job in life for my God, family, and country. I have a family that fully realizes who I am and what I believe in. I will try to protect the Constitution of the United States and I will do that with my life. I know and understand that as does my family. Yes, I will stand and fight.

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It is essential that such values are passed along to subsequent generations. Yet our success rate seems to decline with each generation.

No one has yet mentioned Canada's registration scheme? The one that coughed and died because of massive non-compliance?

If some significant percentage of gun owners refused to comply with registration/confiscation, some with the support of local law enforcement*, the Feds would be at a complete loss to enforce the laws. They can't arrest millions of us even if they wanted to. Not only is it not necessary to "go out in a blaze of glory," it would probably be counterproductive.

*Based on the sheriffs who have pledged not to aid in the enforcement of new gun laws.

There is an elitist element in this country that would love to turn this country into a dictatorship "without calling it that". Eventually every great society goes through tests of time, and only thrive if they can adjust.
But adjusting doesn't include changing the principles that the Democracy was founded upon..
When men such as those who would like to take complete power, indeed try to do so, you either roll over, or roll over them. We have a large percentage of the population, who just go along, with whoever makes their life less complicated. They use this to maneuver within the framework, ever expanding their interpretation of the Rules, "Constitution", until they have changed it to suit their needs.
We must at various points put our foot down and stop this kind of behavior, regardless of how inconvenient it is to do so at the time, or we risk lose our Country to those who chose to be in charge with no accountability.
This I believe is one of those times.
We saw how in just a few short weeks, we were able to mobilize enough of our patriots to stop what looked like a sure fire ban on everything we held dear. Now we should take the time to push this forward to where it doesn't come back to bite us in the butt. It's put up or shut up time.
Keep the letters and emails, organize rally’s and educate people so they understand that there are those who are using this as a vehicle to disarm the population so that if they do decide to go further, there will be no one to stop them.
Having worked as a DOD subcontractor, "when I was a young man" at a defense plant, I wondered why we sold so many countries jet planes and missile systems etc.My dad woke me up and explained, it's all about the "spare parts" we can sell them all the fighters they want, but we control all the parts that keep them flying , and train their pilots, "who we never trained like we do our own", granted this was 40 yrs ago, but the same holds true today, we need to watch the supply trail, they are going after the manufacturers, and ammo people next, if they control that then the weapons are useless.
We must be vigilant on all fronts, not just assault weapons, that was just a foot in the door, they have plans for us unless we make a clear statement "now" that we are not going to allow this to happen.

It is essential that such values are passed along to subsequent generations. Yet our success rate seems to decline with each generation.

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Remember that every generation has felt this way about the next. Don't lose heart.

There will be no blue helmets or black helicopters. They will not come in body armor carrying battle rifles. They will come in suits carrying pieces of paper—search warrants, arrest warrants, subpoenas—all lawful orders of the court. The 2nd Amendment may find itself trumped by the 14th.

The right to keep and bear arms may be protected, but the right to use arms is heavily proscribed and it is illegal to use force to resist a lawful court order. If found guilty of doing so, you may lose any remaining right to keep and bear.

But, none of this happens overnight. There is no armed insurrection so there is no need for immediate action by the govt. on a broad scale. They have time on their side. As noted, we seem to lose ground with each passing generation.

The title of this thread is "Cold, dead finger. Really?" and asks who is prepared to go that far to resist confiscation. But the most draconian federal proposal we face, (AWB 2013) says nothing about confiscation. It bans a class of weapons; says you may not import, manufacture or sell that class of weapons. But it says you may keep the ones you already have. You may not sell them, give them away, leave them to your heirs, but you may keep them until you die. Then the government will take them...from your cold, dead fingers. I don't think that is what Heston had in mind, but it is what he promised.

This idea of fighting for liberty is terrifying. It should scare the crap out of anyone, I know it scares the crap out of me. The "cold dead hands" scenario would be a horrifying thing to happen to say the least. Most would go quietly, reguardless of what they say. In the Revolutionary War everyone wasn't on the same page, if confiscation did happen you can bet it would be the same way.

Would some fight? Yes, I'm sure some would. They would be branded as terrorists, cultists, psycos, and many other things by our media. Both the "give up" and "cold dead hands" groups would do it for the same reasons though. Mostly to protect their families and their way of life.

A brave few fought in the Revolutionary War so many could take part in freedom. Were these courageous men scared? Hell yes they were! Facing down a line of expertly trained British regulars and their cavalry with a musket and a bunch of fellow farmers would make me want to crap my pants. It doesn't mean they were lesser men. They fought because it kept getting worse and knew it would only continue to do so. It was fear that drove them. The fear of their lives and their families lives getting worse was higher than the fear of fighting and possibly dying. The British underestimated what fear could do. The British had very little fear, they were the greatest army on the planet. What could a few farmers really do? Apparently a lot.

I don't know what I would do, I wouldn't say if I did. All I know is when people are cornered, like animals, they are dangerous. I couldn't harbor any animosity towards either camp of thought. They are doing what they think is right for their families. Last time I checked free thought is, well, free. I refuse to judge either camp, as should no one else. Take care of your own family. Be active and vocal in your local, state, and national politics. I can only say freedom isn't free, it has to be fought for. Verbally first, physically as a last resort.