Why no bolt gun in 7.62x39 ,or 5.45×39mm?

Jimmy... You can get shilens for 400 in any chamber they offer. You can buy a barrel blank for .308 and have it chambered and threaded.. too easy man. I say fairly inexpensively..

an Ershaw barrel blank is 139. Any smith should be able to thread the shank and chamber the barrel.

Any smith should be able to thread the shank and chamber the barrel.

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Cost of gunsmithing work + $30-$40 round trip shipping and insurance? Doesn't add up to inexpensive. A finished Savage barrel in 7.62x39 makes sense,putting $300-$500 into a $3-$400 rifle doesn't. I'm not wanting a custom benchrest rifle. I want an economical rifle in an that intermediate cartridge. A Savage Edge,Stevens Model 200,Mossberg ATR or the like would fill the bill nicely. ETA,there are no smiths in my area. It would have to be shipped.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-361106.html

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-362501.html

If you want one than build it yourself like I did and stop listening to the naysayers.

More of my x39 exploits
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-405210.html

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-431995.html

Anyways a hand loaded 7.62x39 in a quality bolt gun with a good barrel will shoot every bit as good as any other cartridge in the same firearm. Far far outstripping the limited accuracy potential of an SKS or AK. My best groups to date were from my 7.62x39 Stevens 200 linked to above. Most 5 shot groups were in the sub .4" range at 100 with really good ones dipping into the .2s. Sorry but your best shooting SKS would be really struggling to produce groups less than 20x that size

Suggesting to Savage that a batch of Axis rifles be done in this caliber would be something I suspect would work. And the attractive price for the Axis rifle fits in neatly with the cheap ammo supplies available at present and for the foreseeable future. If you folks think this is a good idea you should send off emails to Savage to suggest this.

RC Arms, please do get back to us with results from that ammo shot from your SKS. I'm both keen to know as well as to find out if I'm talking out of my hat or not....

This picture depicts a 20rd box of "monarch" 123g fmj ammunition from academy that at the time I got for less than $3 a box



Same ammo @300m

Akelroy, the .30-30 is more powerful than the 7.62x39, not less...

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Really? Hornady's chart shows they are practically identical. The .30-30 delivers
1296 ft lbs at 100, 858 ft lbs at 200 for the 150 core-lokd that most folks shoot, 1180 ft lbs at 100 and 882 ft lbs at 200 for the 7.62x39 123 gr.

The .30 WIN has the edge at the muzzle, but the little Russian matches it at even modest hunting distances. Deer & hogs are not going to tell the difference between them.

You seem to take it that they are flying off the shelves faster than CZ can crank them out.

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I don't "take it that way", that's actually the truth for all CZ products right now. That is from the company itself, BTW. Is OK if you don't believe me - I'm used to it.

Bushpilot, I have stated many times that I am no great shakes as a rifleman, and that I dabble in reloading not like a benchrest shooter, but as a hobbyist having fun. It's OK - I've met a lot of people who are far better shots than I am, and it's always great to watch them work.

BCRider, my vz-58 hasn't shot a factory round in some time. It's not as accurate as the 527 in my hands, but it can do some decent work. This is the same cast load I use in the video at the bottom of this post.



This is an older pic of a target I shot with the vz-58 at 200 yards. The groups are identified with markings. This was unmagnified using an EOTech 1x red dot.



IIRC, that was the 123 grain Hornaday spire point load, if that interests you.

i keep saying, but it seems to not be heard, if you don't like a bolt gun in 7.62x39mm, that's cool - I don't have any use for 220 Swift or 7mm Mag, but would certainly not mind seeing pictures of great targets shot with them, or game taken down with them.
I have three hobbys - shooting, reloading and bullet casting, and the great thing is they all compliment each other.
But what I am saying is I have a bolt action rifle in 7.62x39mm, I like it, I have fun with it, and it's just too darn cool to not shoot. The range trip I did when it came with the new stock I shot every scrap of ammo I had, loving every minute of it. You can watch the following video, and criticize my shooting all you want, but you can't argue the facts that I am having fun AND I will actually show what I can do, however pathetic it may be in other's estimations. That's OK, it's part of the internet game.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcvGcs8neeg

BTW, I should state if anyone down in Southern AZ way who is a better shot than me would like to try the 527 or the vz-58, it can be arranged.

Armoredman, that's a DARN nice slicked up project rifle you have. I can see why you like it.

My own "7.62x39" is the good ol' .30-30. I've got two lever rifles that I feed and I'd like to add a bolt action at some point. I could see doing something like you did with your quick reload stock if I can find a rifle that uses an easily switched box mag.

A co-worker bought one of the few Ruger 77s in 7.62 M43. It misfired too often with typical iron curtain ammo, so we wrassled it into submission and put in a Wolff Blitzschnell mainspring. That popped them, by gum. But it made the bolt lift awful hard. Maybe we should have used the 24 lb spring instead of the 28, but we didn't want to have to do it twice if the 24 wasn't enough.

It is kind of like the Internet Cries for a modern 7.62x25 pistol. Who wants to tool up for a new gun so you can shoot foreign surplus? At least the rifle was doable on existing platforms so there are some out there if you are patient and a bit extravagant.

I've got one of the .30-30 bolt actions, a Remington 788. It turned out to be not much fun for my style of shooting, so it will be on the market as soon as the friend it is loaned to buys a new .270 to replace her stolen Browning.

The .308 is definitely a versatile cartridge, but definitely not well suited for the role of youth rifle that attracted me to the 527M in 7.62x39mm. Both my kids can handle the 7.62x39 bolt gun exceptionally well, but if I was to hand them my Ruger 77/308 custom, it would be an entirely different story.

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Well, if I had a kid to start on a rifle, I could load my .308 down to .30-30/7.62x39 level easily enough. But, I'd probably start them with what I started with, my grandpa's old .257 Roberts, a tack driver with little recoil and it CAN reach out there. Shot my first deer with it at age 11.

..
So will I MCgunner along with all the other calibers that I currently have. I want to add a bolt gun in 7.62x39 to that number,preferrably a Savage.

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Me too. My SKSs are all I need in the caliber, though. Actually, I don't NEED those. Need has nothing to do with it. If you WANT a bolt gun in 7.62x39, just do it. It don't really need to be a logical purchase unless your wife is involved in the decision.

If you WANT a bolt gun in 7.62x39, just do it. It don't really need to be a logical purchase unless your wife is involved in the decision.

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I would do it today but the lack of reasonably priced barrels has it at a standstill. I already have the tools(for Savage barrel change). My wife never interferes with my gun activities. She joins in.

You seem to take it that they are flying off the shelves faster than CZ can crank them out.

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armoredman said:

I don't "take it that way", that's actually the truth for all CZ products right now. That is from the company itself, BTW. Is OK if you don't believe me - I'm used to it.

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Let me try to explain this another way. I don't doubt that there's a shortage of 527s. However, I don't think that the shortage of CZ 527s exists because CZ is cranking them out like crazy while there's more demand than they can possibly meet. I suspect that it's because CZ is using the available capacity to turn out things that are more popular, like 455s and 550s.

Here's a similar situation at Hornady. They've suspended - not dropped - production of large number of their slower moving products in order to concentrate on the more popular lines. Hornady, God bless 'em, makes a lot of bullets and ammo that are only marginally popular. That works fine when demand is normal, but they'd be crazy to retool and crank out a bunch of bullets for the 9mm Makarov in the hope that somebody buys them in the next year or so when they can't make enough 9mm Luger bullets to fill the outstanding orders they have right now. So they are forced to consolidate their lines. Hats off to them for making as many types of bullets and ammo as they do and for clearly communicating what's happening.

Anyway that's my guess as to what's happening. I do know that during the years I worked in a gunshop I sold lots of 452s and a few 550s, but nobody ever expressed the slightest interest in a bolt action 7.62x39.

I would do it today but the lack of reasonably priced barrels has it at a standstill. I already have the tools(for Savage barrel change). My wife never interferes with my gun activities. She joins in.

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Savages are great for cheap caliber conversion. I've been thinkin' I might "need" a .338 more than my 7 mag Savage 110.

Yeah, my wife gives me no grief, either, since I don't nag her about all her quilting stuff. Never seen a woman with so much fabric, always buying more. But, then, I have 21 long guns and 26 handguns, so it evens out.

my even more anemic .30-30's

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Really? Hornady's chart shows they are practically identical. The .30-30 delivers
1296 ft lbs at 100, 858 ft lbs at 200 for the 150 core-lokd that most folks shoot, 1180 ft lbs at 100 and 882 ft lbs at 200 for the 7.62x39 123 gr.

The .30 WIN has the edge at the muzzle, but the little Russian matches it at even modest hunting distances. Deer & hogs are not going to tell the difference between them.

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AKElroy, You said the 30/30 was "more anemic" than the 7.62x39 and it simply is not. I didn't say it was a great deal more powerful than the 7.62x39 but equal to or less than it certainly isn't. The 30/30, even when handicapped with a flat tip bullet, has an definite advantage at short and medium range, almost 500 foot pounds at the muzzle. Shoot pointed Leverevolution ammo out of a lever gun or pointed reloads out of a bolt action 30/30 and the 7.62x39 will never catch up, the 30/30 will just pull further ahead. Plus, the 30/30 is able to handle a lot more bullet weight than the Soviet round, about 30%..

MCgunner said:

Savages are great for cheap caliber conversion. I've been thinkin' I might "need" a .338 more than my 7 mag Savage 110.

Yeah, my wife gives me no grief, either, since I don't nag her about all her quilting stuff. Never seen a woman with so much fabric, always buying more. But, then, I have 21 long guns and 26 handguns, so it evens out.

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MC, give Jim Briggs at NSS a call (as in telephone), he'll set you up with everything you need for swapping out a Savage. Good guy and his wife is nice too.

If it were me, instead of 7.62x39, I'd go .300 BLK. Match ammo available, and you can roll your own from .223/5.56x45. Don't even have to change the bolts

Bushpilot, I have stated many times that I am no great shakes as a rifleman, and that I dabble in reloading not like a benchrest shooter, but as a hobbyist having fun. It's OK - I've met a lot of people who are far better shots than I am, and it's always great to watch them work.

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Armoredman, I didn't mean to imply that I was being critical of your 200 yard groups. I think they were actually pretty good. I just meant that all of the CZ rifle's I've had and seen in other chamberings have all been really exceptional so it shouldn't come as a surprise that your 7.62x39s CZ shot well with handloads. Do you know what the bore diameter is on your CZ? What do you size your cast bullets to?

Range report on my 527M with some accuracy results using Barnaul and Golden Bear 123g JHP bulk ammo.

http://rcarms.com/106.html

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RCArms, that was an interesting test report. Seems it averaged about 2-3 inch groups, not too bad, a little better than an SKS. I've seen and shot some SKSs that would do about 4 inch groups with iron sights and good surplus ammo, about 3 inches with a decent scope and mount. However, after looking at the shapes of the groups you shot, the way the two groups strung out, one vertically and one horizontally, I wouldn't be surprised if with a little work, the rifle and ammo might be capable of averaging better, maybe more like the 1 3/4 -2 in groups. Just out of curiosity, I would have liked to have seen a group shot with some high quality, American made, factory hunting ammo....

The bore diameter is .311 on the 527M. I size my cast bullets to .311, as well, as odd as that may sound, and it seems to work OK. So far.

It is nice to have something around chambered in a low pressure, mild recoiling round. Something powerful enough to blow up a water jug or mist a rotting grapefruit you found in the bottom of the fridge, but won't leave a bruise or have muzzle blast that makes it feel like you've been punched in the chest a little.

Not that the harder kicking rounds aren't fun. Just not for as many rounds.

Back when I was shooting the .39 cz the most accurate factory ammunition was the 154g wolf soft point.

In none of my rifles was American ammunition even moderately accurate and worst yet like all metric cartridges loaded in America it was laughably anemic.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-409365.html

With hand loads the little cz was solidly in the sub 1.5" range.

Back when I was shooting the .39 cz the most accurate factory ammunition was the 154g wolf soft point.

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What do you think of the 154 Wolf stuff as 100 yard or less deer load?

The bore diameter is .311 on the 527M. I size my cast bullets to .311, as well, as odd as that may sound, and it seems to work OK. So far.

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Have you tried reloading jacketed .308 diameter bullets in it?

I paid less than that in shipping a finished barrel, insured, from Jim Briggs at NSS. If you're paying 30-40 round trip with shipping.. you could possibly want to shop around.

Why would you be ordering the blanks? Have your smith order the blank and get it done.

As to the 3-400 dollar rifle.. thats your call. I've dropped 380 on barrel, nut and lug for my savage, another 6 in tuning the trigger, another 118 on the stock, 30 on the pillars, etc...

If you're looking for a hunting gun, why NOT get a good barrel. I'm not talking bench rest match barrel or anything, but possibly something a step above factory if you're going to swap out anyways?

That said, Jim briggs at northlander might be able to beat that 400 dollar price on your barrel if you talk to him. Going chrome moly vs. stainless will drop the price a little more.

The axis uses the same barrel shank as the 10 series. I've seen stevens 200's go for 200-250 locally (may differ where you are at...). 600 dollar gun with a match barrel.. or a 500-600 dollar CZ.. looks like your price for entry is the same either way. You can also get a barrel made up for a remington pretty easy too..