Armed Citizen stopped church shooting in Texas by shooting at suspect perhaps killing him

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Tragic. Apparently he was using a Ruger AR. An armed neighbor shot at him with his own rifle, perhaps wounding him, and ending the rampage. The armed citizen then chased the suspect. Police believe that the armed citizen either killed the suspect or the suspect comitted suicide after fleeing. Suspect is Devon Patrick Kelley and may have once been in the Air Force.

This tragedy could have been much worse if it wasn't for an armed citizen exercising his 2nd Amendment rights and saving lives.


https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?forums/general-gun-discussions.2/create-thread



Texas Shooting Death Toll Confirmed At 26; Shooter Was Stopped By Onlooker

by Greg Evans November 5, 2017 4:12pm

Texas authorities have confirmed a death toll of 26 at today’s Baptist church shooting, the largest in the state’s history, according to Governor Greg Abbott. The number does not include the shooter, who was chased by a church neighbor and found dead after crashing his car.

Officials said the shooter was stopped and disarmed by an onlooker, then fled the scene, crashing his car. He was found shot dead inside the vehicle but police could not immediately say whether his death was self-inflicted.
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NO! The church shooting was not stopped by the local citizen. The church shooting was over and the shooter had exited the church. The shooter was engaged AFTER the church shooting.



Also, concealed carry is allowed in Texas churches and so this was not a GFZ (by law) and there is no indication that it was posted 30.06 or 30.07 against concealed or open carry.
 
Guns at church here in VA kinda reads like a liberal state, something along the lines of you can't carry unless you feel a need to.

I have no idea of the laws in Texas but in general engaging a suspect after a crime has been committed is probably not a good idea, much less chasing after them.

Not real clear at this point if the Samaritan had any impact on this situation other than after the fact, or if it was legal.

Was it the right thing to do morally? Probably.
 
Good Ol' Boy said:
Guns at church here in VA kinda reads like a liberal state, something along the lines of you can't carry unless you feel a need to.

I have no idea of the laws in Texas but in general engaging a suspect after a crime has been committed is probably not a good idea, much less chasing after them.

Not real clear at this point if the Samaritan had any impact on this situation other than after the fact, or if it was legal.

Was it the right thing to do morally? Probably.
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Yes, thanks for the moral clarity in pointing out that it was the right thing to do. No jury in Texas, nor any DA in Texas for that matter, is going to have a problem with a private citizen chasing this guy and putting him down permanently.
 
Absolutely! The local citizen did well, but it is important to keep information correct.

caribou said:
Engaged after the church shooting, but was he done?

We will never know how far he would have gone, or for how long.

Armed ,lawful citizens rock.
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The church service usually had about 50 or so attendees (based on news reports) and it sounds like he has shot about as many people as he could shoot (51 casualties plus others that got away unharmed). There is no reason to believe that the church shooting aspect wasn't over as he had left the church. However, he was most certainly still a threat to anyone else in the immediate area. The citizen with the rifle did well!
 
CWP holders wanting to carry in a church must receive "express permission" from appropriate church officials. According to our State Law Enforcement Division (SLED), express permission means written permission.

Please keep this in mind if visiting from another state and carrying under a reciprocity agreement.
 
Plan2Live said:
CWP holders wanting to carry in a church must receive "express permission" from appropriate church officials. According to our State Law Enforcement Division (SLED), express permission means written permission.

Please keep this in mind if visiting from another state and carrying under a reciprocity agreement.
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Please show me where it is written that express means written. I must have overlooked that.
 
Double Naught Spy said:
Absolutely! The local citizen did well, but it is important to keep information correct.



The church service usually had about 50 or so attendees (based on news reports) and it sounds like he has shot about as many people as he could shoot (51 casualties plus others that got away unharmed). There is no reason to believe that the church shooting aspect wasn't over as he had left the church. However, he was most certainly still a threat to anyone else in the immediate area. The citizen with the rifle did well!
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Information keeps evolving as we learn more. Initial reports can be wrong.
 
It's my understanding that the shooter was dishonorably discharged from the Air Force.

If he was dishonorably discharged, he could not own a firearm--another example of a law that did not prevent gun violence.
 
dbp said:
Please show me where it is written that express means written. I must have overlooked that.
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I can't. But I can tell you that back when I was teaching the CWP classes this question came up in a CWP instructor's meeting and this is the advice SLED gave the instructors present at that meeting. Just like there is nothing in writing that says the under the steering column holsters don't fit the spirit of SC laws but SLED advised us to discourage those.
 
Plan2Live said:
I can't. But I can tell you that back when I was teaching the CWP classes this question came up in a CWP instructor's meeting and this is the advice SLED gave the instructors present at that meeting. Just like there is nothing in writing that says the under the steering column holsters don't fit the spirit of SC laws but SLED advised us to discourage those.
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Thank you. Fair enough. I knew it didn't have to be written, but I agree that it is a good idea to have it on record.
This is how it works at my church. Anyone carrying must have a current CWP on record in the church office.And Pastor makes the decision on who carries under those conditions. Of course we also have current or former LEO that carry.
 
In Texas:

A license holder may carry a handgun anywhere in Texas that is not expressly prohibited by law. Those prohibitions appear in several provisions of the Texas Penal Code.

For example, §46.035, Texas Penal Code prohibits carrying of handguns and other weapons:

...
  • On the premises of a church, synagogue, or other place of worship (if effective notice of prohibition is given per Penal Code Chapter 30)
 
The moderators need to close this thread so that we're not continuing a thread that leads off with fake news. Someone can then put up a post with some factual content.
 
The applicable quotes of the Texas Penal Code:

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER

§46.035(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed or carried in a shoulder or belt holster, on or about the license holder’s person:

...

(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

...

Further down:

§46.035(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06 or 30.07.
 
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This Thread is becoming a rolling train wreck. I really only have this to add.

Most of the reports I've read say that the actual time the shooter was in the building shooting was very short. I'm not sure that anybody in the congregation could have got a gun out in time to truly affect the outcome.

I think they would have just about had to have armed guards on post at the door who basically engage the guy as soon as he got out of the car to have changed the outcome

Having said that whether the armed citizen "stopped" the shooting or not I think the fact that he was able to grab a weapon and engage the shooter before he got off the premises is huge.
 
Redacted said:
It's my understanding that the shooter was dishonorably discharged from the Air Force.

If he was dishonorably discharged, he could not own a firearm--another example of a law that did not prevent gun violence.
Click to expand...


Are you sure that if you’re dishonorably discharged you can’t own a gun? That doesn't sound right. I can see for domestic assault, but just a DD? There are a lot of things you can be DD’d for.
 
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hdwhit said:
The moderators need to close this thread so that we're not continuing a thread that leads off with fake news. Someone can then put up a post with some factual content.
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No need to close this thread. That means you couldn’t post any news story until well after the fact because information and facts change as the story evolves. It’d be ridiculousness to close a thread because the full story isn’t out yet, that could take weeks or longer. We still don’t know the full story or all of the facts on the Las Vegas shooting.

Information keeps evolving as we learn more. Initial reports can be wrong.


You could post something now and 3 days later it’s found to incorrect. Doesn’t mean it was “fake news”. It was believed to be accurate at the time.

I’d say “fake news” is something that is known to be false or probably is false and still promoted as accurate.
 
The shooter had a "bad conduct discharge", which is different. I can't tell if that means he's legal to own or not, but it was domestic violence related so if he was legal to own that's really a huge failing on the part of the Military because he was abusing his wife and child and discharged for it, a civilian would lose his rights for far less (even just harsh language can get you a fourth degree domestic in my state and even though it's a misdemeanor you'd lose your rights)
 
toivo said:
It's question 11.g on the 4473: "Have you been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions?"
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Is it an automatic disqualifer then or just a box that makes them look further into it?
 
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