10 mm vs 44 Magnum Semi Auto Power

mcb said:

I have not owned a 44 Mag DE but am not unfamiliar with them having shot a friend's a few years ago. If I follow your previous comments you're saying that if we take my 240gr 44 Magnum load that is loaded within SAAMI specs (pressure, OAL, etc) that has a measured velocity of 1370 fps from a 6.5-inch Model 29 and fire it in a 6.0-inch Desert Eagle that I will loose nearly 200 fps and/or not function correctly? This seems hard to believe given my load is rather middle of the road for 44 Mag in both bullet weight and velocity. If this is true then the Desert Eagle is not much of a handgun if it is that finicky about ammo.

A quick search found me at least two online articles of people chronographing 44 Mag 240gr ammo through a 6.0-inch DE at over 1300 fps in one and 1430 fps in the second.

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I've seen a load chrono over 1600 fps from a Desert Eagle. Problem is it was a double charge my grandpa threw while not paying attention. He then had to have a gunsmith clean molten brass out of the firing pin channel and gas system. Pistol still functioned fine afterwards. The Desert Eagle can take full power ammo. But it has to be pretty hot to get it much over 1200 fps. My dad has been trying for years, and he has a reputation for liking loads a little hot. I could see maybe 1300 fps, but 1400 is a little generous. You're probably not SAAMI spec at that point. And the thing is, 1300 fps still doesn't give you a drastic increase in power over the 10mm Auto. I was being pretty conservative with the ballistics on the 10mm Auto as well. A 240 gr .429 caliber @ 1200 to 1300 fps isn't going to kill much any faster than a 220 gr .40 caliber @ 1100 to 1200 fps. The 10mm has at about 3/4 of anything the .44 Magnum can throw out of a Desert Eagle. Frontal area, mass, energy...however you want to define killing power. That is why the Desert Eagle just doesn't strike me as practical for anything but fireballs at the shooting range. Now if you want to throw the .44 in a 7 1/2 in barreled Blackhawk, that is a different story.

The point is, from experience, I can tell you anything getting much more than 1200 fps from a 6 inch barreled Desert Eagle probably isn't SAAMI spec.

MTMilitiaman said:

I've seen a load chrono over 1600 fps from a Desert Eagle. Problem is it was a double charge my grandpa threw while not paying attention. He then had to have a gunsmith clean molten brass out of the firing pin channel and gas system. Pistol still functioned fine afterwards. The Desert Eagle can take full power ammo. But it has to be pretty hot to get it much over 1200 fps. My dad has been trying for years, and he has a reputation for liking loads a little hot. I could see maybe 1300 fps, but 1400 is a little generous. You're probably not SAAMI spec at that point. And the thing is, 1300 fps still doesn't give you a drastic increase in power over the 10mm Auto. I was being pretty conservative with the ballistics on the 10mm Auto as well. A 240 gr .429 caliber @ 1200 to 1300 fps isn't going to kill much any faster than a 220 gr .40 caliber @ 1100 to 1200 fps. The 10mm has at about 3/4 of anything the .44 Magnum can throw out of a Desert Eagle. Frontal area, mass, energy...however you want to define killing power. That is why the Desert Eagle just doesn't strike me as practical for anything but fireballs at the shooting range. Now if you want to throw the .44 in a 7 1/2 in barreled Blackhawk, that is a different story.

The point is, from experience, I can tell you anything getting much more than 1200 fps from a 6 inch barreled Desert Eagle probably isn't SAAMI spec.

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25% more "oomph" is not negligible IMHO and given my experience with 44 mag I have a hard time believing you can't get more that 1200 fps from a 6-inch 44 mag handgun no matter what action it utilizes, especially one with no cylinder gap. Hornady Critical Defense 240gr JHP measured at 1430 fps from a 6.0 inch Desert Eagle according to this review: https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/desert-eagle-44-magnum-gun-review/ Hornady is a member of SAAMI so I doubt the Critical Defense is loaded hotter than SAAMI.

But even if we take your numbers:
A 240gr .429 bullet at 1300 fps vs a 220gr .400 bullet at 1200fps
The 44 Mag bullet has 28% more Kinetic Energy. 900 ft-lbs vs 703 ft-lbs
The 44 Mag bullet has 18% more Momentum 1.385 slug-ft/sec vs 1.172 slug-ft/sec
The 240gr 44 Mag only give up about 5% section density to the 220gr 10mm .186 vs .196

From my own work with both cartridges.
My favorite 10mm Auto load is a 200gr XTP going 1250 fps
My favorite 44 Mag load is a 240gr XTP going 1370 fps
My 44 Mag has 44% more KE and 31.5% more P and both are fired/measured from nearly identical revolvers, same barrel length and both suffer from a cylinder gap.

There is not much room to go up in my 10mm load at least not with that powder. I am already in somewhat uncharted territory with that load being longer than SAAMI OAL (no mag to worry about), over published powder charge weight, and slightly compressed. With my 44 Mag load I still have 0.2 gr to go before I hit the published limit for that powder and bullet.


The one thing the Desert Eagle has going for it is a great scope mount machined right into the barrel. Assuming you work up a good accurate load for you Desert Eagle you could probably really stretch the range out with a solid pistol scope on that mounting system.

I bought the G29 for self defense in the "jungle" concrete or wooded. It handles well, conceals well, and hits hard. I carry the Underwood 200gr JHP @1200 in a G20 I think. Not sure how it goes on a G29. I did like the ability to put a longer barrel in the G29 and longer magazine versus not shrinking a G20. G29 is easier to conceal I would presume.

10MM is a fine cartridge and is the bottom of the barrel for woods handgun hunting if you ask me. Medium/larger game. I live in the northeast. However I do support the vote for 44 Magnum. If you want to truly do handgun hunting. The heavier slugs at faster speeds will pay dividends. My father hunted a black bear with a Ruger Blackhawk. 44 Magnum, 8 3/4" barrel. Red dot mounted on the top. Unsure of brand, it was a while back. He told me nobody thought he would get the bear..he said one guy called him "Clint Eastwood" scoffing at the idea..sure enough..300grain bullet bullet..dropped right where he popped him. Which was pretty close, bear snuck up on him in the blind. Almost didnt see it.

I vote 44 Magnum for Hunting, revolver if you ask me. Show us pics of your DE if you take it hunting. I handle 10MM well, so just practice I suppose. Dry fire is your friend/grip training.

jmr40 said:

It's about barrel length. A 10mm will send a 200 gr hardcast from a 4 3/4" Glock barrel at 1300 fps. Which is about as good as you'll do with a 41 mag revolver with 200-210 gr bullets from a 4" or shorter barrel. Same thing when comparing 200 gr bullets fired from a 4" or shorter 357 mag revolver. A 44 mag firing 240 gr bullets will be in the 1150-1200 fps range from a 4" barrel. With those barrel lengths 10mm matches 41 and 357 mag performance and isn't as far behind 44 mag as most people think. I own 3" and 4" barreled 357 and 44 mag revolvers, but I trust my G29 pistol over any of them for large predator defense. If I were going to use it as a dedicated hunting handgun I'd carry my 4" 44 mag.

The numbers you see published for magnum revolver cartridges are all from 8" test barrels. The numbers you see published for semi-auto rounds are from 4.5" or 5" barrels. In the real world the numbers you see published for any of the semi-auto cartridges are much more realistic.

If you move up to a 6" or longer barrel then the magnum handgun cartridges start pulling away from what you can do with 10mm. But then size becomes a factor. If I need more than 4" in a handgun barrel I'd just as soon carry a short carbine length rifle. One edge that is going to go to the revolver regardless of barrel length is a better trigger pull than is commonly available on semi's. That means better accuracy regardless of range.

I've never seen any specific velocity tests with the DE. My personal thoughts are that if I wanted a 44 mag I'd stick to a revolver. Unless I just wanted the novelty of the DE.

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As much as I wish this were the case (how awesome would true 41mag power from 10mm be!) I have to disagree.
Underwood 200gr 10mm is 1250fps
Underwood 210gr 41mag is 1560fps

Buffalo bore 200gr 10mm is 1244fps
Buffalo bore 230gr 41mag is 1450fps
(They didn’t have a closer weight loaded)

When I compare loads I always reference these manufacturers because they always go to the true performance limits. The big box manufacturers load down for various reasons, from financial savings to legalities

MTMilitiaman said:

The point is, from experience, I can tell you anything getting much more than 1200 fps from a 6 inch barreled Desert Eagle probably isn't SAAMI spec.

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I don’t know what all you have tried, but I get a 240 gr. XTP to the high 1300s in my Desert Eagle with published loads using H110, or over 1400 with published AA#9 loads.

I haven’t tried L’il Gun in .44, but it has given higher velocities than the two aforementioned powders in other calibers for me, and I expect it would do as well here also.

mcb said:

The internet love to try to conflate 10mm Auto as 41 or 44 mag in a semi auto. But that comes from comparing modern high performance 10mm Auto ammo to cheap 41 or 44 mag ammo from the big three. When you push the cartridges to their SAAMI publish limits the 10mm Auto end up comparing reasonably well to 357 Magnum when both are loaded close to SAAMI MAP. Both top out in the mid 700's-lbs of energy with heavy for caliber bullets. 357 might eek out a bit more energy but 10mm will more easily push 200+ gr bullets

41 Mag and 44 Mag are a sizable step up from the previous two cartridges if your actually loading them to their full potential. 41 Mag fairly easily break 1000 ft-lbs and 44 Mag can exceed 1200 ft-lbs of muzzle energy when loaded close to SAAMI MAP with heavy for caliber bullets.

All of the above assumes similar barrel lengths that are longer than your thumb.

The 10mm Auto is a great cartridge that I have had great success with but it falls well short of the rimmed revolver cartridges who caliber starts with a 4.

Unless we are talking about 10mm Magnum then that gives 41 Mag a reasonable run for its money, but it's primarily a revolver cartridge too.

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The 10mm IAI Magnum was developed for the Automag IV, sure it's used these days in mostly wheelguns but that only due the fact that Automags aren't being made anymore, also i think the Wildey and LAR Grizzly was chambered for 10mm IAI Magnum IIRC.

Muzzle velocity and energy do nothing if you can’t connect with the target. With that in mind, the Desert Eagle has the accuracy potential similar to a T/C Contender or other single-shot pistol. For use as a hunting arm, I would feel comfortable taking a shot at a deer-sized critter a over 100 yards, shooting from a rested position with a scoped DE.

With a Glock or 1911 in 10mm, I’d cut that distance to probably no more than 35 yards.

That is me shooting and what I’m comfortable with. Those distances could be longer or shorter for someone else.

Jessesky said:

As much as I wish this were the case (how awesome would true 41mag power from 10mm be!) I have to disagree.
Underwood 200gr 10mm is 1250fps
Underwood 210gr 41mag is 1560fps

Buffalo bore 200gr 10mm is 1244fps
Buffalo bore 230gr 41mag is 1450fps
(They didn’t have a closer weight loaded)

When I compare loads I always reference these manufacturers because they always go to the true performance limits. The big box manufacturers load down for various reasons, from financial savings to legalities

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And that illustrates the ongoing problem with the "10mm is close enough to 41 or 44 mag that it doesn't matter" discussion very nicely. I consistently see comparisons of the slowest 41 mag loads being compared to the very fastest or loads with the most thump in 10mm auto. I feel that is an unrealistic and unfair comparison. We either need to compare the best of both or the worst of both, because if you go for even mid range 41 or 44 mag loads, they pull ahead of 10mm auto no problem. I have several loading manuals that ALL reflect this. Yes, there is a bit of overlap, where best meets worst, but that's it.

That isn't to say 10mm is a bad round. In fact it's one of my favorites as I feel it maxes out the ballistics to utility ratio in a semiauto handgun, making it adequate for defense against even black bear sized threats, and yet quick shots are perfectly doable with an appropriate gun and practice. But we also shouldn't make it out to be something other than what it is.

It's all about application and the intended target. 10mm may be perfectly fine for the OP's intended use.

GarrettJ said:

I don’t know what all you have tried, but I get a 240 gr. XTP to the high 1300s in my Desert Eagle with published loads using H110, or over 1400 with published AA#9 loads.

I haven’t tried L’il Gun in .44, but it has given higher velocities than the two aforementioned powders in other calibers for me, and I expect it would do as well here also.

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I think this is a good comment, because it points out that guns are individuals, and loads are subject to so many variables in components, that I don't think it's fair for anyone to make blanket assertions about samples of one. I believe your DE hits the velocities you mention. I also believe the other one in question does not. But the reasons behind those differences in performance are unknown. We have nothing in this thread that illustrates a trend.

MTMilitiaman said:

The Desert Eagle is optimized for the 240 gr .44 Magnum load and with its barrel length, getting it over 1200 fps is not easy.

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Man, how much gas is the port tapping on that thing? How big is the bore? Where is all the pressure going???

Okay I talked with my dad and he said that he did arrive at a load getting right at 1400 with a 240 gr Sierra, but it is over book max and just under red line on Quickload. And most of the factory ammo does get closer to 1200 fps than 1400 fps. This is from a Mk VII. I don't know if they did anything with the gas system in later versions that make it easier to get those higher velocities.

Even so, energy doesn't mean much in handguns. We all know they operate well below the velocity threshold for shock or cavitation damage. In handgun terms, a bullet with 80-some odd percent of the frontal area and 80-some odd percent of the mass probably has 80-some odd percent of the actual killing power. The Desert Eagle might be easier to scope, but the Glock is easier to shoot heavy for caliber cast lead with decent meplats. The Desert Eagle also costs twice as much initially and weighs twice as much. For the cost of the Desert Eagle, you could buy a Glock 20, have the slide cut, and put an RMR on it. Or you could get a Glock 40 to even up the barrel length and further narrow the performance gap with another 60 to 100 fps, and get the RMR for the MOS. Carrying a handgun that weighs almost five pounds, without the scope, might not make any sense to some people. The Glock is easier for most people to shoot well, easier to pack in the field, and it is more reliable. This is why Fish and Game and various law enforcement agencies as well as hikers and hunters from Alaska to Wyoming to Norway pack 10mm Glocks. Name one agency that issues Desert Eagles, in any caliber or configuration. The Desert Eagle is accurate, and fun. I get that. But it is heavy enough that you're probably better off packing a lever action Marlin and finicky enough with ammo to miss the real potential the cartridge offers. Thus, it isn't very practical. Most of us with experience behind them all say the same thing. Yeah, you could use it for hunting, but why would you? If you already have .44 Mag revolvers, they are better suited for hunting, and if you want an auto, there are probably better choices for that too.

Carry and shoot what you're going to shoot, but I am not alone is deciding the Desert Eagle isn't practical beyond the range. The 10mm Glocks are wildly successful among hunters and hikers because they work and don't require a carriage to get into the woods. I will put the pile of game harvested by 10mm Glocks up against that of the Desert Eagle in any caliber and configuration any day.

MTMilitiaman said:

Name one agency that issues Desert Eagles, in any caliber or configuration.

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A Ten is never going to be a Fourty Four.

You don't have to like the Eagle either, by the way.
But that is obvious...

Me owning an Eagle does not take away from your Glock, much anyway...

MTMilitiaman said:

Okay I talked with my dad and he said that he did arrive at a load getting right at 1400 with a 240 gr Sierra, but it is over book max and just under red line on Quickload. And most of the factory ammo does get closer to 1200 fps than 1400 fps. This is from a Mk VII. I don't know if they did anything with the gas system in later versions that make it easier to get those higher velocities.

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Your comments got me wondering. So I brought my 6” DE to the range and shot some Win 240 gr. JSP factory ammo over the chronograph today.

Average velocity was 1316 fps.

But as noted by others, some guns shoot faster or slower than others, even though the same model, ammo, etc.

That is a good way to do it.

Unless you absolutely NEED to have a Stainless Steel Desert Eagle NOW, right when they are released, and you can't live without it one more day!

Then I would suggest Grab-A-Gun.com.

460Shooter said:

If I could, I'd like your comment twice.

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I liked it for you.