Pflugerville Tx. Shooting
- Thread starter Averageman
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Crusader103
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Means - Opportunity - Intent
I don't comment on specific cases until well after the fact because I never know which ones comes across my desk but as a reminder to all, these three things must exist simultaneously, at the moment the force is being used against the aggressor. Several people have pointed out what a reasonable person would believe, but that matters naught if you can't demonstrate that these three facets were present, or at least that you honestly believed them to be present.
We will see if they existed in this case.
I don't comment on specific cases until well after the fact because I never know which ones comes across my desk but as a reminder to all, these three things must exist simultaneously, at the moment the force is being used against the aggressor. Several people have pointed out what a reasonable person would believe, but that matters naught if you can't demonstrate that these three facets were present, or at least that you honestly believed them to be present.
We will see if they existed in this case.
rattletrap1970
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Means - There were five of them
Opportunity - They were at the house
Intent - Hey, who can say intent? But they did make several verbal threats.
Also, this wouldn't be the first time that someone completely lost their S#$T when confronted. Particularly after threatening events leading up to a multiple assailant confrontation on private property. Also, people who are wound up have a tendency to spout off all kinds of crap due to nerves, adrenaline, fear, etc. Some people just don't have the presence of mind after an altercation like this to ****. If he opened his yap before he was Mirandized would what he said be admissible?
Opportunity - They were at the house
Intent - Hey, who can say intent? But they did make several verbal threats.
Also, this wouldn't be the first time that someone completely lost their S#$T when confronted. Particularly after threatening events leading up to a multiple assailant confrontation on private property. Also, people who are wound up have a tendency to spout off all kinds of crap due to nerves, adrenaline, fear, etc. Some people just don't have the presence of mind after an altercation like this to ****. If he opened his yap before he was Mirandized would what he said be admissible?
Chainsaw2
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MileHighMan
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Follow-Up Article
Thank you for the link Chainsaw. Here's the text:
Follow Up Report: Pflugerville Dad Shoots and Kills Daughter's Friend
www.myfoxaustin.com reports
Newsroom
7/7/2010
A Pflugerville father, who fired 15 shots out his front door fatally killing 18-year-old Daquan Wilson, told police that a group of teens had threatened his life and his family's safety. According to an arrest affidavit, Joseph Anderson, 32, went to Windermere Playground to pick up his stepdaughter who was hanging out with another male teen. Anderson got into a verbal confrontation with the teen, who allegedly threatened Anderson's life. Anderson dismissed the threat thinking that he was just a kid.
After returning to their home in the 1300 block of Ivy Bridge, Anderson told police that they received phone calls asking where they lived and another call stating that "they are going to shoot who ever opens the door." 20 minutes after the phone calls Anderson noticed six or seven teenagers walking up to his residence. Anderson recognized one of the teens as the boy in the park who had threatened him.
More on this story
http://www.myfoxaustin.com/dpp/news/local/police-dad's-life-threatened-by-teens-070710-ktbcw
Police say, Anderson went inside his home, locked the front door and told his family to get in the back of the house. The teens began banging on the door and were yelling for Anderson to come out. According to the police affidavit, Anderson thought they were going to come into his home, so he got a 9mm gun and fired 15 rounds through the front door. He told police that he wanted to scare the teens and didn't intend to shoot anyone.
Wilson was one of the teens in front of the house and was struck in the chest by one of the bullets. He was rushed to Round Rock Medical Hospital were he was pronounced dead. "He was somebody who would always be there for you. He was just somebody who'd make you laugh all the time," one of his classmates said.
Police say that Anderson took his handgun and placed it under his dresser and then picked up all the spent shell casings. He also told police that he didn't even know that he hit someone until police told him. Anderson said that everything happened so fast that he didn't have time to call the police. Anderson has been charged with 2nd degree manslaughter in the death of Daquan Wilson.
Thank you for the link Chainsaw. Here's the text:
Follow Up Report: Pflugerville Dad Shoots and Kills Daughter's Friend
www.myfoxaustin.com reports
Newsroom
7/7/2010
A Pflugerville father, who fired 15 shots out his front door fatally killing 18-year-old Daquan Wilson, told police that a group of teens had threatened his life and his family's safety. According to an arrest affidavit, Joseph Anderson, 32, went to Windermere Playground to pick up his stepdaughter who was hanging out with another male teen. Anderson got into a verbal confrontation with the teen, who allegedly threatened Anderson's life. Anderson dismissed the threat thinking that he was just a kid.
After returning to their home in the 1300 block of Ivy Bridge, Anderson told police that they received phone calls asking where they lived and another call stating that "they are going to shoot who ever opens the door." 20 minutes after the phone calls Anderson noticed six or seven teenagers walking up to his residence. Anderson recognized one of the teens as the boy in the park who had threatened him.
http://www.myfoxaustin.com/dpp/news/local/police-dad's-life-threatened-by-teens-070710-ktbcw
Police say, Anderson went inside his home, locked the front door and told his family to get in the back of the house. The teens began banging on the door and were yelling for Anderson to come out. According to the police affidavit, Anderson thought they were going to come into his home, so he got a 9mm gun and fired 15 rounds through the front door. He told police that he wanted to scare the teens and didn't intend to shoot anyone.
Wilson was one of the teens in front of the house and was struck in the chest by one of the bullets. He was rushed to Round Rock Medical Hospital were he was pronounced dead. "He was somebody who would always be there for you. He was just somebody who'd make you laugh all the time," one of his classmates said.
Police say that Anderson took his handgun and placed it under his dresser and then picked up all the spent shell casings. He also told police that he didn't even know that he hit someone until police told him. Anderson said that everything happened so fast that he didn't have time to call the police. Anderson has been charged with 2nd degree manslaughter in the death of Daquan Wilson.
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Then he should have let the blue lights and sirens scare them instead of pulling the trigger.
But he had time to move the girl to safety and then get his weapon . . .
Very bad case for Mr Anderson. He should have called the cops ASAP upon receiving the death threat. He could then have secured the house and waited for the door to be kicked in before firing.
nitetrane98
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Yes, in some instances, it's called a res gestae statement.
FruitCake
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If the statement about this being a good kid by his parents as all parents say about their kids is true why was he at this mans house with with all his thugs friends that their parents are gonna say are good kids too doing threatning this guy at his front door step? Shooting through a door is not good, but I can't say what I would do because it didn't happen to me. An angry mob at your door might make people panic and not think things through.
Wow, what a truly stupid thing to say. It's REALLY hard to claim the killing was justified if you've already admitted that you didn't feel you needed to use deadly force.
When a person takes a deliberate action like firing a gun in the general direction of another person and kills that person but then publicly admits that he didn't even want to hurt him it creates a situation where the homicide is legally impossible to justify.
If he had just stopped talking after saying this he would have made his life a LOT easier.
KodiakBeer
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Yup, he's essentially making the DA's case for the manslaughter conviction that will follow.
cassandrasdaddy
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sometimes firing to slide lock doesn't work out as well in real life as it does in fantasy. i empathise as a father but he is fubar
I believe his "statement" is what did him in, as far as charges being filed. Had he said he was defending himself and his family against a gang trying to kick in the door, and then exercised the right to remain silent, he would have had a better chance of this one being referred to a grand jury without charges.
Instead, he confessed to the crime of Deadly Conduct, which left him wide open to the Manslaughter charge. It is better to say one fired at his assailant, and missed, than confess to launching projectiles in a populated area, with "to whom it may concern" written on the bullets. Committing a crime, and unintentionally killing someone in the process, is manslaughter at best. Moreover, cleaning up his shell casings could be construed to be a felony itself, an effort to destroy or conceal evidence.
It is important to keep in mind that we do not know what ELSE he said to police, or what has been left unsaid in the news media accounts, but what the homeowner has been quoting as saying does not bode well for him in court.
To be clear, I may have fired in self-defense, AT a bad guy, given the same circumstances, but I would not say what he said, and would not alter evidence. I would have certainly dialed 911 if at all possible, before shooting. I would have let them inflict some true damage to that door, and the sounds of that damage would be nice to have on the 911 recording.
Instead, he confessed to the crime of Deadly Conduct, which left him wide open to the Manslaughter charge. It is better to say one fired at his assailant, and missed, than confess to launching projectiles in a populated area, with "to whom it may concern" written on the bullets. Committing a crime, and unintentionally killing someone in the process, is manslaughter at best. Moreover, cleaning up his shell casings could be construed to be a felony itself, an effort to destroy or conceal evidence.
It is important to keep in mind that we do not know what ELSE he said to police, or what has been left unsaid in the news media accounts, but what the homeowner has been quoting as saying does not bode well for him in court.
To be clear, I may have fired in self-defense, AT a bad guy, given the same circumstances, but I would not say what he said, and would not alter evidence. I would have certainly dialed 911 if at all possible, before shooting. I would have let them inflict some true damage to that door, and the sounds of that damage would be nice to have on the 911 recording.
cassandrasdaddy
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sometimes folks lose sight of all their defensive options they treat the gun as a magic solution to all problems with tragic results
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