10 mm or .45 ACP?

[stevek]

Just put a bid in on 9.23 acres in West Virginia with a new home on the property. We'll find out if the bank accepts our offer tomorrow...praying hard. The question is: We may have some black bears occasionally, and if push comes to shove, what sidearm will stop a black bear? We stopped at a Gander Mountain on the way back, and the gun counter guy says .45 ACP will do the trick. I was leaning towards a 10 mm, like a Glock 20. The wife doesn't like revolvers much, so a .41 or .44 magnum wouldn't work for her. We have plenty of .45 ACP and a couple of sidearms in that caliber. What does the forum say?

I know that a rifle, or shotgun, or a larger revolver would be better, but they won't do a lot of good in the house or if the wife isn't comfortable shooting/carrying them, so if possible keep the replies related to 10 mm and .45 ACP

Thanks in advance!
__________________

 

[ironhead7544]

Of the two Id pick the 10mm. Good hunting loads available for it. A six inch barrel is available for the G20.

 

[Rem.222]

With a stout load with wide + 200gr flat nose non-explaneding bullet. Both will work but since I have a 10mm that is what I would use. Remember neither round is best but no handgun is great compared to a rifle.

 

[Packman]

Personally, I'd go with the .45

I don't have anything against the 10mm, it's just that it's a pretty expensive round and I already stock lots of .45, and it looks like you do too.

Reloading would help you with the costs, but my personal methodology is to try to stay within calibers I already stock, and if I'm going to add a new one, I try to make sure it's one that I can acquire lots of inexpensively, since I don't reload. (For example, I'm looking at adding a Makarov soon. Maybe.)

Good luck with the bank! When's the barbecue?

 

[Lar1911]

The 10mm is a good hunting round. You are getting close to 41magnum capabilities.

 

[lebowski]

.45, if only because you already stock it. Adding a new caliber is a pain.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Some muzzle energies from the Buffalo Bore website...

.45 ACP +P gets to 550 or so ft*lb

.45 Super is mid-high 600 ft*lb, just a hair behind 10mm

Full load 10mm stuff gets just over 700 ft*lb

.44 mag is 1250-1500 ft*lb, just for comparison...

I'd say either switch to .45 super in a gun or two or get the wife a Glock 20SF (the G20 grip is notoriously huge, but the SF grip is a bit smaller front-back). Then, get yourself a Ruger Super Blackhawk, because shooting .44 mag is just fun!

 

[weisse52]

Or, buy the G20 and then purchase a .45 barrel to shoot both.

 

[BLB68]

Don't discount bear spray. (Don't discount firearms, either.)

What's adequate will depend on how big your bears get. Don't expect the bear to instantly stop doing whatever it's doing because it's shot in the act, and continue to fight if you're getting mauled, even if it's hand against claws/teeth. Black bears don't like food that fights back. (And are more likely to attack to snack than browns/grizzlies.)

 

[HM2PAC]

I like both and carry both. A couple of years ago I purchased the G20 for the exact same reason that you are asking about.

Know what you are buying though. I do not expect that the 10mm will make a true "Stop" on a black bear, especially a big one. "Stop" usually refers to the ability to stop the animal dead in it's tracks with no further sign of life.

So my bet is that anyone out there that carries a 45 or 10mm in the event of a bear attack, will more than likely need to keep shooting. As the old adage goes, if it's worth shooting once, it's worth shooting twice.....or more.

For both 45 and 10mm look at really stout loads. Buffalo Bore Ammo makes some really nice stuff. Personally I prefer a solid bullet and penetration over an HP and expansion. That's a whole different argument though.

 

[jmr40]

G-20, Much more powerful than 45 with more rounds to boot. You can get Doubletap hardcast 200 gr bullets at 1300fps for serious work from www.doubletapammo.com. No 10mm ammo is close to full power 41 mag ammo. It may come close to some of the very light loadings intended for personal defense, but is actually a little better than very hot loaded 357 mag rounds.

I didn't take the time to re-check, but the last time I purchased 10mm ammo from these guys www.georgia-arms.com it was cheaper than 45 ACP. They make good stuff for practice and personal defense. It is not loaded as hot as the Doubletap ammo however.

 

[wow6599]

G20 SF without a doubt. DT makes a 230 gr rd that Hickok45 did a review on over at his youtube channel.....it would be my choice for a black bear, especially with a 6" LW barrel.

From DT -

Caliber : 10mm
Bullet : 230gr Wide Flat Nose Gas Check Hardcast
Ballistics : 1120fps/ 641 ft./lbs. - Glock 20
1008fps / 519 ft lbs 100yds Glock 20
Glock 29 - 1075fps

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=158

 

[Wildbillz]

From the choises offered? I would go 10mm. If I could widen the field? I would take a S&W model 29 6" or 4". Load with the 300grn XTP bullet or somting of that ilk. But thats just me.

WB

 

[Harley Quinn]

I have the Glock 21, 45...I can put a 10mm barrel/mags in it, shoot both

 

[gofastman]

10mm or .45 super

I think the 45ACP is a bit passé, but that's not the discussion here.
I sure as hell wouldn't want "just" a 45ACP (especially for bear) if the other above mentioned cartridges were available.

Don't discount bear spray.

yes, a good quality "people" spray like Fox 5.3 should work too, and a 2oz can of Fox on you person is far, far better than a 9oz can of bear spray you leave at home.

as someone else already said, bears don't like food that fights back.

 

[buck460XVR]

I have lived and hunted in Black Bear country for over half a century. Never have I felt the "need" to carry in my home or in the field for protection against them. Altho I know bear numbers in W.V. are increasing, I'd still bet your greatest threat is from yourself or other two legged vermin. As a.......

NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, and Personal Protection in the Home Instructor

......you should know this better than us. Carry what you feel comfortable with and are the most proficient with. Sorry, I ain't trying to be an azz, but the .45 vs 10mm debate has been debated since the creation of the 10mm. The number of forum posts concerning Black Bear protection is second only to posts about the lack of professionals at the ammo counter at Wal-Mart. Good luck getting your dream home.......enjoy it and don't forget to feed the bears.

 

[BlindJustice]

The Danes - Denmark ARmy sends out 2 man teams to Greennland to
obesrve/census Polar bears THey are armed as far as firearms
go, a mil-spec .30-06 Bolt Action rifle -and- a Glock 20.

Dan Wesson makes nice 10mm AUtos.

That said I don't have a 10mm Auto - I have a full size 1911
in .45 ACP. also have the .400 COrBOn Bbl. but the short neck l&
case capacity limit bullet weight to 155-165i gr. bullet weights.

Article by an experienced bear hunter liked bigger bores
because a bigger entry hole bleeds more

How about a .45 ACP load of

Leadhead Hardcast 225 gr. TC-BB @ 950 FPS
nice broad flat face, and the cutting ledge of
the full shank of the bullet

.45 Super - go to Jim Clark Louisiana

R-

 

[Harley Quinn]

If you are talking Bears and the 45 or 10mm, most folks in the revolver world of hunting them like the big 50 cals...I suggested my Desert Eagle, 50 AE or 440 Corbon, both hard hitters and was told to get something even stronger

Link to show the two I like...

The 44 bullet has better ballistics. The 44 is also a more common design and has higher availability;
•- The added powder/power increases muzzle velocity and energy dramatically. The 240gr. JHP 440C is at 1900+ ft/sec. and 1900+ lbs/ft... the 260gr. BHP 440C is at 1700+ ft/sec. and 1600+ lbs/ft... phew!;

http://zvis.com/dep/articles/aevscorb.shtml

But to stay on line with the OP the extra ammo in the mag and better overall ballistics, favors the 10mm...

Regards

 

[stevek]

Thanks to most for your replies...

I have lived and hunted in Black Bear country for over half a century. Never have I felt the "need" to carry in my home or in the field for protection against them. Altho I know bear numbers in W.V. are increasing, I'd still bet your greatest threat is from yourself or other two legged vermin. As a.......
Quote:
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, and Personal Protection in the Home Instructor
......you should know this better than us. Carry what you feel comfortable with and are the most proficient with. Sorry, I ain't trying to be an azz, but the .45 vs 10mm debate has been debated since the creation of the 10mm. The number of forum posts concerning Black Bear protection is second only to posts about the lack of professionals at the ammo counter at Wal-Mart. Good luck getting your dream home.......enjoy it and don't forget to feed the bears.

This was an honest question on my part, and your response was not one of the ones that my thanks are directed towards. Thanks for the good wishes on our getting our place though...

 

[NMGonzo]

What do YOU want?

 

[Hook686]

jmr40 ... No 10mm ammo is close to full power 41 mag ammo. It may come close to some of the very light loadings intended for personal defense, but is actually a little better than very hot loaded 357 mag rounds.

Heavy 357 Magnum Ammo - 180 gr. L.F.N. -G.C. (1,400fps/M.E. 783 ft. lbs.)

I'd pick a .357 magnum over either a .45acp, or 10mm.

 

[wow6599]

Heavy 357 Magnum Ammo - 180 gr. L.F.N. -G.C. (1,400fps/M.E. 783 ft. lbs.)

I'd pick a .357 magnum over either a .45acp, or 10mm

I'll stick with 16 rds of the slightly larger .40 cal load......plus use a 6" barrel to increase those numbers a little. But I do love my .357 Revolvers with my 1894C.

This is from Swamp Fox ammo -
10mm Auto
180gr Hard Cast FlatPoint Bullets
New Starline Brass or Top Brass
Winchester or Remington large Pistol Primers
Hodgdon and/or Winchester Powder, Hand Weighed
1375fps 755 ft/lbs energy@ Muzzle. From a Stock Glock 20.

http://www.swampfoxgunworks.com/swampfox/product.php?productid=17683&cat=361&page=1

 

[InkEd]

Bear spray is a good idea!

Between the 2 choice get 10mm. Better advice tell your wife to get over not liking revolvers. Wanna live or die? Your choice. Pack a .44magnum or more for bear. Even "small" black bears can take you out quick.

 

[BLB68]

I have lived and hunted in Black Bear country for over half a century. Never have I felt the "need" to carry in my home or in the field for protection against them.

These questions don't arise because of the 99% of the time someone isn't being attacked by a bear, but because of those times when it happens anyway. I think it's a given that generally black bears are non-aggressive toward humans. Most people understand this.

However, being prepared for the exceptions to normality is not a bad thing. There is absolutely no misconception that black bears do sometimes attack people. We had a mauling of one of our local (I think a state rep) politicians up here just a few months ago. IT HAPPENS. Goody if it hasn't happened to you yet. I hope it never does. But the question stated by the OP was not "what are my odds of being attacked by a bear?" but "what do I need if it does happen?"

It's OK to state some reassurances that the event is rare, but your post reads as dismissive and insulting.

 

[DasFriek]

Ive owned my share of 1911's in .45acp and even a Glock 20.
If you don't plan on shooting the gun much and don't reload id definitely go with the G20.

But if you want to shoot the gun a bit the 1911 is the way to go, And i just found some ammo thats pretty darn close to G20 loads.
Speer Lawman 200gr +P flatnose ammo. I found it for $17 for a box of 50 off the net a few months back, Im holding some back for woods carry myself.
That stuff packs one heck of a punch even in a full side 1911. Or you can get some heavy loads from Buffalo Bore or Double Tap.