.25 & 32. ACP obsolete?

[StrikeFire83]

I was at a Los Angeles gun store the other day, not interested in buying anything as I am heading back to a free state (Texas) within a month’s time, but it’s always fun to check out wares and window shop. Looking at all the modern pistols aimed at the CCW market, it dawned on me that the .25 & 32. ACP seem like generally useless and outmoded calibers in today’s market.

Given the marginal nature of the .25, and the slightly better performance of the .32, I was wondering why anyone would elect to carry a gun in these calibers when my P3AT, the Ruger LCP, the forthcoming Kahr P380 are as small or SMALLER then many of the .32 and even .25 guns. It’s hard to imagine a mode of dress (other than a speedo) where a person couldn’t conceal a P3AT sized weapon.

Given the respectable performance of some .380 self defense loads and the ultra-slim profile of many current generation guns, do any of yall think the smaller and less effective .25 and .32 cartridges have any kind of future?

 

[DougDubya]

A .25 the same size as the classic Browning Baby, but with a more self-defense appropriate trigger or safety mechanism, would make an excellent 3rd or 4th gun. Or a BUG to one of the teeny .380's.

.25's are also less cranky in the recoil department.

Does Taurus still make those nifty little PT22's? Or is the Walther TPH yet around?

 

[highlander 5]

I carry a Walther PP in 32 auto on occasion and get laughed at. my response "let me put 3 or 4 hps into your chest and get back to me"
Some people can't manage a "large" pistol or cannot afford a bigger,better gun. An inexpensive 25 or 32 beats no gun at all.
IMHO the 25 auto is the world's most useless cartridge but agian better than nothing.

 

[putteral]

I agree, I think they are on the way out. Notice not to many new designs in those calibers. Plus not worth reloading.

 

[StrikeFire83]

I carry a Walther PP in 32 auto on occasion and get laughed at. my response "let me put 3 or 4 hps into your chest and get back to me"
Some people can't manage a "large" pistol or cannot afford a bigger,better gun. An inexpensive 25 or 32 beats no gun at all.
IMHO the 25 auto is the world's most useless cartridge but agian better than nothing.

I make it a point never to be-little anyone who had made the decision to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights. I'm not familiar with the walther PP, but I assume it's heavier then the 10 oz P3AT, which cost me all of $275, which anyone should be able to afford.

I'm sure your Walther is a fine weapon, and these ultra light and thin .380s weren't around even a few years ago, so the game has changed a bit recently.

I was more interested if, going forward, people will elect to purchase a gun in a caliber that is less powerful, weighs the same or MORE, and costs the same or MORE.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I think I would go along with the .25 as obsolete, but would not "toe-tag" the .32 just yet. It has a niche in really tiny guns like the Seecamp or Kel-Tec. WRT those two guns, the .380 Kel-Tec is bigger than the .32 and has no slide stop, while the .380 in the Seecamp is pushing the limits of the design, with each shot being nearly the equivalent of a "proof" load, as well as the .380 version being even more costly and scarce.

 

[Walkalong]

I agree, I think they are on the way out. Notice not to many new designs in those calibers. Plus not worth reloading.

Hmm.... I carry a .32 quite a bit, and reload for it to practice.

I think they are here to stay. They are still to be found new everywhere I go.

I agree with thinking the .25 is almost useless, but it has its followers.

 

[StrikeFire83]

^ I agree that the .25 is dead in the water as well.

However, I don't quite get what you're saying about the seecamp and kel-tec guns. I've never fired a .32, but the recoil on my P3AT is pretty minimal. I find firing .357s out of my SP-01 more uncomfortable. The .32 kel-tec is functionally identical in size to the P3AT, and i know the Seecamps are all the same size.



But in your experiences are the .32 seecamps more reliable then the .380 variety?

 

[Cosmoline]

.25 ACP is moribund. There are some micro semis chambered for it but the .22 LR versions seem to do better.

.32 ACP is still around and chambered in too many handguns to go away anytime soon. The round itself is of an odd semi-rimmed design and it's far from perfect, but it won't be gone in my lifetime. Yes there are a large number of popular pocket semis in .380, 9x18 and even 9x19, but I'm not aware of any of them that can use the same very small frame size the .32 ACP can use. The .32 is a very low pressure round and doesn't need much steel, so it can be housed in extremely compact firearms more easily than the larger rounds.

I carry a Walther PP in 32 auto on occasion and get laughed at.

I used to carry one of those. Fantastic firearm. It was actually a pleasure to carry it, it was so compact and easy to deal with. As far as the small round, it's a fair cop. But I'll tell you I was like a trick shooter with that thing I could fire it so fast. Nothing to laugh at, for certain.

 

[berkbw]

If it will kill, it's not obsolete, even if it is a hammer! .25/.32 WILL kill. just stock up on ammo, as it will be expensive.

Handgun efficiency is like real estate. Location, Location, Location. eh?
b-

 

[TheReeves]

I don't carry my Walther PP, but I do love the gun in .32. Getting extremely hard to find ammo around here though.

 

[Pigspitter]

25ACP: yes
32ACP: Hell no.
Imagine having somebody empty a Walther PP's mag in you. The first couple shots might not kill you, but don't expect it to be sunshine and lolly pops.

 

[Old Fuff]

Well the cartridge companies sell an awful lot of .25 & .32 ACP as well as .32 S&W. .32 S&W Long, and .38 S&W to folks that don’t know it’s obsolete… Regardless of what the current gun manufacturers do, there are a lot of guns out there that someone will want to feed. Those outdated (?) rounds will be around as long as they’re selling.

There is a big difference between the general public and members of this forum, so far as choice in handguns are concerned. All those S&W top-breaks (and clones thereof) or Colt pocket automatics didn’t die and go to heaven, even if the original owners have.

I won’t mention World War Two bring-backs….

 

[searcher451]

Ammo prices might well be the ultimate decider on the issue. I spent a tad over $37 this weekend on 100 rounds of Winchester white box .32 FMJ from WallyWorld and took a LNIB Interarms PPK to the range for a workout. The gun performed flawlessly and was as accurate as my hand and aim allowed. All in all, it was a heck of a fine day in the spring. But I can get 100 rounds of 9mm Winchester white box FMJ from the same WallyWorld for a tad over $18 -- and during the course of the year, that double-the-price for .32 caliber adds up.

There's no question that the .32 is an honorable round; and no, as Highlander accurately notes, you would not want to stand still while someone -- anyone -- popped a few rounds into your chest. Police departments around the world, including here at home, used the round successfully for many years.

 

[MCgunner]

The only real virtue of the .25 is that it feeds and fires much more reliably in a small auto than does the .22 LR. What with little guns like the LCP and P3AT around now days, I see little use for the .25 or the .32, frankly.

 

[sm]

Old Fuff wrote:

There is a big difference between the general public and members of this forum, so far as choice in handguns are concerned.

Well stated and I totally agree!

 

[Muddflap]

I's hate to think my .32 Seecamp was a paperweight.

 

[mljdeckard]

.25 is TECHNICALLY better than no gun at all. If my only option was a .25, I would empty it into the attacker as I charged them with it, prepared to beat them with it.

When you shoot someone wearing thick clothes at a range of more than 20 inches, the response you get from them should not be; "OWW!! That's going to leave a welt!!"

 

[10-Ring]

i've had my false sense of security for a while now (25 cal Beretta)-- and for most days, it makes for a great little companion...I just hope I never need to test its ability to stop a BG.

 

[misterwhipple]

For as long as you enjoy shooting it, it will never be obsolete, just hard to find.

 

[jaydubya]

With ammunition prices doubling every two or so years, this issue will settle itself. .25 and .32 ACP is already shockingly expensive for marginal rounds. There is a .32 ACP Colt Pocket Model for sale locally, 30% finish remaining, original stocks. They want $475 for it. It's been in the case for a month now, and I expect it will be there when I go to the range next week.

I bought the "upgrade" version, a 1908 .380, for my wife as a surrogate husband while I was away on cruise during Vietnam. She defended home and hearth with it and is ready to do so again. Good gun, but despite its name, I would not carry it in my pocket.

Cordially, Jack

 

[RyanM]

Don't know. A Seecamp 380 is basically the same size and weight as a Baby Browning. However, if the same engineering standards were applied to the .32 and .25, how small would they end up?

 

[searcher451]

Or is the Walther TPH yet around?

To answer DougDubya's question, the Interarms version of the Walther TPH can be found on Gunsamerica or Gunbroker, mainly in .22 caliber, in the $500+ range. They are notoriously unreliable. The German-made Walther is reliable, on the other hand, but be prepared to spend upwards of $1,200 to $1,500 to get one ... certainly not the answer that anyone is looking for here.

 

[Onmilo]

Obsolete, no.
Obsolecent, yes.

In countries that limit civilian available calibers, the .32 and .25 are still common.

In military and police applications the .25 and .32 and for the most part, the .380 have been replaced by small frame 9mm Parabellum and .40 S&W caliber pistols.

 

[mavracer]

try to keep your kel-tec minute of eyeball and get back to me.this is 7 yards with fiocchi 60 grn SJHP that chrono 1200+ fps for just over 200 ft.lb. of energy.