.25 & 32. ACP obsolete?

[MetalMan52]

.32

When I was teaching my kids to shoot. A CZ50 in .32 ACP was the second pistol they shot. It was a good caliber to move them from a .22 up to a centerfire. It's a good choice to keep them from developing a "flinch" by moving to too big of a caliber too soon. My daughters still like to shoot them to this day. I don't know how my son will be when he returns from Iraq. The last time he was home, he was "bored" at the range, no burst or full auto fire. He also went through the .32 when he was younger.
One other area is if you collect WWII German sidearms. The .32 was a common caliber for officers and air/armor crews.
Pat

 

[Eb1]

Mavracer,
I can do the same with my Taurus 32 H&R magnum stubby. I don't think that the .32 is dead. Good shooting.

My dad carries a .25. I would not want to be on the receiving end of the .25.

 

[MachIVshooter]

While I don't actually carry anything smaller than .380, I do have a soft spot for the little guys. While it is true that guns like the P3AT has made many .25's and .32's impractical, there are still some truly diminutive critters that have their place.

P-32 and a Bauer .25 (Baby browning copy)

 

[StrikeFire83]

try to keep your kel-tec minute of eyeball and get back to me.this is 7 yards with fiocchi 60 grn SJHP that chrono 1200+ fps for just over 200 ft.lb. of energy.

Certainly some good shooting. You're right, I'm not that good with my Kel-Tec. But I'm pretty combat accurate with it. And I'm nearly as good are you are with my Kahr-K9, which is a similar sized weapon to that in a more powerful caliber, 9mm. I guess I just believe in carrying the most powerful round a particular size of weapon can reliably take.

That being said I wouldn't dare stand on the business end of you and that weapon.

 

[mavracer]

Certainly some good shooting. You're right, I'm not that good with my Kel-Tec. But I'm pretty combat accurate with it. And I'm nearly as good are you are with my Kahr-K9, which is a similar sized weapon to that in a more powerful caliber, 9mm. I guess I just believe in carrying the most powerful round a particular size of weapon can reliably take.

I usually carry somthing more powerful too (M&P 340) but I don't by any means feal under gunned with my walther and IMHO for Self-Defense pourposes there is little difference between .380 and .32 acp.

 

[DougDubya]

That's the one thing pointed out -

A Walther PP in .32 ACP has plenty of COMFORTABLE grip, would need to be hung on someone with full body arthrisis to be "too heavy and painful to carry, and recoils like a flea's sneeze.

Sure, the Kahr Mk40 has six rounds of .45 ACP-weight bullets (180-grains) and is technically smaller and flatter than the Walther PP, and the MP340 in .357 Magnum puts the PP in the dust power wise.

But barring Walther bite, the PP is going to be much gentler to your hand, engendering much more shooting and practice than either of those hand-smashers.

 

[Prince Yamato]

One area that seems to be overlooked is for residents of cities. If you live in a high-rise, something like 44 mag may be overkill. I was speculating with an FFL once as to why all the European police pistols were of such "small" caliber. I came up with fact that most European cities are (or were prior to WW2) tightly packed and that a large caliber weapon would prove unwieldy in an apartment complex built in the 18th century. Moreover, over-penetration is a definite risk when your walls are two centuries old. In short, I think that a lighter caliber weapon still has its place. If you spend most of your time indoors and milling about town. Who knows, maybe after Heller goes our way and someone sues NYC, there will be a resurgence in small caliber pistols.

 

[Old Fuff]

If you spend most of your time indoors and milling about town. Who knows, maybe after Heller goes our way and someone sues NYC, there will be a resurgence in small caliber pistols.

Actually they never went out of favor, except with gunnies. Ammunition sales remain strong for the older pocket automatics and revolvers. In the overall picture we are a minority.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

".25 ACP is moribund. There are some micro semis chambered for it but the .22 LR versions seem to do better."

I used to feel that way too, until I shot a Beretta 950 Jetfire .22 and a .25 side by side.
The magazine capacity and reliability and accuracy was vastly better with the .25.
Now, none of those are serious defensive pistols but they are better than nothing especially for those small framed inexperienced non-shooters (like your grandmother) that feel better having one in their nightstand or purse.

 

[MCgunner]

Nice target, Mavracer. That's about as accurate as my P11 with which I routinely clear 6" plates off hand at 25 yards. It's lighter, smaller, more powerful, higher firepower, than that .32, but other than that.....

It is 3.5" at 25 yards accurate off a rest. Whatever floats your boat, but the compact 9s are making stuff like PPs and PPKs obsolete or "obsolescent" IMHO. Why should I tote a .380 or .32 in a bigger, heavier, harder to hide gun when you can have 9x19 +P in a tidier package? I guess if you just like the PP platform and you don't like the various Kahrs, Kel Tecs, Taurus Millenniums, Rohrbaughs, etc, that's the only reasoning I can think of. I'm with StrikerFire83 on this one.

I'm thinking I don't need a Bauer baby .25. My NAA mini .22 is smaller and probably more accurate. LOL!

 

[DrLaw]

.25 is sleeping, that's all

While there are a number of .32 and .380 shooters out there, from the numbers of .25 guns that have been made in this century, I have a feeling that the vast number are just sitting there, sleeping.

There was a time when people carried concealed weapons. The .25 was a vest pocket gun, something that fit into a vest, pants pocket or purse, and were about as noticable as cell phones are today.

I have the feeling that many of those once carried guns are idling away their time in nightstands, attics, dresser drawers and other spots in many homes, waiting for a call for action or just plain forgotten. It is just one of those guns that does not get practiced with. I bet we all know people who have guns in their home who do not use them.

Bottom line, I don't think the .25 is obsolete yet, just resting.

The Doc is out now.

 

[Farnorthdan]

walther model 5

I own numerous Walther's and the pp .32acp/7.65mm is one of my favorites, recoil is low and the gun is very accurate. I also own a model 5 in .25acp, this is just one of the coolest guns I've ever seen or owned. Looks like a Walther fresh from the womb its just so cute, makes you want to hold it, I wouldn't carry it for protection though, not because of its effectiveness but because its a collector in pristine condition....hell I carry a .22mag as a bug and am OK with that. My primary is never smaller than my S&W 342 in 38spl.

 

[dagger dog]

There was a time in the not so distant past the a gentleman would never think of leaving the house, with out his pocket pistol be it a .25 cal Baby Browning,Colt, or the Walther PP, in .32 ACP. These pistols more or less made up the finishing touches of his attire , along with the pocket knife. Both were gennerally finley crafted, and were a badge of his coming of age.
Nowdays , athletic shoes, designer jeans, baseball caps, have to have the correct firearm to go along with these times and dress, black plastic pistols,black daggers etc. , of course nothing less than 9mm can cut it.

Give me the blued steel walnut stocked .25 .32 ACP, with a Boker any day!

 

[usp9]

Or is the Walther TPH yet around?

To answer DougDubya's question, the Interarms version of the Walther TPH can be found on Gunsamerica or Gunbroker, mainly in .22 caliber, in the $500+ range. They are notoriously unreliable.

Unreliable? I think by my experience and from what I've read the TPH is as reliable as any .22lr. I'd carry it before I'd carry a Keltec. A .25 caliber TPH is the holy grail I seek for my collection, priced out of my range because of demand. Go figure. What little .22/ .25 could be produced today for the prices a TPH commands?

These two rounds will be around as long as people carry little guns, and many people do in fact carry little guns.

 

[Timthinker]

I have often thought it would be interesting to have a Ruger 10/22 rifle modified to fire .25 ACP rounds. Impractical? Yes. But I suspect a "hot" .25 round would prove superior to the .22 long rifle in this particular platform. I also like the idea of a .32 ACP semi-auto rifle. Again, I realize the impracticality of this idea, but it would improve the performance of those rounds somewhat. Consider this food for thought.


Timthinker

 

[MCgunner]

Interesting thought, but I think you'd have to handload the .25 with a slower powder in a 10/22 to get much out of it. I don't KNOW that, but I do know .25 is intended for very short barrel pistols and it stands to reason they'd use something on the order of PB or Red Dot to load it. And, while I handload for .380, my fingers ain't small enough for .25ACP, LOL! .380 is bad enough!

All in all, if I want more than .22, I'll take my Remington 597 magnum in .22 mag out of the safe. I can see no advantage in .25 over .22LR in the 10/22. If you did handload it, you'd have to chase brass (you think finding .380 in the grass is tough?) and if you didn't handload it, it'd cost you out the waz for no ballistic gain over the good ol' .22. Maybe a .25 in a necked down .32 case? Didn't NAA do that? They did it with the .32 in a .380 case, I know. Or, heck, you could neck the .380 down to .25. ROFL Be about as useful as the .17s, which do seem to be popular, though. Who knows how any of that would go over in the market? Me, I'll just go with .22 hornet before I'd neck anything down.

 

[Timthinker]

MC, thanks for the complement about the idea. As I mentioned earlier, this idea is impractical, but it might prove interesting. I believe that a "hot" .25 ACP cartridge could be developed that would prove superior to the .22 long rifle round in a 10/22 platform. Again, this is more of a "thought experiment" than a pragmatic rifle design. After all, the .22 Magnum, revamped 5mm Remington Magnum and .22 Hornet exist for those wishing more power than the .22 long rifle cartridge provides. Yet, this idea struck me as an interesting use for the old .25. Believe it or not, I am not the only person to contemplate new uses for that round. This thread seemed like an appropriate place to share that notion. Thanks again.


Timthinker

 

[MCgunner]

Well, if you ever do it, report on it here in the rifle forum 'cause I think it'd make for an interesting read if nothing else. LOL Ain't doin' it to mine, but I would enjoy hearing about it. Might be some machine work to get the bolt right and the firing pin position. The barrel would be the easy part. Magazine? Well, I don't know about that one.

 

[MICHAEL T]

I keep a few 32's around and still have several 25's in my collection. A Beretta 950 Jetfire is a nice pocket pistol and 9 rounds of 25 will hurt . 16+inches in Jell test Beat FBI 12 inch min.
Lot of people dead from 25 and more every year. I get tired of the my buddy knows or my uncle told me stores. How about a 1st hand I was shot by a 25 and it didn't hurt or my T shirt stopped it Never see any real 1st hand happened to me accounts . Proof required

 

[unspellable]

I view the 32 as still viable and for me it's the absolute minimum in a carry round when deep concealment is a big issue. It has enough steam to make hollow points worth the effort.

The 25 on the other hand has only one advantage, it has more reliable ignition than a 22 LR. But this is offset by the unreliability of many of the guns it's chambered in.

 

[MCgunner]

The 25 on the other hand has only one advantage, it has more reliable ignition than a 22 LR. But this is offset by the unreliability of many of the guns it's chambered in.

In my experience, the .25 also feeds a lot more trouble free in small autos. .22LR was not designed with feeding in pocket pistols, autos for that matter, in mind. Between .22 and .25 in an auto, I feel much better about the .25 for these reasons. But, I still don't like carrying anything that weak when I can full well carry my 9x19 as easily. If attire (hardly ever) requires it, I have a .22 NAA mini, better than nothing. And, I plan to get either a P3AT or LCP in .380 to give me a medium option between the NAA an 9. However, it's a .380.

 

[JERRY]

while the kt p32 is a better caliber gun than a beretta 950 .25acp, it kicks a lot more by comparison to an elderly lady, is harder to charge the chamber, and has a stiffer/longer trigger pull, all of those are not very conducive to an artheritic hand.


the beretta model 950 .25acp is just fine for that old lady, and 8 rounds of centerfire 50gr. fmj is better than nothing.

it must suck to be old, so i wont discount something that works for those like her.

 

[jackstinson]

Hey....I love my old Beretta 950B!
The .25acp and the .32acp aren't going away no matter what a folks here think. My favorite local shop has a case full of .25 and .32 pocket guns always and they sell them like hotcakes. There are a lot of people who own and shoot .25 and .32 pocket guns. The ammo makers sell a ton of it as well.
Never buy .25acp or .32acp from WalMart. I buy all mine online for about 1/2 to 2/3 the price shipped to my front door. Other countries use a lot of .25acp and .32acp due to various local restrictions. So I prefer foreign made .25acp to Winchester. My preference is toward Aquila and S&B in .25acp and S&B in .32acp. Places like Natchez have good prices and fast delivery.
I shoot a lot of .25's and .32's. Heck, I even load a .25 caliber pellet into primed brass with no powder and shoot my .25acp autos in the basement (single shot).
Yes, I usually carry a .380 or a 9mm, but sometimes .25 or .32 also or instead of.
Jack

 

[Hokkmike]

Obselescent, is that the term?

 

[jackstinson]

Obselescent, is that the term?

per Merriam-Webster's:
ob·so·les·cent ... Function: adjective .... Date: 1755
: going out of use : becoming obsolete
As in; ".25acp and .32acp cartridges are not obsolescent."