peacebutready
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Interesting comment. Were you referring to standard or +P pressure .38 loads?
40 S&W hard to shoot?
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Interesting comment. Were you referring to standard or +P pressure .38 loads?
greyghost01
Member
I had one of the original S&W 4006 stainless pistols and it jumped pretty good I have a XD 40 SC and it shoots better than the Smith did, Doesn't make since to me at all but it does. Also just purchased a Glock 35 haven't shot it yet but Ive heard they are great, The 40 flips the muzzle up the 45 shoves straight back into your hand, But I love to shoot 44 and 357 so to me a 40 is not that bad, Just takes practice, Love the round smacks pretty good when it hits.
I've had my fare share of 40's over the past 13 years. In 40 I had a Hk p2000, Xd 40 service model, sig p229, glock 23 and Walther ppq. I to believed that the 40 was inherently less accurate until I got the Walther. On a good day I can shoot the ppq as good as my 9mm CZ or 45 acp 1911. I kept the glock and shoot it pretty well but not as good as the Q. I had both .357 sig and 40 cal barrels with the 229 and grouped the .357 noticeably better than when I had the 40 barrel in. I shot the Hk and Xd about the same as the glock. I must admit all my 40 were less accurate on a regular basis than my 9's and 45's. My ppq is snappy and I shoot that quite well so that was not the issue. I think part of it was all my 40's were in the compact size compared to the full size 9's and 45's I was comparing them to in accuracy. I'd like to shoot a Cz 75 in 40 to see if I can group like i can with my 9 and that will tell the tale. I'm going to see if I can get my hands on one. This thread has me really thinking either my inaccuracies with 40's was mental or just because I didn't have a full size
I don't think there's anything inherently inaccurate about 40SW. In fact, with my own sample of guns, 9mm is the toughest caliber to get good inherent accuracy. Perhaps it's Glock specific or even just a bad sample that I happen to own, but my Glock 9mm barrels are all loose in the chamber in the casemouth and leade, and this seems to correlate with inherent accuracy. (FWIW, my friend's G34 appears to have a slightly tighter chamber in some respects, but I haven't shot it much or done any load development specifically for it).
My Glock 40 and 45 barrels are extremely tight at the case mouth/leade. The 40 barrel is so tight I can't even use several of my headstamps to load good ammo. I thought the gun was a dud for years. But I finally discovered that the right combination of components produces great accuracy.
Trying to shoot, say, a beer bottle at 50 yards with any of my Glock 9mm's is like playing the lottery. The bullets will be in the right area, but the difference between a hit and a near miss is total luck. With all my current 40/45's (including Glocks), it's a matter of skill.
I have favored handguns moreso than favored handgun calibers. But I would freely admit that smaller/lighter 40SW guns can be a bit of a handful with hot ammo.
I have a 10mm and 45ACP on the same platform. And I have shot plenty of 40SW out of the 10mm. I don't find that 40SW has a "sharper recoil impulse" or that it's "more snappy" than 10mm or 45ACP out of the same gun/platform, at all, which is something I have heard others claim. 40SW has more recoil than 9mm, on average, and that's about all you need to know. Depending on your build, you might find some 40SW guns harder to shoot as fast compared to 9mm, particularly the lighter guns. OTOH, for some of the heavier full size guns, you might find they are about the same.
If every single 45ACP handgun that was ever made also came in an otherwise identical 9mm variation, 45ACP would be considered "snappy."
My Glock 40 and 45 barrels are extremely tight at the case mouth/leade. The 40 barrel is so tight I can't even use several of my headstamps to load good ammo. I thought the gun was a dud for years. But I finally discovered that the right combination of components produces great accuracy.
Trying to shoot, say, a beer bottle at 50 yards with any of my Glock 9mm's is like playing the lottery. The bullets will be in the right area, but the difference between a hit and a near miss is total luck. With all my current 40/45's (including Glocks), it's a matter of skill.
I have favored handguns moreso than favored handgun calibers. But I would freely admit that smaller/lighter 40SW guns can be a bit of a handful with hot ammo.
I have a 10mm and 45ACP on the same platform. And I have shot plenty of 40SW out of the 10mm. I don't find that 40SW has a "sharper recoil impulse" or that it's "more snappy" than 10mm or 45ACP out of the same gun/platform, at all, which is something I have heard others claim. 40SW has more recoil than 9mm, on average, and that's about all you need to know. Depending on your build, you might find some 40SW guns harder to shoot as fast compared to 9mm, particularly the lighter guns. OTOH, for some of the heavier full size guns, you might find they are about the same.
If every single 45ACP handgun that was ever made also came in an otherwise identical 9mm variation, 45ACP would be considered "snappy."
This is probably more due to the platform than the caliber, IMO. XD's flip the muzzle real nice and high for me, in any caliber, compared to a Glock. The most ridiculous muzzle flip I ever experienced was with a SW P99 in 45ACP - and it was a soft, fast, and accurate shooter. Muzzle flip has to do with axial mass and bore axis and is not much of an indication of recoil. Straight back recoil almost feels like you can manhandle the gun to control the recoil. But for me, I find no practical difference in shooting speed or accuracy between the two different kinds of recoil.
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I have basically the same pistol chambered in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP (2 Beretta Cougars and a Stoeger Cougar). Of the three, the .40 Beretta is definitely the least pleasant to shoot. Not just my experience, but basically that of everybody who has tried shooting my Cougars.
Put them on a scale. As far as I can research on the web, the unloaded 45 weighs 32 oz. Some of the 9mm versions apparently weigh only 28.2 oz. And the respective 40SW version of the gun will probably be a hair lighter than the 9mm version, due to the lighter barrel.
So is not necessarily apple to apples.
FWIW, I had the 40SW Cougar, and it was pleasant to shoot, all day. I gave it away because between the heavy trigger and the straight up/down grip angle, I couldn't hold the sights on target to save my life.
So is not necessarily apple to apples.
FWIW, I had the 40SW Cougar, and it was pleasant to shoot, all day. I gave it away because between the heavy trigger and the straight up/down grip angle, I couldn't hold the sights on target to save my life.
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The unloaded weight of the full-size Cougars actually progressively decreases a little with increasing caliber. The frames, slides, and internals are basically the same. I presume the weight difference is due to the increasing diameter of the barrel bore. The Cougar 8000L compact weighs 28.2 ounces due to the shorter mag well, grips, and magazine.
Unloaded weights: Cougar 8000 (9mm): 32.6 ounces
Cougar 8040 (.40 S%W): 32.4 ounces
Cougar 8045 (.45 ACP): 32.0 ounces
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/sites/default/files/originals/product-manuals/cougar_pistol.pdf
Unloaded weights: Cougar 8000 (9mm): 32.6 ounces
Cougar 8040 (.40 S%W): 32.4 ounces
Cougar 8045 (.45 ACP): 32.0 ounces
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/sites/default/files/originals/product-manuals/cougar_pistol.pdf
MoreIsLess
Member
I had a Glock 23 (.40 S&W) and I traded it for an M&P 45 which I could shoot a lot better.While browsing at a gun show today I was chatting with one of the exhibitors about replacing a 40 s&w that I can't "hit the broad side of a barn with" He mentioned that he felt the 40 was a difficult round to shoot and that he felt the 45 acp was a far better easier round to master.
I had never heard anything like that before. Of course there are probably more opinions on the subject than there are members on High Road but,
I'd like to "hear" a few......
Not necessarily, the Steyr M40-A1 has superb ergonomics, an excellent trigger and it's frame has more in common with a G20 than G22, it's built like a tank and weighs in about 27ozs.
First time this grandmother ever shot any type of firearm, no Glock muzzle flip and she hit a two liter bottle @20yds on this Christmas Day shoot......
I have to laugh every time I see this oft discussed topic. Invariably the word "snappy" will get used and abused. I'm 72 and, in addition to several 9mm and .45ACP 1911s, I have two .40 S&W pistols - an SA XD-40 Service and a Commander size RIA 1911. I shoot them all and I have no problem managing recoil or muzzle flip. YMMV
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Many do complain about .40 snappiness which is mostly due to the cartridge shot in 9mm sized guns, personally yeah it does recoil more than 9mm and even more than some .45's, but it's not hard to control at all. I did a side by side recoil comparison between a CM40 Kahr and an XDS .45 Springfield, standard 180gr in .40 and standard 230 in .45 and honestly I couldn't really tell a difference in the amount of recoil, they were essentially the same although the Kahr is a lighter weight gun than the XDS is, so I sort of figured it would recoil more but it didn't.
Another thing I've noticed is that when shooting steel plates that the .40 really hits them hard, and seems to plow them over with more authority than the .45 does, and I'm a BIG fan of both but the .40 does seem to hit harder. I've also noticed with the same cartridge, pistols with a higher bore axis flip back more and can be perceived as having more recoil.
Another thing I've noticed is that when shooting steel plates that the .40 really hits them hard, and seems to plow them over with more authority than the .45 does, and I'm a BIG fan of both but the .40 does seem to hit harder. I've also noticed with the same cartridge, pistols with a higher bore axis flip back more and can be perceived as having more recoil.
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FL-NC
Member
I wouldn't say its "hard to shoot", but if I compared my G17 (9mm full size) G22 (40 full size) and G21SF (45 full size) glocks, the G22 would be the hardest one to shoot with the speed and accuracy that I desire. So, I got rid of the G22.
Chuck R.
Member
I bolded the part I think is why some folks have a different opinion. A lot of shooters simply go to a square range and shoot targets in un-timed fire, so part of the effects of recoil (or in the .40s case "snappiness") is never fully appreciated. They don't run a timer, so they don't get to see the "effect" of a harder to control pistol on splits.
I just started the foray into the .40, and running similar weight guns in 9mm and .40 on the same drill or COF using a timer I can see a difference in times and accuracy.
So I wouldn't call a .40 hard to shoot, but I would call it harder to shoot at least when comparing accuracy AND time.
Chuck
This pretty much mirrors my experience. When I first shot .40 S&W I did, in fact, find its recoil characteristics rather unpleasant. With more experience with the cartridge and improved attention to grip, my accuracy with .40 S&W improved dramatically and I now no longer consider it unpleasant to shoot.
But I do find it less pleasant to shoot than 9mm Para, .45 ACP, or 38 Special, although more pleasant generally than .357 Magnum. I don't practice with a timer but I do practice rapid double taps shot DA/SA with my traditional double action pistols, one of which is a .40 caliber. My first shot and second shot accuracy with the .40 S&W is now probably about as good as with 9mm or .45 ACP, but I am pretty sure that my follow up shots are a bit slower.
ok maybe a lot of people don't shoot precision or don't want to admit it.
I shoot bullseye. That's the one-handed stuff. Shooting the big gun (.45ACP) was something that was a *completely* different experience to me. First off, you lose sight picture in recoil. You have to train yourself to have muscle memory to bring the gun back to the same place every time.
Second the recoil can cause you to jerk the trigger, even if you aren't recoil-adverse. I have shot .40 mangelem and worse revolvers, so it wasn't fear but a response that has to be unlearned.
I'll admit it. It took me over ONE THOUSAND rounds of shooting 45ACP one-handed at 25 yards to the point where I could fire a string of 5 shots in 10 seconds and not hit the target frame!
Shooting .40S&W is slightly harder than shooting .45ACP IMHO, but not by much.
I shoot bullseye. That's the one-handed stuff. Shooting the big gun (.45ACP) was something that was a *completely* different experience to me. First off, you lose sight picture in recoil. You have to train yourself to have muscle memory to bring the gun back to the same place every time.
Second the recoil can cause you to jerk the trigger, even if you aren't recoil-adverse. I have shot .40 mangelem and worse revolvers, so it wasn't fear but a response that has to be unlearned.
I'll admit it. It took me over ONE THOUSAND rounds of shooting 45ACP one-handed at 25 yards to the point where I could fire a string of 5 shots in 10 seconds and not hit the target frame!
Shooting .40S&W is slightly harder than shooting .45ACP IMHO, but not by much.
RustyHammer
Member
I own and have logged 1000's of rounds with each caliber. To me it comes down to this ...
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