.45GAP outperforms .45ACP

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Alan Fud

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According to an article written by Dick Metcalf in the May 2004 issue of Shooting Times magazine on Page 42 ...
  • The new .45GAP (Glock Automatic Pistol) cartridge is more powerful than the .45ACP -- when fired side by side in pistols of the exact same barrel length with same-weight and same style 185-, 200-, and 230-grain bullets, the shorter case .45GAP develops an overall average of 8% more velocity and 14% more energy than the longer case .45ACP cartridge across the board.
  • The .45GAP cartridge surpasses the .45ACP in every category of performance ... (in bold print on page 44)
... Just my luck. I finally stopped carrying S&W's most of the time except for rare occasions and switched to 1911's and something new like the .45GAP comes along. Any rumors of anyone else besides Glock making a gun in this caliber?
 
You don't get something for nothing. The GAP is running at pressures equivalent to .45 ACP +P. The article didn't compare or even mention THAT.
 
No, it's not BS - I've just read the same article. However, the margin of performance is not significant - we're talking 50-80 fps in velocity, or less sometimes. It doesn't mean that the .45 ACP has been rendered obsolete, by any means - it just means that the .45 GAP is not a "neutered" or "short and weak" .45, but can hold its own with its more historic cousin. Certainly, I think the .45 GAP has a future in compact guns, that can't handle the length of the .45 ACP. How about a Kahr PM45? :D :D :D
 
Any data from folks not needing to sell ads for their gun rags?

How many shots were fired for each velocity measurment -- is the 8% statistically significant? Without knowing N and the Standard Deviation of the velocities we can't tell. A simple Student's T test could be done with mean V, N and SD.

I won't be throwing away my 45ACP guns for 8% more velocity!
Could be the difference between broken in 1911 and new GAP gun, or differences in the barrel rifling design as much as the ammo. I'd bet my differerent 1911's show this much "difference".

--wally.
 
Gun Size matters

A Kahr PM45 would be the only thing that would get me to buy a 45 GAP over a any bigger gun in .40 S&W or 45ACP.

--wally
 
Well, since you asked for rumors, SA is supposed to be coming out with an XD chambered in .45GAP sometime this spring.

Mino
 
I'll have to buy the issue, or thumb through it, just to see if there is a full page ad for a Glock 37. ;) If so, the magazine should at least give the appearance of being objective and run the 37 ad the following month.

Increased velocity in a 45 would not be a selling point for me. The ACP is a good blend of power and control. People can buy +P loads or better yet buy a 45 Super, heavy 10mm loads, etc if you really want to do some thumping.

I think Glock didn't quite "get" this one with increased velocity and wider slides...should have gone the other way into thinner/compact guns with lower velocities IMHO.
 
There's also been several articles that show the 45ACP beats the GAP when using standard, off-the-shelf guns.

However, the current ST test used a custom barrel length in the ACP gun (to keep things "fair"). Didn't realize fairness was doctrine in gunfights. Silly me.

And if they wanted to be "fair", why didn't they also compare a custom barreled GAP to a standard 1911? What kbr80 said.

Now, was this difference in barrel length enough to skew the results? Who knows (see my first PP). And who cares? Half-inch holes are half-inch holes provided you put them where they belong.

I'd like to see how the GAP does vs. the ACP in a 3" bbl. Short cartridge and half-inch holes would make for a nice belly gun.
 
Here We Go...

With more "Caliber Wars"..which will sell more gun rags and keep the
publishers busy coming up with more "How does it stack up against the (pick your caliber) round?":rolleyes:

As for energy and velocity...the 9mm Parabellum has been "beating"
the .45 for years. So has the good old .38 Super.

Marketing? Probably. The GAP has jumped into a saturated market, and
it's got a few tough acts to follow. It has to be hyped, or risk dying a
rather colorless death. Investors get nervous over that kind of thing.

Compare the .44 and .41 Magnums...Both rounds loaded to their potential
with standard weight-for-the-caliber bullets, (220 vs 240) the .44 beats
the .41 by about 7% or so...SO? Whatever is hit solidly with either won't
be able to tell the difference, and both will be just as dead, just as quickly.

Some will jump on the bandwagon and some won't. For me, the .45 ACP
is like a comfortable pair of shoes. The GAP will fill a niche...IF...some
smart engineer will come up with a solid, portable and comfortable
pistol to take the round. For those who like the Glock, they already
have it. For those of use who like something else...we'll wait and see.
Something on the order of the Star PD or the Beretta M-84 would be
very nice indeed. If that were to happen, old farts like me might
buy one...as a BUG to our big Colts.:p

Just my 2% of a buck...

Tuner
 
Gadzooks!

Yeah, Dick said the 10mm was gonna be the LE cartridge of the future too. He was almost right; just didn't see that shorter and weaker case they put it in coming. ;)

You can get a variation on 8% between lots of the same ammo, or between individual rounds in the same box of the same ammo.

BBls vary too. I've seen a S&W 4006 w 4 in bbl shoot ammo from the same box/lot faster than a G22 w a 4.5 in bbl. And a Ruger P91 w 4.5 in bbl shoot the same ammo faster than both...

In bbls of the same length, the GAP does what the ACP does w more pressure. At the same pressure, the ACP does more. Both have a max pressure limit of 23,000 psi. So far.

From my G37:

185/45 GD 1040 fps
200/45 GD 970 fps

From my G21:

185/45 GD 1035
200/45 GD +P 1050 fps
185/45 +P CB 1135 fps
230/45 +P XTP 940 fps

I doubt the Win 230 Ranger T from a G37 will beat the 230 Ranger T from a G21 by much, the 230 +P Ranger T not at all.

What Winchester says they do:

230 RT GAP 885 fps

11.6/.75

230 RT ACP 885 fps

11.6/.75

230 RT +P ACP 990 fps

13.2/.79

OTOH, folks don't seem to like ACP +P for defense/duty anymore than they liked the full power 10mm, so...

The GAP may do to the ACP what the 40 did to the 10; time will tell?

I still like the 9 minimeter better than both, so there! :D
 
How much more pressure/felt recoil/increase in split times do you need to get that 8% advantage? There is no such thing as a free lunch.
 
re: Time Will Tell

T'was said:

The GAP may do to the ACP what the 40 did to the 10;
------------------------------

I wouldn't bet the farm on that. The 7.62/.308 was supposed to obsolete
the '06...but the old round is still hangin' tough after all these years.
I'd venture to say that if the 10 had a 70+ year foothold before the
.40 came along, there would have been a much different outcome.

The GAP will not only have to prove that it has enough of an advantage over the BAP round (Browning Auto Pistol):p it will have to be offered
in something besides the Glock AND generate enough of a following
to warrant tooling up to churn out huge numbers of magazines and other
necessary accessories in quantities that would make them attractively priced. In other words...don't bet the farm on it.

No doubt that the GAP will have a following, especially if it generates
enough of an interest for other gunmakers to come up with their own
design...for those of us who can't live with the Glock's ergonomics.
Tooling up for a design that takes a completely new cartridge isn't
something that a company will likely do on speculation. I don't really
see existing designs modified to take the round, except maybe in a conversion kit...and that will probably be an aftermarket "Drop-In"
arrangement.

But...We wait and see.

Tuner
 
OK...

... the GAP may do to the ACP what the 40 did to the 10, and the .308/7.62 NATO did to the 06, in military/police service use. ;)

Much easier to come up w 10 shot .45 caliber pistol in GAP than ACP too. All ya really need is half a new gun, not a whole new gun. If ya are already making a .45, even less, just a modified ACP bbl and 9/40 mags... put it in your ACP slide, and put that on the 9/40 frames ya already make, and put the GAP ammo in modified 9/40 mags ya already make...

Why we are gonna see a XD in GAP before ACP, and may never see one in ACP now?

OTOH, the GAP is still .45 fat, and it still generates .45 momentum and slide velocity, so there is a limit on how small and light the GAP guns can be. The G37 only has a slightly narrower/thinner grip than the G21. In other guns, would be even less of a difference from their 45s.

A USP compact in 40 has 12 shots (LE), 8 in ACP. The GAP would only have 8 in either frame, be slower than the ACP +P from the shorter bbl...
 
well, hs is... ;)

it's my understanding that the xd45 should be available by the end of the year.

(i'd rather have an xd40)
 
At last! The Magic Swordâ„¢is ready. Are you? /marketing hype :evil:
 
Last edited:
Posted by 45auto: ... I'll have to buy the issue, or thumb through it, just to see if there is a full page ad for a Glock 37 ...
Click to expand...
I just went to check because I was curious myself and there was not a single Glock ad of any size in the entire magazine for anything. Taurus, though, has an interesting looking ad on page 7 for something called "24/7" -- it comes in .40S&W and 9mm.
 
I read that article, too:
comparing a chopped-down (rifled) 1911 barrel to a factory (polygonal) Glock 37 barrel would likely explain the slight difference in velocities. Why not chop down a longer Glock barrel in 45 ACP as the comparison to the shorter G37 GAP barrel? Didn't make much sense to me to use a 1911 vs. Glock and say that was "as fair as we could make it."
 
Hype?

! What does the .45 Gap have? Hype!

Well...so far, there's no "street" record to draw any conclusions from...but
a 200-grain 45 caliber slug at a thousand+ fps fer dang sure wouldn't
do a body any favors.
:uhoh:

Cheers!

Tuner
 
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