5.56 for home defense?

[Dollar An Hour]

I had a conversation with my FFL last week that got me thinking.

Background - I live in a townhouse and share walls with neighbors.

My current HD piece is an 870P with Fiocchi low recoil 00 Buck. Also have handy a Glock 19 with 124gr Gold Dots, my carry weapon.

I understand either one of these is likely to keep on going through the BG and into my neighbors house? So maybe I need to reevaluate choice of HD weapon...

My friend feels that the light weight high velocity 5.56 is the way to go in my situation to minimize over penetration of both BG and the house itself to avoid any tragedy.

Does this make sense? Go to a 5.56 for the main HD weapon and keep the 870P for other possible SHTF scenarios?

 

[RP88]

other option: use #4 buckshot in your 870

 

[Kind of Blued]

It depends. Are you gonna miss?

I recently decided that a handgun is the way to go for me. Having a long gun as an option is good, but I'll ALWAYS have a handgun near my bed, preferably something high-capacity, with a light and laser mounted.

I decided this the other night when I woke up having slept on my arm wrong. It was completely asleep and useless. If someone had woken me up while breaking in, and all I had was a long gun, I would have been pretty much screwed.

An 870 is just about ideal for HD in my mind. There's nothing wrong with that or your G19, and very few advantages that an AR (presumably) could give you over those two options.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Stick with the 870, but switch to No. 2, No. 3, or No. 4 buckshot, instead of 00 buck. Maybe even FF or F buckshot.

Probably better off running with No. 4 Buckshot, as the best balance of power vs. overpenetration concerns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckshot

The box o' truth proved that the standard 5.56 ammo still penetrates like 12 pieces of drywall. But, if you run with expensive frangible ammo, then the 5.56 carbine is a good choice in your situation.

It depends. Are you gonna miss?

Ok, weisenheimer...classic!

And, as always.... shotgun is for staying in place and waiting for 911 (defending a static position), handgun is for exploring (room clearing). You don't do the latter unless you *really* need to - that makes the shotgun the *primary* weapon. IMO.

 

[jpatterson]

+1 #4 Buck

 

[MTMilitiaman]

Anything capable of achieving adequate penetration on a human assailant is going to penetrate several typically constructed interior walls.

If something doesn't penetrate several interior walls, i.e frangible, lightweight varmint bullets in the 5.56, or birdshot in the shotgun, it probably isn't going to penetrate sufficiently in tissue to insure the threat is stopped.

So use what you feel more confident in. I prefer rifles, so I would opt for the 5.56 loaded with the heaviest OTM round that would fit in my magazines and stabilize with the twist rate of my rifle. If you're more confident in your ability to place shots accurately with the shotgun, then use it. If you're really worried about over penetration, you can move down to #4 buck, as suggested.

Bottom line, misses with anything adequate are going to be dangerous to you and everyone around you. Use what you feel you will miss less with, and plan your response to a home invasion to set you up with shot angles that don't place others in immediate risk.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Well, that is good advice too.

 

[Bubba613]

Seems like you can solve your problem one of two ways:
1) Buy an AR or other platform for 5.56. Cost-$650 and up. Buy SD ammo for it at $20+a box. Spend time learning the gun and getting proficient with it.

2) Buy a $5 box of #4 buck and load your 870 with it.

Your choice.

 

[Dollar An Hour]

Thanks... Can you guys recommend a good #4 buck load? Preferably a low recoil load.

 

[WardenWolf]

While a 5.56 weapon is a good thing to have, and being in Arizona, a castle doctrine state, you don't need to worry about being charged for defending your home, the shotgun is probably a better choice. I wouldn't go with a low-recoil load, though, as shot is a lot more dependent on powder charge to be effective than recoil-managed rifle rounds.

It really depends on your viewpoint. A shotgun is more likely to seriously screw up the interior of your house just the same as the burglar, but a rifle round may not have the same instant stopping power.

 

[madcratebuilder]

870 and #4 buck or even bird shot for that matter.

 

[SnakeLogan]

In close quarters, you want instant incapacitation. The only way to achieve that is to disrupt the CNS (done by hitting the brain or spinal column). Headshots are unrealistic, so you aim COM. Your chance of hitting the CNS is 9x better (or 18 or 30x better depending on what buckshot load you use) with the shotgun.

 

[SaMx]

anything effective will go through a wall or two. If you feel comfortable with the 870 stick with it, I think a 5.56 carbine and a shotgun will be close enough in effectiveness that it doesn't matter.

 

[Seafarer12]

A 223 loaded with varmint grenades would work well in a condo but I agree #4 buck would clear out any bad guys.

 

[Zach S]

If its capable of stopping a bad guy, its capable of going through several walls. If it wont go through a wall, I wouldn't even think of using it for defense.

#4 buck might work well, if you get decent patterns out of it. I dont. Patterns tend to grow with smaller shot, so while the smaller shot might be less likely to go through a wall, its also less likely that all the shot will hit the target. Any shot smaller than 1B tends to open up quite a bit in my 590. However, LE133, LE132, and H132 pattern really tight (8 to 12" spread at 25 yards) so I have high expectations for patterns.

The lady of the house cant use the shotgun (too long, too front heavy, too much recoil), so it normally sleeps in the safe. I have three ARs, my gtg which is a 5.56, a 9mm for more affordable, realistic practice, and a rimfire which is dirt cheap to feed. Therefore, most of our triggertime is behind an AR, and we use the AR loaded with 75gr TAP for HD.

Handguns are compromise guns. I carry one while out and about because I cant carry a longarm. For HD, I have a rifle available, so I dont see me reaching for a pistol.

 

[mljdeckard]

I'm in a brick house, and I STILL keep my 870 loaded with #4 as my primary for HD.

 

[MarineNCO26]

OK going into real world experience... At close range in Iraq ive seen 5.56 ammo go through a lot of SH** Long Rifles are designed for distance and some are designed to if need be, be used in doors. I live in an apartment and have many wall neighbors lol The best thing for home defense is a shotgun. You can change loads and what not to find what fits your needs. You do not want to shoot a zillion rounds out of an assault rifle if you live anywhere. When it comes to those situations if you have never been in the Military or law enforcement chances are you will react in a panic and just start blazing rounds all over and most likely not hit anything. People get into handgun shootouts at point blank range and jerk the weapon so much they don't hit a thing. I have my Kimber Desert Warrior in my nightstand in case I can not get to the shotgun in the closet. Trust me I have been in bad places at close quarters I do not plan on missing, but just in case its why I have the shotgun. Oh and a light is the last thing you want if you want to get the drop on an intruder that is what night sights are for. If you have a light do not shine it until you are ready to spot light your target!

JUST MY 2 CENTS

 

[BornAgainBullseye]

yea... shoot 00 buck into drywall point blank. look at the pattern on the next wall. It is like the drywall was never there. I take the 5.56 any day of the week. and if the fight has to go to the yard and down the street and into a combat zone..... on and on and on..... good post on the #4 buck. BB would be good as well if you had to use a SG. I would go for the DRAGON's breath. My wife would be behind me with a fire extinguisher.

 

[David904]

It isn't so much a matter of what platform is better, but rather your choice of ammunition. Military ball ammo is designed for maximum penetration. And that makes it a poor choice for home defense. An M4/AR15 - or any rifle, for that matter, is a fine choice for home defense if you load it with the right kind of rounds.

Shotguns are fine too. They have a broad range of different loads to apply to various scenarios. The very real shortcoming of a shotgun is that the follow-up shots are much slower and less accurate. Plus they have a tougher recoil. This can work against the smaller or less experienced shooter. THis is why I opt for the AR15.

And a light is essential. It has to be used appropriately. If you use one like the headlights on a car, you're going to lose the encounter. If you use it to spotlight your target, then you can avoid shooting a friendly - such as your child sneaking back into the house. It can also blind your opponent and give you the edge.

 

[gentleman987]

penetration is going to be your problem

 

[H2O MAN]

75 grain 5.56 Hornady TAP FPDs should be just fine

 

[japaneezy]

run the .223 Hornady TAP FPDs in em. I have my "home defense" mag loaded with 20 rounds of the stuff at all times.

The black nickel coating inhibits corrosion when stored for long periods of time and also supposedly help with smoother loading. This bullet is designed for expansion when it hits the target.

 

[Ignition Override]

If somebody makes a firm decision on a rifle instead of a handgun or shotgun for home defense, does a person need the accuracy and high price of an AR, if other rifles are just as reliable/rugged at a much lower price?

How about an SKS 'paratrooper' using soft lead points?
Many people recommend one of the better M-1 Carbines with soft lead.
With the x39 round used in many more total rifles, an SKS with a shortened barrel, or even an AK might offer an effective weapon.

 

[mljdeckard]

I also have an M-1 carbine, which I consider ideal for HD, but at the same time, I only have it because I inherited it. Otherwise I probably wouldn't get around to buying one.

My SKS is my usual truck gun, I suppose one of the shorter AKs would be at least as good as an AR, but I would look to see if there are dedicated loads like TAP for it.

 

[coloradokevin]

I guess I always have to somewhat agree with the old adage that "if it will penetrate enough to stop a human, it can penetrate enough to cause other problems".

Personally, I believe that shot placement is critical, as is knowing what you face behind your target as a backstop. Luckily for me, I live in an all brick house with only my wife. My most likely shot in a midnight intruder situation would involve a shot in a direction that would carry the bullet through the entire length of my house (the bedroom door faces out towards a wall, which leads to another room, followed by my kitchen wall, followed by my garage).

I've been around long enough to know that combat isn't ever perfect, and things don't always happen as planned. But, I believe it is critical to always consider what lies beyond your target, in the event that your bullet decides to find out!

IMHO, my .223 Federal TRU (55gr BTHP) isn't likely to go through a bad-guy, drywall, and a brick wall. But, someone else's situation may be vastly different than mine (like the OP, who lives in an townhome).