6.5 Grendel: AR vs Bolt action?

[swampcrawler]

So I've pretty much decided that I want a Grendel as my primary hog/deer rifle. My hunting is all under 200 yards with 90% being closer to 40 yards max. I love the low recoil and good terminal effectiveness of the Grendel.

Where I'm having trouble is selecting the platform. The Grendel was of course designed for the AR. But with the fairly easy rebarreling of a cz 527 or just purchasing the new Howa Mini Action already set up for the Grendel, bolt action is definitely an option.

My thinking is that the bolt guns would be perhaps a bit lighter, easier on brass. But the 527 and the Howa don't have a huge aftermarket for things such as good lightweight synthetic stocks and excellent triggers, whereas with an AR the world of accessories and upgrades are only a click of the mouse and a 5 minute install away.

I'd just like to see if anyone has any thoughts on the topic to help me make the decision.

 

[Fla_dogman]

I would strongly suggest the AR platform when possible, yes it might be a little heavier, but the quick follow-up shots are a big advantage in hog hunting. I'm a believer in the accuracy of the AR, IMHO it's almost as accurate as my bolts. BTW i hunt with the .223 in an AR platform, most of the time my bolts stay at home

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk

 

[TRX]

I'm a big fan of 6.5mm, and I have a rifle in 6.5 Grendel... but if you're looking at a bolt action, you have a lot more options if you're willing to consider 6.5x55. The '55 is mostly known as a milsurp Mauser round in the USA, but most sporting bolt actions sold in the USA have been (sometimes only briefly) available in the caliber.

Good-quality hunting ammunition is off-the-shelf from every major manufacturer and it's still Wal-Mart and LGS stuff in my area.

If you reload, the '55 is flexible and tolerant of a wide variety of powders and pressures.

 

[fireman 9731]

The benefit of the Grendel in a CZ 527 or Howa over the x55 is the true micro-mauser action. Its a compact setup.

I looked into a Grendel AR setup but parts started adding up quickly and I decided to wait until CZ makes the 527 with a Grendel barrel. Its just a matter of time until they do. No changes are necessary for the magazine or bolt face, Just a simple barrel change.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

As TRX said, there are better calibers for a bolt gun than a Grendel, though it is a light recoiling (relative) round that is effective on hogs. I have considered the CZ or Howa as I already have Grendel AR15s.

If you are stuck on the caliber, then my question concerns what sort of hog hunting you do. Are you a meat hunter? The bolt gun will be fine. Are you a depredation hunter trying to protect your property from hog damage by sounders? Get the AR15.

I am not sure of the weight issue for you and how that plays into your concern or needs. If you are planning long packing/hiking hunts, get a bolt gun. If you are just worried about the heft and offhand shooting, you could probably use some shooting sticks and that will apply for either bolt or AR15.

 

[Minnesota Wild]

If you're set on the Grendel I would think the AR would be best. There are better clamberings for bolt guns if you wanted to go out further, but for a gun designed to max at 200 yards you could build something marginally if any heavier than a bolt gun and have the added benefit of semi-auto. To the extent the bolt is easier on brass that wouldn't effect my decision.

 

[Corn-Picker]

Both the Howa trigger (two stage) and CZ trigger (single with set option) are excellent. I own both, I couldn't see an upgraded trigger being any better for a hunting rifle. I'd go with the Howa as rebarreling the CZ is going to make it a $1200 rifle.

 

[Llama Bob]

The Grendel in the AR platform is junk - depending on which mis-design you choose, it either breaks extractors or bolt lugs. It's too big for the action. This can be remedied on bolt rifles, but as you noticed the options are limited.

Just get a .260 in your favorite bolt rifle and call it good. You'll be in a much better caliber on a much more supported platform. 6.5x55 is another choice that I'd take long before 6.5 Grendel, even though it does require a long action.

 

[Huntolive]

Ok llama bob and folks, so what is your data asserting 6.5 is junk that breaks itself? and please tell more about the properties and capabilities of .260. Can that be mounted on an AR complete lower? Who makes/sells them?

 

[goon]

The .260 is based on the .308 Winchester, so it's basically a .308 necked down to a .26 caliber bullet. Better barrel life than a .243 and more energy downrange, but more flat shooting than a .308. It won't fit on an AR-15 lower - you have to use a AR-10 length action.

 

[rayatphonix]

Swamp crawler, I have the Grendel in both platforms. I will hunt with the bolt action as I don't need the semi-auto feature when shooting deer. It's easier and lighter to carry. Howa should have their Grendel rifles out very soon. I built mine from a CZ and it's wonderful but $$.

I also have a 6.5 Creedmoor and 260 Remington. I've killed deer with both.

 

[Llama Bob]

Ok llama bob and folks, so what is your data asserting 6.5 is junk that breaks itself? and please tell more about the properties and capabilities of .260. Can that be mounted on an AR complete lower? Who makes/sells them?

The bolt issue comes about because the 5.56 bolt is already at the hairy edge in terms of strength. This has been well documented by the military over the service life of the M16/M4. That's why we MPI bolts, make them out of special steels with special heat treatments instead of normal chrome molly ordinance steel, etc.

The problem is that at SAAMI max pressure, the bolt thrust of 6.5 Grendel is about 30% more than the bolt thrust of 5.56 M855. In other words, every single 6.5 Grendel round is like a 5.56 proof load from the bolt's perspective unless you work well below SAAMI pressure.

The problem gets worse though. Since the Grendel case head is bigger than 5.56 both in terms of diameter and depth, steel has to actually be removed from the bolt in two dimensions to make the case head fit. This is the type 1 mis-design as sold by Alexander Arms, and results in the most broken bolts. The alternative is to only remove steel in the diameter dimension, and "borrow" the extra depth needed from the extractor, also thereby requiring the chamber be cut deeper. This is the type 2 mis-design. It has fewer broken bolts (although it's still FAR worse than 5.56) but also breaks extractors. Les Baer is the champion of this bad idea.

.260 is simply .308 necked down for 6.5mm projectiles. It can be run in any platform that .308 works in. There are numerous vendors for AR versions - I've shot the Armalite, DPMS and GAP offerings with good results. The GAP was nicest, but comes with a substantial wait and cost obviously. I would recommend a fast twist - at least 1:8, maybe even 1:7.5 or 1:7

 

[crazysccrmd]

You'll be fine with an AR15 in 6.5 Grendel. For hog hunting you will definitely appreciate the fast follow up shots compared to a bolt action. The worst a broken bolt or extractor will do is end your hunt or range time early and it is unlikely to occur. Sure, it's more likely than with a 5.56 or 6.8 but it's still not that common. Llama Bob is making it out to sound worse than it is.

 

[SuperNaut]

For TYPE I Grendel users get a spare 7.62x39 bolt for $44.

For TYPE II users get a spare bolt for $75.

Think of it as a wear part, reload like a thinking human, and let the naysayers bang their gavels and waggle their wigs while you are out shooting.

 

[swampcrawler]

Thanks for the thoughts guys. As for what kind of hog hunter I am, just a meat hunter. I hunt thick brush and usually only get one shot. They only have to move a few yards to be obscured by brush again.

As for choosing another cartridge, I'm also strongly considering a 257 WBY, but as much as I love the screaming 25, a rifle that does it justice would be kind of a pain to drag through the thick stuff.

I hunted with a 308 all through childhood. 16 deer and 14 of them were bang flop. One of the others was shot with an FMJ. long story. The other was shot on the run and stuck the lungs rather than breaking shoulders so she ran 50 yards or so. I know how brutally effective the simple 308 is, and have no doubt about the 260, 6.5 creedmore, 6.5x55, ect.

I like the Grendel due to its low recoil, low blast, reasonable ammo and component cost, and of course the don't see it every day factor. I tend to shoot much better with a very low recoil rifle.

I'm going to keep researching different cartridge options as well as the Grendel for the time being. Thanks guys!!

 

[Corn-Picker]

Don't discount the 7.62x39. Cheap practice ammo, and enough velocity/energy to kill out to 200 yards. The Grendel is obviously the better choice for longer shots or in windy conditions.

 

[Olympus]

If you are considering a Grendel in a bolt action, I would rather go with a 243 instead.

 

[barnbwt]

For TYPE I Grendel users get a spare 7.62x39 bolt for $44.

For TYPE II users get a spare bolt for $75.

Think of it as a wear part, reload like a thinking human, and let the naysayers bang their gavels and waggle their wigs while you are out shooting.

Since Grendel has a thicker rim than x39, you're also sacrificing some extraction reliability going this route (that, and the cheap x39 bolts aren't usually the recommended 9130 alloy). The rim geometry is supposedly why the Grendel bolt was cut a bit deeper.

TCB

 

[rayatphonix]

Swamp, let me know if you find a cartridge you like more. As I mentioned I've hunted with many cartridges but have now settled on the Grendel for nearly all my hunting. It does most everything I need in a very lightweight, accurate rifle. Good luck.

 

[crazysccrmd]

Thanks for the thoughts guys. As for what kind of hog hunter I am, just a meat hunter. I hunt thick brush and usually only get one shot. They only have to move a few yards to be obscured by brush again.

As for choosing another cartridge, I'm also strongly considering a 257 WBY, but as much as I love the screaming 25, a rifle that does it justice would be kind of a pain to drag through the thick stuff.

I hunted with a 308 all through childhood. 16 deer and 14 of them were bang flop. One of the others was shot with an FMJ. long story. The other was shot on the run and stuck the lungs rather than breaking shoulders so she ran 50 yards or so. I know how brutally effective the simple 308 is, and have no doubt about the 260, 6.5 creedmore, 6.5x55, ect.

I like the Grendel due to its low recoil, low blast, reasonable ammo and component cost, and of course the don't see it every day factor. I tend to shoot much better with a very low recoil rifle.

I'm going to keep researching different cartridge options as well as the Grendel for the time being. Thanks guys!!

Reload? How about a 25x6.8/6.35x43? Something different than what most people have and works well on hogs and medium game.

 

[SuperNaut]

Since Grendel has a thicker rim than x39, you're also sacrificing some extraction reliability going this route (that, and the cheap x39 bolts aren't usually the recommended 9130 alloy). The rim geometry is supposedly why the Grendel bolt was cut a bit deeper.

TCB

The one I linked to is 9310.

The difference is .059 vs. .057, but the extractor doesn't seem to notice. Not for 1000 rounds and counting.

 

[CB900F]

Swampcrawler;

I'm another fan of the 6.5 X 55mm Swedish Mauser. If you want it in a semi-auto, get the Swedish Ljungman mil-surp. If you want a bolt gun, there are a fairly large number of possibilities in today's market. Mine happens to be a custom gun on a Tikka action, but there's CZ, Sako, and others. In the past both Remington & Winchester have produced guns in the caliber, and Tikka makes several versions now.

As for it's effectiveness, my handload has a muzzle velocity of 2750 fps, and the Sierra 140 grain GameKing carries over 1100 ft. lbs. of energy past 500 yards. I live in Montana, hunt elk with it every year, & don't feel undergunned.