6 rounds of .44 or 7 rounds of .357/38?

[GBExpat]

What an attacker would see: ...

Strange. When I first looked at the pic you posted my kneejerk response was along the lines of, "WHOA! FUGLY!" ... but ... the more that I look at the pics, the more I find myself become intrigued by that decidedly different-looking wheelgun.

 

[GEM]

Shoot each in a few IDPA matches or similar venues. See what works in terms of hitting the target and time to get good hits.

I'm repeating what I said before. Which do you shoot best under pressure? All this stopping power talk is secondary between the two rounds. People like to talk about it because it avoid the need to discuss skill levels.

 

[Gordon]

speed loader od for 242 and 296 are both the same so I have no idea what you are talking about. A J frame 5 shot .38 speedloader is much smaller. The 242 FWIW is branded .38+P and seems to readily digest +p+ ammo out of it's 2.5" barrel . I used to practice with the 242 alot when I was carrying the 296 about 10 years back, heck of a lot cheaper and less painful to shoot than the .44.

 

[shafter]

I'd take seven rounds of premium 38 ammo.

 

[vonmark]

Availibity of .44 special

I would only go with the .38 because it would seem to me that .44 special rounds are pretty hard to come by most places. You can find good high grade .38 +P hollow points everywhere, even Walmart.

 

[Reloadron]

On average self defense shootings take place within 7 yards or a distance of 21 feet, most are much closer. On average the number of shots fired is Two. Granted these are averages but if I run with the averages I'll take the 44 Special with six over seven of the other.

If the defender fires any shots, most likely it will be 2 rounds.
The shooting distance in the vast majority of cases was slightly in excess of arm's length.

There are dozens of references out there but I figure on average inside 21 feet (most much closer) and on average 2 rounds fired (with the exception of those who empty the gun).

My choice of the larger 44 Special assumes adequate supply of either cartridge. Truthfully, I could flip a coin because either cartridge would likely fare just fine.

Ron

 

[stu1ritter]

So the patrolman was asked why he carried a .45. He said because they don't make a .46...

6 rounds of .44 Special for me please.

Stu

 

[mp510]

I often carry a 5 shot .44 special. Sometimes I will carry a 6 shot .44 Magnum. I shot an ICORE match with my .44 Magnum. Every other shooter was using a 9mm or .38. The .38 allows for much faster follow up shots and in rapid fire allows for better shot placement because of that reduced recovery time relative to a .44 (that said, I can control the .44 pretty well). Even though the .38 has a lot of benefits there is something about the .44 that I personally prefer.

 

[Old judge creek]

I vote for the extra round although IMO and experience 6 vs 7 is a bogus question.

My all time favorite wilderness packing gun is my 3" 629 S&W Trail Boss. It has served me well for close to 20 years and compared to many folks I am able to spend an inordinate amount of time "in the bush".

OTOH: In many a wilderness campsite, or around my property, or anywhere on my ranch, I believe I am adequately armed when all I have with me is one of my S&W J Frames.

Regardless, if I am heeled, I have an appropriate reload at hand... and THAT's the correct answer to your question, in my personal opinion.

 

[peacebutready]

Regardless, if I am heeled, I have an appropriate reload at hand... and THAT's the correct answer to your question, in my personal opinion.

Agreed

 

[fastbolt]

... All this stopping power talk is secondary between the two rounds. People like to talk about it because it avoid the need to discuss skill levels.

Not uncommon, unfortunately.

Kind of like the owners of high performance cars & bikes who lack the driving skills to do anything more than drive them from one point to another, as long as it happens under "normal" conditions without any exigent circumstances.

Also, some folks just seem to like debating their favorite handgun/caliber, like some owners like to demonstrate pride-of-ownership in any other material possession.

 

[stubbicatt]

I was confronted with this question recently, and made the choice for a S&W 586 L-Comp, a 357 magnum, 7 shot, revolver with a 3 inch barrel.

For situations where I open carry in the forest, I carry a 44 Magnum single action in a belt holster. For the situation that confronts me every day in the city, I have determined that the choice of open carry is undesirable for my circumstances.

For every day carry, I have a S&W 22-4 which I carry AIWB. It is big, but pretty concealable in this mode. Uses moon clips for a pretty quick reload, should that be necessary. I have confidence in this choice, and consider the 45 ACP cartridge to be the rough equivalent of 44 Special if one were to make such a comparison.

My decision to put the 7 shot 357 magnum into the rotation took into account the effectiveness of the cartridge, the simplicity of the manual of arms of the revolver, and the additional shot should it be necessary. I do not feel under armed with the 45 ACP, but I am old enough to remember the "one shot stop" statistics concerning the 357 magnum, which, with the addition of another shot before a reload, tilted the scales in that direction. The smaller profile of the 586, with a round butt and a shorter barrel tends to make it a little more concealable, and given my body build opens the possibility of using a pancake holster OWB and a jacket.

I think the 44 Special is a dandy cartridge, but in the situation of a revolver I have become fond of the moon clip as a means of keeping reloads well organized and easily put into use. As far as I know, I am unaware of a 44 Special revolver with the feature of moon clips. -So I guess factors extraneous to the initial question were as important in my decision than simply the chambering of the revolver.

As Gus McRae said in Lonesome Dove, "I don't want to be killed for lack of shooting back."

 

[CraigC]

No, I think one can make an excellent case that the BEST 9mm loads will outperform the BEST 44spc loads, or that even the BEST .38spc loads will at least match the BEST 44spc loads.

Utter nonsense. There is nothing the 9mm or .38Spl can do to make up for the lack of diameter and mass. The smaller rounds are absolutely dependent on textbook bullet expansion to be effective. The .44 is already big enough.

...but the annals of military history are filled with spectacular failures of the 45acp.

Any reference to .45 hardball in military use is completely irrelevant. Sorry but this only works if comparing hardball to hardball. In which case bigger is always better. If you're going to compare the .45ACP to modern defense loads in the 9mm, .38Spl or .357, then it is only relevant to compare it to modern defensive loads in the .45ACP. In which case, bigger is still better.

Nearly all the destructive energy of the bullet is transferred to the body.

Energy transfer is more nonsense. Energy does not create wound channels, bullets do. Give me an exit wound any day of the week.

The heavier 158gr JHP rounds carry too much penetration and recoil that's more difficult for the shooter to recover from. It's a good load in bear country and for hunting, but is a poor human self defense round.

More nonsense. The 158gr is barely adequate for deer. Forget it when bears are involved.

 

[Jlr2267]

Utter nonsense. There is nothing the 9mm or .38Spl can do to make up for the lack of diameter and mass. The smaller rounds are absolutely dependent on textbook bullet expansion to be effective. The .44 is already big enough.



Any reference to .45 hardball in military use is completely irrelevant. Sorry but this only works if comparing hardball to hardball. In which case bigger is always better. If you're going to compare the .45ACP to modern defense loads in the 9mm, .38Spl or .357, then it is only relevant to compare it to modern defensive loads in the .45ACP. In which case, bigger is still better.



Energy transfer is more nonsense. Energy does not create wound channels, bullets do. Give me an exit wound any day of the week.



More nonsense. The 158gr is barely adequate for deer. Forget it when bears are involved.

Energy transfer matters. It's what creates stretch cavities. I'm not saying it's the most important consideration, only that it certainly matters to the subject catching the bullet.

 

[CraigC]

No it doesn't. What one person interprets as the bullet "transferring all its energy", another interprets as over-expansion leading to under-penetration. What matters is how big a hole the bullet makes and in what. We would all be better off if any reference to "energy" were left completely out of the discussion.

 

[Jlr2267]

No it doesn't. What one person interprets as the bullet "transferring all its energy", another interprets as over-expansion leading to under-penetration. What matters is how big a hole the bullet makes and in what. We would all be better off if any reference to "energy" were left completely out of the discussion.

I won't argue physics with you...it is what it is. Energy transfer is what damages tissue, by both bullet penetration and stretch cavity. Tissue does not create its own hole or stretch by itself...it takes bullet energy to do it.

That said, a bullet dumping all its energy in the target is not necessarily more damaging than one passing through completely. I do agree with you that penetration is the best criteria, and I'll take that any day over a low penetration expanding bullet, but to simply say energy does not matter is incorrect, whether you like the physics or not.

 

[CraigC]

People love "energy" because they think it can be used to quantify terminal effectiveness. It cannot. The problem is not physics, it's when people think that simple physics can be used to quantify terminal ballistics. We're not talking about what makes a roller coaster work or how bullets fly through the atmosphere. We're talking about how bullets poke holes in an extremely variable medium. The quantity of energy used within the target or remaining when the bullet exits is irrelevant. Yes, I know what it is and how it works but that number, whatever it is, doesn't tell us anything. Because two bullets might use the same amount of energy on the target with drastically different results. Because two bullets might have drastically different energy levels yet yield the same results on the target. And jacketed bullets aren't rated with energy levels. They're rated by velocity.

So the notion that a bullet that doesn't exit is more effective because it "transfers all its energy to the target" and one that exits is less effective because it "wastes energy" is 100% bogus.

 

[Barry the Bear]

I tend to agree with craigc in this one, he's basically repeating what people like elmer keith and Jeff Cooper said. I'd rather have the two holes for a faster bleed out in hunting and defense especially in a big caliber.

 

[dickydalton]

I have 1 .380 LCP, 1 9mm LC9S, and an SP101. I conceal/carry one of them normally every day. If I think I am going somewhere that may be more dangerous for some reason I carry my Mountain Revolver 44 or Colt Officers 45ACP and one of the others as backup.

 

[RJM]

I'd take 7 of 38 special...or .357 magnum over the .44 offerings. I shoot those better and can find ammo for it really easily if I run out.

The seven rounds is just gravy on top of that...I have six shooters too.

Honestly though, my winner is the .327 fed mag over either of these rounds for carry...in a 3" Ruger sp101.

 

[mongoslow]

one of my carry guns is a 5 shot .44 spc Rossi M720, loaded with a Speer 200 gr.JHP or a Underwood 190 gr,SWC, recoil is really not a factor and what I hit with it hits the ground so yeah I trust it.

 

[Jlr2267]

People love "energy" because they think it can be used to quantify terminal effectiveness. It cannot. The problem is not physics, it's when people think that simple physics can be used to quantify terminal ballistics. We're not talking about what makes a roller coaster work or how bullets fly through the atmosphere. We're talking about how bullets poke holes in an extremely variable medium. The quantity of energy used within the target or remaining when the bullet exits is irrelevant. Yes, I know what it is and how it works but that number, whatever it is, doesn't tell us anything. Because two bullets might use the same amount of energy on the target with drastically different results. Because two bullets might have drastically different energy levels yet yield the same results on the target. And jacketed bullets aren't rated with energy levels. They're rated by velocity.

So the notion that a bullet that doesn't exit is more effective because it "transfers all its energy to the target" and one that exits is less effective because it "wastes energy" is 100% bogus.

You are correct, its not simple at all. In fact, it is very complicated. But unless one is willing to say that bullet mass and bullet velocity don't matter, one cannot say that energy doesn't matter...those things are intimately tied together.

I don't think your last statement above has been offered as a claim by anyone in this thread so I'm not sure who you are arguing the point with.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I don't think one round makes all that much difference. When I carry a revolver CCW (which isn't often), I usually carry a Colt DS, which is a 6-shooter.

If I wanted more than 6, I'd go with an automatic. For example, my usual carry gun is an M1911, with an 8 round magazine. With one up the spout, that's 9 rounds -- and when those are gone, it's lots faster to reload than a revolver.

 

[CraigC]

I don't think your last statement above has been offered as a claim by anyone in this thread so I'm not sure who you are arguing the point with.

It's a logical conclusion.

 

[Confederate]

I'd imagine the difference in human reaction between being shot by a .38 and being shot by a .44 is marginal. If your aggressor doesn't stop after you double tap them center of mass with either, caliber is irrelevant for the next target: the skull.

Right.

The .357 definitely has more stopping power than the .44Spc, but the .44 doesn't have the ear-splitting roar and blinding flash of the .357. Even so, you can easily get .38Spc +Ps that are manageable and that at least equal the stopping power of a .44Spc. I'd pick the .357 not only because it has one extra round, but because if I were on a cross-country trip and needed a gun to keep in my glove box, I'd want the extra horsepower and penetration.