7lbs Or Less: Practical Rifle
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Skylerbone
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I’m sure I could appreciate a lighter weight rifle with some of my hunts, my deer rifle is nearly 10 lbs and I walk it in. 3 miles each way, twice a day for as long as it takes. About 800’ of elevation each trip up, and obviously the same coming down. That rifle is a feather compared to most deer I’ve taken.
Now a light handy rifle is all well and good for fighting where the objective need not be more than causing harm or scaring off. For that I think .308 is a good bit of overkill. Remember a rifle serves no purpose without ammo and that is where the real weight penalty lies if you find yourself an army of 1.
With ARs I’d have to agree they’re easy to keep under 7 lbs but only when making smart choices. Your typical PSA bought upper can add a fair amount between barrel profile and clunky handguard (yes I have a few). I also have a basic 16” irons only that tips over 8 lbs.
A couple home brews:
Technically a pistol, 10.5” with brace and back up sights. Right at 7 with red dot or LPVO.
16” with 1.5-4x scope.
16” bare rifle.
Now a light handy rifle is all well and good for fighting where the objective need not be more than causing harm or scaring off. For that I think .308 is a good bit of overkill. Remember a rifle serves no purpose without ammo and that is where the real weight penalty lies if you find yourself an army of 1.
With ARs I’d have to agree they’re easy to keep under 7 lbs but only when making smart choices. Your typical PSA bought upper can add a fair amount between barrel profile and clunky handguard (yes I have a few). I also have a basic 16” irons only that tips over 8 lbs.
A couple home brews:
Technically a pistol, 10.5” with brace and back up sights. Right at 7 with red dot or LPVO.
16” with 1.5-4x scope.
16” bare rifle.
Regardless of weight, levers carry better because of the narrow receiver. Even the relatively heavy Rem 760/7600 carry better than a bolt for the same reason. And a protruding DBM at the balance point of the rifle certainly doesn't improve the "carry-ability" for me. Still haven't figured out to to carry an AR except at the low ready. But since I don't own one, I haven't spent much time trying either.
I'd also think that when Cooper discussed the GP rifle and 308 being the optimum cartridge, he didn't believe that the .223 had sufficient snot. I guess I'd agree. Maybe a Grendel as a baseline "sufficient" cartridge today? Dunno. But I do know that the theory of the GP rifle was something to be carried a lot and shot a little. Its not intended to be a battle rifle, so discussions of the weight of ammo aren't really a concern.
I'd also think that when Cooper discussed the GP rifle and 308 being the optimum cartridge, he didn't believe that the .223 had sufficient snot. I guess I'd agree. Maybe a Grendel as a baseline "sufficient" cartridge today? Dunno. But I do know that the theory of the GP rifle was something to be carried a lot and shot a little. Its not intended to be a battle rifle, so discussions of the weight of ammo aren't really a concern.
dranrab
Member
Savage Lightweight Hunter 223. Talley's. Leupold VX-2 3-9x40. More accurate than my Remington 5R 223 that weighs in at 10 pounds 5 ounces.
Skylerbone
Member
And 50+ years of service, killing everywhere from jungle to sand to high school and creatures great and small won’t convince you. Well that’s why ARs come in multiple calibers.
Well there’s a piece of sensible advice: carry a jack of few trades with limited ammo and hope you don’t need it. If that’s Cooper’s philosophy he can keep it. A rifle without ammo is like a car without gas so discussions of the weight of ammo really are a concern in the real world.
I suppose discussions like this are the very reason I don’t read much on the opinions of some long ago expert. Just as Henry Ford would no doubt be wowed by the evolution of the automobiles his company now produces, I suspect Cooper might profess a different opinion on the perfect rifle if he were up to speed on today’s offerings. Who can say if the AR would be his modern preference but unless he were obtuse, his choice would not be .308 As for the Scout Rifle Concept I find its use as limited as the number of offerings currently produced.
d2wing
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I had a Remington 700 mountain rifle in 30-06. It was painful to shoot. I don't remember the weight but it was very light.
My current Tikka T3 in 7-08 is about perfect. I never warmed up to the scout rifle. Forward scope mount didn't work for me. For serious fighting an AR for me. Hunting, My Tikka.
My current Tikka T3 in 7-08 is about perfect. I never warmed up to the scout rifle. Forward scope mount didn't work for me. For serious fighting an AR for me. Hunting, My Tikka.
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I guess when I read the OPs post I read it as a general purpose HUNTING rifle which I understand that I inserted the hunting into the question and not the OP. I did not have in mind going to war against zombies in my selection of a Kimber 6.5CM. I like bolt guns, I have gone on lengthy hunting trips and not used an entire box of ammo. But, sure, if going to war is part and one of the general purposes then there are better rifles maybe to choose. And I realize it is an opinion and is not intended to offend anyone, I would not choose or want an AR as a general purpose hunting platform, especially one in .223/5.56 round. I will take a pocket full of .308 Winchester and leave my 90 round drum magazine at home. I guess if I had been in the military and trained and served with such rifles I would be more fond of them, as it is, the only reason I own one is because some famous politician said that I should not. So I do.
Skylerbone
Member
@3Crows i wouldn’t fault you for your choice, my response is rather along the lines of Scout Rifle; who cares?
I don’t see a major distinction between this and threads that ponder what 1 rifle would you choose for everything? Some, including imo bolt action rifles and ARs do a reasonable job of meeting many needs whereas a forward mounted scope in and of itself makes even a 7 lb rifle feel heavier.
Maybe we should all vote Garand and walk away happy. If they could build one 3 pounds lighter...
I don’t see a major distinction between this and threads that ponder what 1 rifle would you choose for everything? Some, including imo bolt action rifles and ARs do a reasonable job of meeting many needs whereas a forward mounted scope in and of itself makes even a 7 lb rifle feel heavier.
Maybe we should all vote Garand and walk away happy. If they could build one 3 pounds lighter...
chicharrones
needs more ammo
I don't think the "scout" rifle was ever meant to be a high volume ammo consuming device. Especially since the early ones typically had 5 round internal magazines. They were more tied to early 20th century military bolt action rifles that had been sporterized to the specs laid out by Cooper and his group of like minded thinkers.
It's only in the 21st century that larger detachable magazines have become a trend on bolt action rifles. Which seems to have been driven by the flourishing of standard capacity autoloading rifles after the sunset of the AWB many years ago.
A quote reportedly regarding the development of the "scout" rifle -
"A general purpose rifle is a conveniently portable, individually operated firearm, capable of striking a single decisive blow, on a live target of up to 200 kilos in weight, at any distance at which the operator can shoot with the precision necessary to place a shot in a vital area of the target." - Col. Jeff Cooper " To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth"
Sounds more like a hunting guide's rifle than anything else.
It's only in the 21st century that larger detachable magazines have become a trend on bolt action rifles. Which seems to have been driven by the flourishing of standard capacity autoloading rifles after the sunset of the AWB many years ago.
A quote reportedly regarding the development of the "scout" rifle -
"A general purpose rifle is a conveniently portable, individually operated firearm, capable of striking a single decisive blow, on a live target of up to 200 kilos in weight, at any distance at which the operator can shoot with the precision necessary to place a shot in a vital area of the target." - Col. Jeff Cooper " To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth"
Sounds more like a hunting guide's rifle than anything else.
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