fugi
Member
That drivel won an award? I know it's just eighth grade but that's no excuse for poor writing. The content wasn't much better.
8th graders win essay. Indoctrination is alive & well.
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mike101
Member
C Yeager- I know what you mean, but they won't always be 8th graders. Before you know it, these little lambs will become sheep, old enough to re-elect Ted Kennedy, again.
I would like to know where they got their statistics. I don't know, but 34,000+ gun related deaths sounds rather high to me. It sounds like they got their numbers from the Brady Bunch, or Rosie. I'd like to tell them about Dianne Feinstein's CCW permit, and the fact that Rosie hires armed body guards to protect her. When they find out what elitist hypocrites some of their heroes are, maybe they will change their minds. How much would they like to bet that Ted Kennedy has a gun? We all know how the antis like to play fast and loose with stats. When we tell people that guns are used in over 2 million defensive situations every year, at least we have the Justice Dept. to back us up.
Someone needs to tell them to delve further and discover that we still have an "unorganized militia", and that the main purpose of 2A was, and is, to protect the states from a tyrannical federal govt. They need to be told that the National Guard is TOTALLY under federal control, and have the danger of that explained to them. They also need to be told that people have an inherrant right to protect themselves, and that it shouldn't need to be spelled out for them. They need to be told that the police are under no legal obligation to protect anyone, including them. Then, smack 'em in the head for not having any common sense.
It might also help if they actually taught HISTORY these days. They don't. The lack of knowledge that these kids have today is apalling. Hell, half of them don't know who won WWII. I'm not kidding.
I would like to know where they got their statistics. I don't know, but 34,000+ gun related deaths sounds rather high to me. It sounds like they got their numbers from the Brady Bunch, or Rosie. I'd like to tell them about Dianne Feinstein's CCW permit, and the fact that Rosie hires armed body guards to protect her. When they find out what elitist hypocrites some of their heroes are, maybe they will change their minds. How much would they like to bet that Ted Kennedy has a gun? We all know how the antis like to play fast and loose with stats. When we tell people that guns are used in over 2 million defensive situations every year, at least we have the Justice Dept. to back us up.
Someone needs to tell them to delve further and discover that we still have an "unorganized militia", and that the main purpose of 2A was, and is, to protect the states from a tyrannical federal govt. They need to be told that the National Guard is TOTALLY under federal control, and have the danger of that explained to them. They also need to be told that people have an inherrant right to protect themselves, and that it shouldn't need to be spelled out for them. They need to be told that the police are under no legal obligation to protect anyone, including them. Then, smack 'em in the head for not having any common sense.
It might also help if they actually taught HISTORY these days. They don't. The lack of knowledge that these kids have today is apalling. Hell, half of them don't know who won WWII. I'm not kidding.
JJpdxpinkpistols
Member
c_yeager wrote:
Hmmm...I am a homeschooler, and one of the things we do is find those "teachable moments." When a kid asks a question about snow melting on the sidewalk, but not the trees above, do we tell that kid they are dumb? Do we call them ill-informed? No, we take the time to teach them. We explain that the sun warms the sidewalk and the wind cools the trees, and thus the snow won't stick today.
This is, indeed, one of those moments.
What we need to do is send a very politely worded letter to the kids, care of their school, congratulating them on their win, respectfully disagreeing with their conclusions, and suggesting they check out:
1. the relevant sections of US code that deal with the US militias (including the date that they were last updated--clinton in 1996, iirc.
2. the relevant court cases that established that the police have zero obligation to provide protection for individual citizens.
3. The "armed citizen model" -- perhaps use Switzerland as an example of same.
I'm game to write the letter. Anyone wanna pony up their favorite citations and/or quotes from the Big Names in founding fathers?
Hmmm...I am a homeschooler, and one of the things we do is find those "teachable moments." When a kid asks a question about snow melting on the sidewalk, but not the trees above, do we tell that kid they are dumb? Do we call them ill-informed? No, we take the time to teach them. We explain that the sun warms the sidewalk and the wind cools the trees, and thus the snow won't stick today.
This is, indeed, one of those moments.
What we need to do is send a very politely worded letter to the kids, care of their school, congratulating them on their win, respectfully disagreeing with their conclusions, and suggesting they check out:
1. the relevant sections of US code that deal with the US militias (including the date that they were last updated--clinton in 1996, iirc.
2. the relevant court cases that established that the police have zero obligation to provide protection for individual citizens.
3. The "armed citizen model" -- perhaps use Switzerland as an example of same.
I'm game to write the letter. Anyone wanna pony up their favorite citations and/or quotes from the Big Names in founding fathers?
ProguninTN
Member
Essay
I just read this on another forum. It's definitely characteristic of the sheep/rely on the government mindset of MA.
I just read this on another forum. It's definitely characteristic of the sheep/rely on the government mindset of MA.
cbsbyte
Member
Don't take a blind eye to your state education system.
This is not just a problem in Mass, this can happen in any state in this union. Millions of American youth are being taught daily, that firearms are not protected under 2nd Ad and to top it off, the founding fathers where racists, extremist white men. Revisonist history trumps correct unbiased learning. If one passes this off as if it can only happen in a liberal state, you are turning a blind eye to a battle the pro RKBA forces have been losing for sometime. Indoctrination is alive and well in every public school/university in the nation!!! Wake up gunnies our freedoms are be subverted in our educational system.
This is not just a problem in Mass, this can happen in any state in this union. Millions of American youth are being taught daily, that firearms are not protected under 2nd Ad and to top it off, the founding fathers where racists, extremist white men. Revisonist history trumps correct unbiased learning. If one passes this off as if it can only happen in a liberal state, you are turning a blind eye to a battle the pro RKBA forces have been losing for sometime. Indoctrination is alive and well in every public school/university in the nation!!! Wake up gunnies our freedoms are be subverted in our educational system.
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Ben Shepherd
Member
1. My nieces and nephews DO NOT and WILL NOT EVER go to public schools because of things just like this. Nor will my children, God willing. It's not just the 2nd either, it's the whole "the gubmint will take care of everyting" for you mentality in public schools.
2. I am now going to go home and watch "The Shootist". Wise words from the duke to ease my headache.
3. I am going to re-read "A Nation of Cowards" by Jeff Snyder. Now THOSE are some good essays.
Back to your regularly scheduled thread..........
2. I am now going to go home and watch "The Shootist". Wise words from the duke to ease my headache.
3. I am going to re-read "A Nation of Cowards" by Jeff Snyder. Now THOSE are some good essays.
Back to your regularly scheduled thread..........
I wonder how much tar and feathers it would take to sufficiently cover an 8th grade traitor.
If this were my child, I would be pulling him from that school and grounding him for life. Actually, if this were my child, I would be sending him to military school.
If this were my child, I would be pulling him from that school and grounding him for life. Actually, if this were my child, I would be sending him to military school.
SoCalShooter
Member
More complex guns? What I dont think it gets more complex than a gas operated semi-auto rifle? thats a pretty complicated system compared to a flintlock rifle sonny.
Another child that should be seen not heard from. Kinda hard for the NG to be here for local protection when a very large portion of them are in a foreign country.
Sindawe
Member
The child is not the one who needs tarring and feathering. Rather, look to to the child's teachers, the school administration and the school board.
This crud is happening all across the country, and has been for years. I've still got the little pocket book about the constitution my Grandmother gave me when I was 8, 30+ years ago. It gives the text of of the document and all then current amendments, along with an explanation of its meaning. On the 2nd Amendment, its states "This is the National Guard." when speaking of the militia.
JJpdxpinkpistols
Member
Tar and Feather an 8th grader?!?!?!?
Call them a TRAITOR?!?!?!?!?
You can't tar and feather an 8th grader based upon an essay. Cut them some slack, recognize that they are probably NOT getting a balanced education, and then set out to change it.
write the kids a very respectful letter. Get their attention. Show them the way, and then hope for the best.
me thinks the cold weather is gettin' to you all.
go bundle up, take a hot cuppa something and go blow some holes in targets...you'll feel better.
This is one of the reasons why we homeschool, frankly. I would rather raise a good citizen than someone who can win awards but hasn't made the effort to do the research.
Call them a TRAITOR?!?!?!?!?
You can't tar and feather an 8th grader based upon an essay. Cut them some slack, recognize that they are probably NOT getting a balanced education, and then set out to change it.
write the kids a very respectful letter. Get their attention. Show them the way, and then hope for the best.
me thinks the cold weather is gettin' to you all.
go bundle up, take a hot cuppa something and go blow some holes in targets...you'll feel better.
This is one of the reasons why we homeschool, frankly. I would rather raise a good citizen than someone who can win awards but hasn't made the effort to do the research.
22-rimfire
Member
The kid must be a fairly good writer. When I was in the 8th grade and trying to decide what to write about, I usually chose a topic that I was interested in and one that I could find lots of information on. So, the kid likely believes in the information that is being presented.
I liked this observation presented early on!
I liked this observation presented early on!
Here is a math problem for you folks...
A typical school year is 180 school days long. A typical school day is 6.5 hours (including lunch, recess, transitions between classes, and staring off into space/talking with your friends in class, etc time). If you multiply that out you get… 1170 hours a year that the minions of state education have an opportunity to bend the minds of children.
If you then take 365 days and multiply it by 16 hours a day (subtract the 8 for sleeping time) you get… 5840 waking hours a year.
Do a bit of division at this point 1170/5840 and you find it equals .20034 (or approximately 20% of the waking hours for a child).
I did not realize that teachers were so efficient that they can completely override the efforts of the parents who have 4 times as many waking hours with their children as the teachers do.
I’m thinking I need to go ask for a raise.
One other thing to consider. Lawyers…not teachers, sponsored this contest. Since they sponsored it, I am thinking they also decided who the winners were. Yet it is the teachers that get the blame. Not the parents that have control over the overwhelming majority of the child’s time/education, nor the lawyers who thought up the idea and decided this was the “best”.
Tarring and feathering a 13 y.o. for expressing his opinion?
migoi
A typical school year is 180 school days long. A typical school day is 6.5 hours (including lunch, recess, transitions between classes, and staring off into space/talking with your friends in class, etc time). If you multiply that out you get… 1170 hours a year that the minions of state education have an opportunity to bend the minds of children.
If you then take 365 days and multiply it by 16 hours a day (subtract the 8 for sleeping time) you get… 5840 waking hours a year.
Do a bit of division at this point 1170/5840 and you find it equals .20034 (or approximately 20% of the waking hours for a child).
I did not realize that teachers were so efficient that they can completely override the efforts of the parents who have 4 times as many waking hours with their children as the teachers do.
I’m thinking I need to go ask for a raise.
One other thing to consider. Lawyers…not teachers, sponsored this contest. Since they sponsored it, I am thinking they also decided who the winners were. Yet it is the teachers that get the blame. Not the parents that have control over the overwhelming majority of the child’s time/education, nor the lawyers who thought up the idea and decided this was the “best”.
Tarring and feathering a 13 y.o. for expressing his opinion?
migoi
Outlander1
member
Thats funny , anybody but me or the wife touches my kid he would stab'm in the neck . With my blessing .
PennsyPlinker
Member
Yeah, it would have to be dumbed down for the brain dead products of the public school system. I don't blame the kid as much as I blame the system. The children are being indoctrinated just like they were in Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union. They can't think any other way because they have never been presented with any alternatives.
Asbestos suit and tin foil hat on, waiting for flames from recent public school graduates.
Try to spell your rebuttals correctly. Hey, I went to a public school too, but it was long ago and long enough ago that I was still able to learn something before I graduated.The Deer Hunter
Member
You said it yourself. This is Mass.
A Lowell, Mass school just banned all brown clothing on threat of being sent home, because it was rumored that a local gang might favor brown clothes.
http://www.lowellsun.com/front/ci_4978082
so we know the bloods wear red and the cripps wear blue, the terrorists wear black.... O, and the KKK wears white so thats out too.
what do we have left?
green
yellow
pink
purple
grey
man, bluejeans are gunna be out of business soon.
A Lowell, Mass school just banned all brown clothing on threat of being sent home, because it was rumored that a local gang might favor brown clothes.
http://www.lowellsun.com/front/ci_4978082
so we know the bloods wear red and the cripps wear blue, the terrorists wear black.... O, and the KKK wears white so thats out too.
what do we have left?
green
yellow
pink
purple
grey
man, bluejeans are gunna be out of business soon.
jhallrv4
Member
'If one passes this off as if it can only happen in a liberal state, you are turning a blind eye to a battle the pro RKBA forces have been losing for sometime."
Good point!
I hate to rain on your red state/blue state parade...but Colorado was fun for a while, now it has a lib governor, lib senate and lib house. I am sooo depressed. I was really liking it here, too. I can still remember when it meant something to be a westerner. Now, "it don't mean squat"!
Jeff
A pi$$ed off, gun carrying blue stater.:banghead:
Good point!
I hate to rain on your red state/blue state parade...but Colorado was fun for a while, now it has a lib governor, lib senate and lib house. I am sooo depressed. I was really liking it here, too. I can still remember when it meant something to be a westerner. Now, "it don't mean squat"!
Jeff
A pi$$ed off, gun carrying blue stater.:banghead:
Baba Louie
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2002
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- 3,831
Perhaps it WAS the best written of all the essays submitted. That'd be a sad thing in a manner of speaking. (What? No footnotes or bibliography?
)
Perhaps it was the best written essay submitted that toed the favored line of current MA thought. Probably a more realistic scenario.
But the reality is, we just don't know. We do know they didn't toe OUR line or that of our Constitutional founders, which is upsetting from several points of view. Nothing we can do about that in this instance. As I said above, all we can do (to quote a C,S,N & Y lyric) is "Teach Your Children Well". And maybe one or two of their friends.
6 - 8 graders usually love to learn about .22's and shooting clay pigeons and such. Much knowledge can be passed on whilst engaged in pleasurable pursuits. And wouldn't you just love to see what type of essay those kids would turn in? (Not to mention the looks on their teachers faces)
Our duty is clear.
)Perhaps it was the best written essay submitted that toed the favored line of current MA thought. Probably a more realistic scenario.
But the reality is, we just don't know. We do know they didn't toe OUR line or that of our Constitutional founders, which is upsetting from several points of view. Nothing we can do about that in this instance. As I said above, all we can do (to quote a C,S,N & Y lyric) is "Teach Your Children Well". And maybe one or two of their friends.
6 - 8 graders usually love to learn about .22's and shooting clay pigeons and such. Much knowledge can be passed on whilst engaged in pleasurable pursuits. And wouldn't you just love to see what type of essay those kids would turn in? (Not to mention the looks on their teachers faces)
Our duty is clear.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
migoi
Your math is flawed.
You have assumed (!) that the hours not spent with the child by teachers must have been with the parents.
Our kids have graduated from high school, but it's only been a year for one and two for the other. The memory is quite fresh.
Wife and I work full time, with more than a little unpaid overtime. We're not even remotely unique in this.
Kids are out of school by 2:00pm, and we're still working until at least 5:00pm (often 6:00) and then there's the commute. I seldom make it home before 6:00pm.
By this time, the kids have already "finished" any homework, and are out with their friends. We often don't see them for dinner. When they DO come home, it's usually into the bedroom, watch TV, call friends, play online games, and the like.
The actual interaction time with each kid amounts to MAYBE an hour a day.
Their primary inputs? Teachers, peers, and television.
We got to spend more time with them during the 5 years we home-schooled, but once we both had to shovel coal full time, they were back in the system.
Parents, who see their kids for perhaps 3 hours a day, during which they have perhaps an hour of meaningful contact, cannot compete with the saturation bombing from other sources.
Yeah, it's easy to look back and figure out what would have worked better, but the fact is we're just Joe Average, working class dudes, trying to make ends meet by overcoming the taxation threshold, while ironically our tax dollars are used to indoctrinate our kids into modes of thought that -- IF WE WEREN'T WORKING ALL THE FRIGGIN' TIME -- we would be able to nullify directly.
My response to the "spend more time with your kids" crowd is, "quit stealing my money, so I can HAVE some time with them."
Bottom line: your average parent gets less time with his kids than any of the other significant opinion & viewpoint inputs in his life.
Your math is flawed.
You have assumed (!) that the hours not spent with the child by teachers must have been with the parents.
Our kids have graduated from high school, but it's only been a year for one and two for the other. The memory is quite fresh.
Wife and I work full time, with more than a little unpaid overtime. We're not even remotely unique in this.
Kids are out of school by 2:00pm, and we're still working until at least 5:00pm (often 6:00) and then there's the commute. I seldom make it home before 6:00pm.
By this time, the kids have already "finished" any homework, and are out with their friends. We often don't see them for dinner. When they DO come home, it's usually into the bedroom, watch TV, call friends, play online games, and the like.
The actual interaction time with each kid amounts to MAYBE an hour a day.
Their primary inputs? Teachers, peers, and television.
We got to spend more time with them during the 5 years we home-schooled, but once we both had to shovel coal full time, they were back in the system.
Parents, who see their kids for perhaps 3 hours a day, during which they have perhaps an hour of meaningful contact, cannot compete with the saturation bombing from other sources.
Yeah, it's easy to look back and figure out what would have worked better, but the fact is we're just Joe Average, working class dudes, trying to make ends meet by overcoming the taxation threshold, while ironically our tax dollars are used to indoctrinate our kids into modes of thought that -- IF WE WEREN'T WORKING ALL THE FRIGGIN' TIME -- we would be able to nullify directly.
My response to the "spend more time with your kids" crowd is, "quit stealing my money, so I can HAVE some time with them."
Bottom line: your average parent gets less time with his kids than any of the other significant opinion & viewpoint inputs in his life.
My math is fine...
Okay, going with your 3 hours a day, gives you about 19% of the time. So that leaves a bit over 60% of the time not in school, not being directly influenced by parents. Yet everyone still jumps on the "blame everything bad on the public school system" bandwagon.
Also if you want to take issue with the amount of time I've designated for parents having control you also need to think about the 6.5 hours. That included lunch, recess, transitions between classes, library time, sustained silent reading time with books of their (or their parents) choosing. In the school I work at we actually have them on class about 4.82 hours a day. Subtract a bit of settling time for each class and you end up with even less.
I'm still thinking if we're that efficient we need a raise.
Again, my point is that the amount of time teachers have influence over students is only a fraction of their waking hours. Why aren't folks putting more blame on those other influences you described, mass media and friends? Why is it always "because public school teachers are evil incarnate"?
migoi
Okay, going with your 3 hours a day, gives you about 19% of the time. So that leaves a bit over 60% of the time not in school, not being directly influenced by parents. Yet everyone still jumps on the "blame everything bad on the public school system" bandwagon.
Also if you want to take issue with the amount of time I've designated for parents having control you also need to think about the 6.5 hours. That included lunch, recess, transitions between classes, library time, sustained silent reading time with books of their (or their parents) choosing. In the school I work at we actually have them on class about 4.82 hours a day. Subtract a bit of settling time for each class and you end up with even less.
I'm still thinking if we're that efficient we need a raise.
Again, my point is that the amount of time teachers have influence over students is only a fraction of their waking hours. Why aren't folks putting more blame on those other influences you described, mass media and friends? Why is it always "because public school teachers are evil incarnate"?
migoi
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Evil Teachers?
migoi
Rather than get into a long winded rehash of where I stand on education, I invite you to scan some of my recent posts on education, mental health, the NEA, and that sort of thing.
I may not have mentioned it before, but I taught for five years (computer languages) at college level and worked for ten years in rehab as well as advanced and remedial education.
I don't bash teachers. I know the system. I know the players. I also know where it's broken.
If you can't find my posts, let me know. I'll be happy to help.
migoi
Rather than get into a long winded rehash of where I stand on education, I invite you to scan some of my recent posts on education, mental health, the NEA, and that sort of thing.
I may not have mentioned it before, but I taught for five years (computer languages) at college level and worked for ten years in rehab as well as advanced and remedial education.
I don't bash teachers. I know the system. I know the players. I also know where it's broken.
If you can't find my posts, let me know. I'll be happy to help.
tank mechanic
Member
I was lucky in eigth grade. The subject of handguns came up a few times in the school year. My teacher stood at the front of the classroom and told us that he always has his fire arm ready in his home and when ever he traveled. He explained to us in a very no BS kind of way that he is the main person responsible for his families safety and that the gun is for personal protection. Those talks about handguns were some of the best times in his classroom. He talked to us like adults about an adult subject and no one complained to their parents and it was never an issue. Nowadays he would be carted off by the campus police officer for being a crazy eyed extremist.:banghead:
Kid would probably get sent to the office and end up sitting in front of said hippy counselor discussing why he wants to "kill people." Simply for writing his support for our rights. If he left out the 2nd Amendment, he'd be fine.
Why do so many use the first to erode the second. Isn't the second amendment what truly insures them all for us common folk? It is to me.
I'm so glad everyone in my family and my wife's likes guns and shooting.
50caliber123
Member
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2005
- Messages
- 640
Even if the 2nd Amendment was repealed, I would love to explain to this eighth grader as I do to so many others, Many states still have a provision in their constitiutions for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Michigan, where I live, is an example. So, it would take a miracle of epic proportions to ban all guns everywhere nationwide by simply removing amendments.
I don't think too many people are in a huff, but it should be a barometer of how future voters view firearms, they're voting in 5 years.
Also interesting to note that not only do they not see a reason for the people to be armed with a standing army (which should be reason enough), but that they also view the bill of rights as rights granted that can be repealed and not as an acknowledgement of rights already possessed.
Glockfan.45
member
This is one of the many reasons my children do not go to public schools .
.- Status