9mm carbines - a few questions

[Wanderling]

I was toying with an idea of getting a .22 revolver to teach my son with, but they are a bit more $ than I am willing to spend right now. Then I looked at .22 rifles, these can be had for cheap and are fun to shoot; I almost got one when all of a sudden I got bitten by the 9mm carbine bug.

Now, I never shot a 9 mm carbine, but I did shoot a lot of .22 rifles. They feel a bit toy-ish to me, almost like a glorified airsoft. I know that caliber is actually deadly, I am just talking about the feel.

The way I see it, a 9mm carbine would be more useful for HD - I kind of can't see a .22 rifle as a good HD weapon, may be I am mistaken. Also, a whole lot more fun, I actually happen to like the round a lot. More expensive to shoot, but I am not shooting all that much. And it's probably easy enough for a 10 yo kid to control. I assume there's not much recoil.

I was leaning towards Hi-Point carbines. It seems I can get a brand new one for $250 / 275 shipped (the stock TS). This is quite a bit cheaper than the Kel-Tec sub2000. I read good reviews on Hi-Points.

So, a few questions:

1) Since this is a carbine in pistol cartridge, do I have to get a purchase permit / FFL transfer like I did when I got my handgun ? (I live in MI).

2) Is the price above a good price to pay for a stock basic HP. This was the lowest price I found (but I didn't look hard).

3) Any reason to get a .22 over it (other than the cost of ammo) ? I don't hunt, and if I ever decide to pick up the sport, I'd get a "real" hunting gear then. I live in a suburb, so no critter hunting either.

4) Any reason NOT to get one. So far everything I read seem to indicate that these Hi-Points are reliable & fun to shoot.

I am hesitant to buy it used. I read a few complaints of people getting jams / FTFs and I don't want to save $70 just to get someone's headache; they aren't awfully expensive new.

 

[OARNGESI]

You may want to find a carbine to try out before you make the decision my hipoint 995 kicks more than my colt 6920 i was really supprised. It is not horrible but may be a issue depending on the age and size of your son.

 

[gunnutery]

I've never heard any complaints about Hi-Points and I'm sure it'd serve you well. I'm a shallower guy and like my guns to be visibly appealing as well as reliable, so I personally won't get a Hi-Point, but I'm in no way saying you shouldn't.

Not sure about MI law. If it's coming from another state you'll have to do a transfer through an FFL. Perhaps not if you're doing a FTF transaction since it's a rifle (but check legalities on that one too).

As far as going 9mm over .22 I'd fully agree. I much prefer 9mm.

 

[Warp]

They usually recoil more than you might think.

 

[David E]

I'd spring for the extra bucks and get the Keltec.

It's cooler, folding in 1/2 and all and you can get hicap mags for it. Get the Glock version, you can get 33 rd mags.

It has far more purpose, utility and aesthetics over any hipoint.

 

[General Geoff]

No you won't need to register it, err, do the safety inspection in Michigan. I guarantee they don't define or care about what is or is not a "handgun caliber"

The gun is either a handgun or it's not. A rifle is not

To the contrary. Michigan law defines any rifle which has an overall length of under 30 inches (and at least 26 inches; state law completely bans SBRs) in fireable configuration to be a pistol. The standard Kel-Tec Sub2000 comes in at just under 30 inches, and is thus required to be registered as a pistol. But on the plus side, this means you can stow it loaded in your vehicle. You can't normally have loaded "rifles" in your vehicle.

You can also purchase a Sub2000 with a slight stock extension, which brings it to just above 30" OAL, and makes it legally into a rifle, as far as the state is concerned.

 

[Warp]

To the contrary. Michigan law defines any rifle which has an overall length of under 30 inches (and at least 26 inches; state law completely bans SBRs) in fireable configuration to be a pistol. The standard Kel-Tec Sub2000 comes in at just under 30 inches, and is thus required to be registered as a pistol. But on the plus side, this means you can stow it loaded in your vehicle. You can't normally have loaded "rifles" in your vehicle.

You can also purchase a Sub2000 with a slight stock extension, which brings it to just above 30" OAL, and makes it legally into a rifle, as far as the state is concerned.

Wow.

Your laws really do suck. I'll go edit my post while I feel even more sorry for you guys than I used to

 

[General Geoff]

Nevermind, apparently Public Act 243 of 2012 changed the length from 30" to 26". There is a provision that allows owners of rifles between 26" and 30" OAL to register them as pistols in order to legally carry them as pistols, if they do so before January 1st, 2013.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

You may want to find a carbine to try out before you make the decision my hipoint 995 kicks more than my colt 6920 i was really supprised. It is not horrible but may be a issue depending on the age and size of your son.

This is my 6 year old grand daughter shooting my 995 carbine(with just a LITTLE help from me). She loves to go rapid fire. Recoil is NOT a problem for her. She also loves to shoot a full sized AK.

 

[aka108]

I've talked with a few Point owners and they seem pleased with the rifle even though it looks a bit dorky. Pretty accurate and very reliable. I'm not sure I would purchase one for myself. I shoot a lot of centerfire calibers but always enjoy winding up a day at the range with about 100 rds of 22 rf. I enjoy the Anschutz's, the CZ's and other quality 22 rf rifles.

 

[Batty67]

I had, and sold, a Ruger PC40 carbine. Needed the money and decided to get out of 40S&W. Very accurate, HEAVY, poor trigger. But I got a Bill Springfield trigger job which improved it from poor to okay. They also make a 9mm. But the weight is really, really tough to get used to.

I just got a Marlin Camp 45. In, as you'd guess, 45 ACP. Uses 1911 magazines. Just got the trigger assembly to Bill Springfiield. NEAT weapon, very light compared to PC9 and PC40, and great ergonomics.

I hear the highpoints are very reliable and accurate, but I cannot get past how they look. Same goes for the Beretta Storm. Good luck.

 

[Cornhusker77]

Hi Point carbines are a lot of fun and pretty darn accurate.
Mine has been my chicken house and skunk gun for over 4 years now, and it's done a great job.
They are fun, and cheap enough that you don't have to feel bad if it gets dinged up a bit

 

[berettaprofessor]

That boy is going to want to shoot...a lot. Forget the price of the gun and think about the price of the ammo.....and buy the 22...buy a better 22...you'll save money in the long run.

 

[Wanderling]

Actually, I think 995TS looks kind of cool. The old 995 is... well, it looks like Alan Greenspan of guns .

Is $250 before delivery a good price for all stock 995TS ?

 

[tyeo098]

Only downside (any why I'm selling mine) is that you're pretty much limited to 10 or 15rd mags.

 

[David E]

Only downside (any why I'm selling mine) is that you're pretty much limited to 10 or 15rd mags.

Length, weight, lack of accessories and non-existent "cool factor" would also be downsides.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Length, weight, lack of accessories and non-existent "cool factor" would also be downsides.

Huh? I don't see any of these things in mine. All accessories that will fit a picatinny rail will work on the 995. With the exception of magazine choices,I think the 995 is an awesome little carbine and a perfect HD weapon.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Here is mine.

 

[tyeo098]

Length, weight, lack of accessories and non-existent "cool factor" would also be downsides.

What?

Its super light, not very long, and it is very mobile. I could easily do a run'n'gun course with it if I didn't have to swap mags every 10 seconds.

 

[dprice3844444]

http://mechtechsys.com/ carbine kits 9mm,40,45 uses glock lowers and magazines.

 

[Furncliff]

I have the Hi Point carbine in .45acp. It's ugly but dead nutz reliable and fun to shoot. I've tried several red dots and scopes on mine, but I've gone back to the factory sights. Close-in, it is accurate enough. $250 is a good price, that's what I paid for mine 2 years ago. Hi Point has a no BS guarantee and all contact I've had with them has been great. Their magazines are inexpensive, buy several. They don't charge for shipping either. I don't keep a HD gun loaded in the house, but if I did this carbine would be a good choice for the job.

Edit to add: I have several other pistol caliber carbines including the Marlin Camp 9 and the Marlin 1894c .38/357. For someone on a budget the Hi Point is a good choice.

 

[Wanderling]

Thanks, that's interesting but I'd rather have something that's a full gun on it's own. I don't do spray-shooting so 10 round mag limit, while not exactly something I like, is not a show stopper.

I wish there was a Hi-Point I could rent locally. Called a local LGS with range but they don't have one. I can't imagine recoil being that bad, though.

 

[Warp]

Thanks, that's interesting but I'd rather have something that's a full gun on it's own. I don't do spray-shooting so 10 round mag limit, while not exactly something I like, is not a show stopper.

I wish there was a Hi-Point I could rent locally. Called a local LGS with range but they don't have one. I can't imagine recoil being that bad, though.

You don't need to "do spray-shooting" to benefit from magazines over 10 rounds

 

[Godsgunman]

I have the HiPoint 995TS and with the spring loaded buttpad on it there is little to no felt recoil. IMO its the same recoil as a .22. Also as has already been said, a much better option for HD. Mine's been flawless and pretty dang accurate.

 

[David E]

What?

Its super light, not very long, and it is very mobile. I could easily do a run'n'gun course with it if I didn't have to swap mags every 10 seconds.

Is it as light and handy as the Keltec Subrifle?

You know, the one that'll let you run n' gun the course TWICE on the same magazine!