9mm carbines - a few questions
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meanmrmustard
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Why wouldn't he? Cops doing their job expect everything.
There's plenty to give a cop cause to believe any case or bag houses a weapon.
How is a sheathed knife inside a console more accessible than a cased rifle?
I don't buy based on "cool factor", I buy my weapons for practical use.
Sooo...if I don't have to fold it, why do I need a folding rifle?
I live in MO: they hand out CC permits here like participation trophies.
CDNN has none in stock, for $300 or otherwise. $400 plus shipping and transfer...welcome to at or near $500. Hope "anytime" comes soon for those who feel they must have this rifle.
There's plenty to give a cop cause to believe any case or bag houses a weapon.
How is a sheathed knife inside a console more accessible than a cased rifle?
I don't buy based on "cool factor", I buy my weapons for practical use.
Sooo...if I don't have to fold it, why do I need a folding rifle?
I live in MO: they hand out CC permits here like participation trophies.
CDNN has none in stock, for $300 or otherwise. $400 plus shipping and transfer...welcome to at or near $500. Hope "anytime" comes soon for those who feel they must have this rifle.
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barnbwt
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That's actually a valid point--
Everyone knows folding rifles in discreet cases are the tool of the assassin...
It's stupid, but that's what a searching officer's discretion is allowed to be during a traffic stop. Justifiably so, if such suspicion leads to a more sinister find. A folded rifle in a briefcase is about as shady as a silenced revolver or ether-soaked rag to a guy whose seen too many crime dramas
Let's just say some people must bear an infringement on their fourth amendment rights more often than others...:shame:
TCB
David E
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Oh, i don't know....maybe that whole "probable cause 4th Amendment" thing. Lacking said cause or arrest incident to the stop prompting an inventory search, he must ask permission, which I'll kindly deny.
What, pray tell, are you doing to create such cause?
Look, if you don't want to buy a folding Sub-Rifle, don't buy one. But don't say the folding feature is without merit.
nazshooter
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Personally I'm more concerned about some criminal wanting to know what's in my rifle case. I routinely go to the range with several handguns in a gym bag (along with ammo, targets etc) and doubt a cop would have a problem with it. Why would it suddenly be a problem to include a rifle?
No but the light weight makes it more maneuverable indoors than most rifles.
For now and in most places I agree but if things go down hill or for someone who lives in certain places such as near the border I could see someone wanting to have a rifle handy. I'll bet a few of the people who had rifles confiscated while trying to evacuate during Katrina wish they'd kept them out of sight.
nazshooter
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I've been pulled over a time or two but never had the cop ask to look in my laptop bag. Heck, I once had my trunk searched and he STILL didn't go into the laptop bag that was on the front passenger seat.
What are you talking about? Hypothetically, if a cop asked you what was in your briefcase and you told him there's a rifle in there that would NOT be probable cause to search (assuming carrying a rifle that way is legal in your state).
meanmrmustard
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If a criminal is breaking into your car, and sees a laptop case, he's going to steal it anyway, whether or not it houses a rifle or an actual computer. Along with the CD player, cash, knick knacks, etc. What the rifle is in isn't going to matter.
In which case an officer asks permission to search said case, which permission is denied, does not prompt him/her to cease the search. Now you've given suspicion upon which to escalate the situation. Telling the officer "I have a rifle folded in my laptop case", good luck with that. They have things called warrants.
I HAVE bought the nifty plastic folding rifle. It is light, maneuverable and a viable home defense carbine. But, like I said, there are still better in its class. I find the folding feature, "cool" or not, to be without merit.
In which case an officer asks permission to search said case, which permission is denied, does not prompt him/her to cease the search. Now you've given suspicion upon which to escalate the situation. Telling the officer "I have a rifle folded in my laptop case", good luck with that. They have things called warrants.
I HAVE bought the nifty plastic folding rifle. It is light, maneuverable and a viable home defense carbine. But, like I said, there are still better in its class. I find the folding feature, "cool" or not, to be without merit.
The ability to fold and become more compact is a feature. Some like it and think it is very handy, and some think it is a wash, but it is still just a feature like any other.
I really like my Sub 2000 in 9MM. It is not in the class as my AR in 9MM, but it is much more portable. You give up a little for that portability. Is it worth it to you or not is the question.
I really like my Sub 2000 in 9MM. It is not in the class as my AR in 9MM, but it is much more portable. You give up a little for that portability. Is it worth it to you or not is the question.
Sav .250
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22 cal ammo is dirt cheap..
Used does carry a "buyer beware" label but there are a lot of really good conditioned ones out there.
If you don`t hunt ..........I`d go with the 22 cal. IMO>
Used does carry a "buyer beware" label but there are a lot of really good conditioned ones out there.
If you don`t hunt ..........I`d go with the 22 cal. IMO>
ole farmerbuck
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I just got a 9mm and a .40 HiPoint. Wonder which I'll like best. hmmm
David E
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if you leave it in plain sight, then he'll steal it. Do you leave your cased long guns in the back seat in plain view also?
Not too many thieves care much about Pyrex casserole dish holders....but regardless. I don't leave guns in cars.
Absent probable cause, etc, he must cease.
But he still must cease. Denying him permission to search does not grant him the probable cause he was lacking before he asked you for permission.
He'd either not going to believe you and think you were being a smart alec, or he'd think "Really? Cool!" (of course then, he'd really want to see it....)
YOU have things called RIGHTS. You may want to review them.
nazshooter
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If all the criminal sees while looking through the windows is an old gym bag he's far less likely to break in then if he sees a rifle case. Besides, in my Explorer there are a number of cubbyholes that would fit a Sub2k but not much else so it wouldn't need to be visible at all. If I'm car camping and plan on a long day hike I may not want to take the rifle on the hike and am faced with the choice between putting the rifle in a lockable box of some sort and hiding it. If a thief sees me leaving he can guess that he'll have all day to break into that box so hiding the rifle may be better.
That's just plain wrong. Look up "Terry Stop". Denial of a search is NOT probable cause for a search. If the cop really thinks you're hiding drugs he may make you wait (or threaten to do so) for a K9 unit to walk around your car and sniff.
Admitting to a legally carried firearm does NOT provide grounds for a warrant. They need to see, hear, or smell something illegal in order to search your vehicle. They may search your person due to officer safety but that does not apply to your car since they would normally remove you from your car first and at that point a weapon hidden in your car is not a threat to the officer.
nazshooter
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DavidE:
Yep, that's probably the most likely reaction around here. Personally, here in AZ I'd be likely to show him but in a state with more convoluted gun laws such as calling a loaded magazine a "firearm" it might be best to refuse.
Yep, that's probably the most likely reaction around here. Personally, here in AZ I'd be likely to show him but in a state with more convoluted gun laws such as calling a loaded magazine a "firearm" it might be best to refuse.
meanmrmustard
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As stated, do what you like. You folks obviously have the law on your side, which is good, and have no worries. Me, I just don't plain hide rifles, and in my small community I worry little about theft. I put my rifles in cases. In my back seat. Have done so for many years. No theft, no worries. No hiding. One thing you guys are also forgetting is that in most states (like mine) carry of a loaded rifle in a vehicle is prohibited in certain areas. What good is that hidden, unloaded rifle doing ya? I must confess, I don't know what any cop is going to do at any given time. Rather than piss him off, I'm liable to let him know I have a rifle in the truck. Not because I'm scared, not because I like my rights infringed, but to seriously avoid any and all headaches that might be attached. I'm doing all involved a favor. His safety, and me not wasting my time.
I'm assuming you folks have rifles other than the Sub2K. I'm also only assuming they don't all fold. What do you hide those in? Do they sit in closets because you can't hide them in fanny packs?
Like I said boys, your state laws may allow it. Your local sneak thieves may be deterred by it, and you may think its cool. But the rifle, in general, is bested by many others. That don't fold. Because they don't need to. I don't need them to, nor ever found myself thinking I needed a folding rifle. Doubly so for one that sucks when unfolded. I'm glad you fellas like them, I don't.
I'm assuming you folks have rifles other than the Sub2K. I'm also only assuming they don't all fold. What do you hide those in? Do they sit in closets because you can't hide them in fanny packs?
Like I said boys, your state laws may allow it. Your local sneak thieves may be deterred by it, and you may think its cool. But the rifle, in general, is bested by many others. That don't fold. Because they don't need to. I don't need them to, nor ever found myself thinking I needed a folding rifle. Doubly so for one that sucks when unfolded. I'm glad you fellas like them, I don't.
David E
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Yet, if you were to have a Subrifle folded and stored in a Pyrex casserole or laptop case, THAT would instantly be stolen, apparently leaving your exposed, cases rifles untouched......
About the same amount of good that your unloaded and cased rifle is doing you. I wonder which one could be deployed faster.....especially while seated........inside a vehicle......
You'd be surprised!
Do they sit in closets because you can't hide them in fanny packs?
Nope.
meanmrmustard
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No, because I don't use casserole dishes or laptop cases. A gun found in an unorthodox place by a scavenging criminal is found just the same. All things that can happen usually do.Yet, if you were to have a Subrifle folded and stored in a Pyrex casserole or laptop case, THAT would instantly be stolen, apparently leaving your exposed, cases rifles untouched......
About the same amount of good that your unloaded and cased rifle is doing you. I wonder which one could be deployed faster.....especially while seated........inside a vehicle......
You'd be surprised!
Nope.
"Oh look, a laptop case containing a laptop! Nope, just a gun in here.
Oh boy! A briefcase that may contain drugs/money/Blackberry! Nope, just another gun.
Yay!!! A casserole dish! I'm hungry after pillaging this camper full of stuff and have grown hungry. Crap, there's only a gun in here too. Why the hell don't these folks use gun cases!"
Neither. That's my point. Two latches or a gym bag zipper; either one takes time.
If I'd be surprised, I'm better off not knowing.
So you DO use fanny packs! I knew it!
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David E
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Your "arguments" are comical. They wouldn't be able to grab, much less look inside the casserole carrier because their arms would be holding all your cased guns cleverly disguised to look exactly like......cased guns.
Correct.
Not since 1999.
meanmrmustard
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Assuming they had only come for guns. That's not comical, that's reality. To pretend that a person breaks into someone's home/car/place of business with a specific item(s) in mind to steal 100% of the time is foolish. Unless you are the criminal, how can you know one won't rummage? No gun is safe, unless in a safe. And then, sometimes, not even safed.
I'm happy things changed for you in 1999. Fanny packs look like belts that are digesting small mammals.
barnbwt
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Seems like we're drifting off topic... or mayhaps it's just scope creep?
I'm confoozled; did the OP ever decide on a gun, let alone get some range time with it?
As far as thieving safety, I store the bolts of most of my guns (the less popular ones) in a separate location, so even if stolen, they are less likely to be used for nefarious ends (and are less likely to be worth selling, as well). Probably not worth doing, but makes me feel better.
TCB
I'm confoozled; did the OP ever decide on a gun, let alone get some range time with it?
As far as thieving safety, I store the bolts of most of my guns (the less popular ones) in a separate location, so even if stolen, they are less likely to be used for nefarious ends (and are less likely to be worth selling, as well). Probably not worth doing, but makes me feel better.
TCB
meanmrmustard
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Quite, actually. I found my 9mm to like Federal, WWB, and oddly enough, Tula.
Last year I sighted it in and hunted deer with it (at very moderate range) using Winchester PDX 124 gr +P. Turned out to be the most accurate round I fired through it, observing average groups never exceeding 1.5 MOA off the bench. I was impressed. The doe I took with it, however, was not. She didn't make it very far.
The JR, on the other hand, is what I'd call "battle accurate" as I've not shot one benched for a true test to its performance. But, for 25 yard plinking, it keeps groups in a softball while standing with Tula. I observed no noticeable difference with brass case, so maybe a better shooter could best that.
ole farmerbuck
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I'll find out soon.I just got more Montana Gold 124 gr JHP (3750) That should last it for a while.
OP
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Wanderling
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Seems like we're drifting off topic... or mayhaps it's just scope creep?
I'm confoozled; did the OP ever decide on a gun, let alone get some range time with it?
As far as thieving safety, I store the bolts of most of my guns (the less popular ones) in a separate location, so even if stolen, they are less likely to be used for nefarious ends (and are less likely to be worth selling, as well). Probably not worth doing, but makes me feel better.
TCB
This is the OP. I think I posted earlier - practically everyone I spoke with said I need to start him on .22, so I figured so many can't be wrong and got a Marlin 795. Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet.
meanmrmustard
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Congrats. Cheap to shoot!!!
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